Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:28 pm

fans do over react. fans are stupid. fact. or passionate, or both. once calmed down im alittle more at ease. one loss so far now its dec isnt the end of the world.

by **kunilson** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:36 pm

alright the overreaction thing is bound to happen, thats what internet forums are for.....people can vent :censored:

out here and not expect any backlash. so taking an easy approach would be of use here as well as when liverpool play. thats what i try to do.

As for the stats, theyr'e interesting, but situations and times change and as "shocking" it was that arsenal went a season being undefeated, with the money being thrown about in the premierleague and the competition already being hot, why can't there be another "shocking" season where the winner loses more than usual......did u notice the pattern over the stats where when the dominant team falls, the next team to win it does it the hard way, losing and drawing more.....and with the dominance of one team being shortened year after year (chelsea just falling after 2 years) at present. who knows what will happen this season....im a betting kind of guy and i put my money on liverpool this season. but hey anyone can be wrong

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:48 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:I am amazed at times with some people who post on internet forums, the only kind of consistency most of the time is their incosistency.

How can you go from looking like we are going to win the league last week to defo not a chance this week ?

Is this same rationale (loss at a smaller club) to be applied to all of the title contenders ? Surely it needs to be does it not ? Great, cus then that means that United (Bolton) Arsenal (Boro) and our selves (Reading) are out of the title race already . . . . . .

Its a well known and much maligned theory that you see and learn more about your people in the face of a loss/defeat than you ever can following victories. It says a lot for our fans, and the word fickle definitely springs to mind, when following a defeat the same people who where eulogising about 21 goals in five games talk of slipping out of the title race after one loss.

We are not the Harlem Globe Trotters, and as such will not win every game. In fact the great sides of the seventies and eighties never won every game. Even the Invincible Arsenal actually only won 68% of their games in the infamous "invincibles" season.

Since football was invented by Robert Murdoch, otherwise known as the inception of the Premier League, the winners of the league have fared as follows:

1992/93 - Man United
Lost 6 of 42 = 14.2%
Drawn 12 of 42 = 28.5%

1993/94 - Man United
Lost 4 of 42 = 9.5%
Drawn 11 of 42 = 26.1%

1994/95 - Blackburn
Lost 7 of 42 = 16.6%
Drawn 8 of 42 = 19%

1995/96 - Man United
Lost 6 of 38 = 15.7%
Drawn 7 of 38 = 18.4%

1996/97 - Man United
Lost 5 of 38 = 13.1%
Drawn 12 of 38 = 31.5%

1997/98 - Arsenal
Lost 6 of 38 = 15.7%
Drawn 7 of 38 = 18.4%

1998/99 - Man United
Lost 3 of 38 = 7.8%
Drawn 13 of 38 = 34.2%

1999/2000 - Man United
Lost 3 of 38 = 7.8%
Drawn 7 of 38 = 18.4%

2000/01 - Man United
Lost 6 of 38 = 15.7%
Drawn 8 of 38 = 21%

2001/02 - Man United
Lost 3 of 38 = 7.8%
Drawn 9 of 38 = 23.6%

2002/03 - Man United
Lost 5 of 38 = 13.1%
Drawn 8 of 38 = 21%

2003/04 - Arsenal
Lost 0 of 38 = 0%
Drawn 12 of 38 = 31.5%

2004/05 - Chelsea
Lost 1 of 38 = 2.6%
Drawn 8 of 38 = 21%

2005/06 - Chelsea
Lost 5 of 38 = 13.1%
Drawn 4 of 38 = 10.5%

2006/07 - Man United
Lost 5 of 38 = 13.1%
Drawn 5 of 38 = 13.1%

Only once has a team gone the whole season without loss, on average the league winners have lost 4.3 games per season and drawn 8.7 games over the last 15 years.

We currently have 1 loss and 6 draws. It looks like the four draws at home to date could cause us the biggest problem in our quest for the holy grail.

Interestingly if we are to clock up as many as 11, 12 or 13 draws in one season then the only team to have done this and still won the league with at least one defeat on the clock are United, in 92/93, 93/94, 96/97 and 98/99.

With you all the way lad. :nod

Some people are just too thick for words.

by **Judge** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:03 pm

kunilson wrote:but hey anyone can be wrong

you usually are

by **LFC2007** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:28 pm

Good one Leon.

As usual, it requires a balanced post to redress the doom and gloomers (the usual idiotic, holier-than-thou suspects) who simply refuse to acknowledge any positives of any sort or in any capacity.

Whereas the mischaracterised 'rose tinted brigade' actually openly acknowledge our weaknesses/downfalls in certain matches, whilst at the same time trying to remain positive, the doom and gloomers rarely if ever appear to offer praise for positive results, it's as if they relish a defeat as another opportunity to bash Rafa and 'prove their point' - or so they think.

What's ironic is that these very same Rafa bashers were claiming he'd seen the light, when in fact, he'd not altered his methods in any way.

His decision to tinker with our formation/starting line up against Reading, was similar in proportion to the Newcastle match - a match after which Rafa apparently, according to a few D and G'ers, had seen the light.

Prior to the match starting, I don't recall seeing the doom and gloomers quibbling with the line up significantly. In fact, I recall one doom and gloomer even advocating resting Gerrard and Mascherano.

The reality is, had the ref given us a penalty, we'd likely have gone on to win the game. The doom and gloomers would then have maintained that Rafa had 'seen the light'. D and G'ers are predictable beyond.

The tactics and formation were flawed, however, ultimately it just wasn't our day. After Gerrard struck the bar, Kewell missed by a whisker, Crouch hit the post, and then missed a six-yard box sitter, you realise that it's probably not going to come.

It's not as if the fans who don't label Rafa a 'fuckwit' are not disappointed, of course they are, it's just that they'd sooner not revel in a defeat on the internet like the D and G'ers, who want to try and prove themselves right.

My view is that supporters should fundamentally be positive, acknowledging our weaknesses, but with a view to moving forward and remaining positive for the sake of the club. The D and G'ers are fuel for the tabloid media, and I don't see how calling Rafa a so and so is constructive, or positive.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:39 pm

On here as far as I can tell there is maybe two members that hate Rafa and that is Lakes & Heimdall, they just dont like him and never have but they have been consistant with their dislike of him I dont know why but that is their opinion and they are intitled to it even if we dont agree.

But there is blind faith also by some members that Rafa can do no wrong what so ever which is also stupid.

I love my son to bits but he gets on my nerves sometimes and does naughty things and I critise him and hate it when he is not this lovely little angel, it doesnt mean I love him any less I tell him off for his own good that he will learn from mistakes.

I dont want to put him up for adoption

Just want him to do whats best for him, there are two things I love in my life and thats my family and Liverpool.

I love my kid but I can critise him when he does something wrong, so there is nothing wrong in critising Rafa when he does something wrong.

None of us are perfect we all make mistakes god knows I have made plenty in my life and if I could turn some things back I would, and I bet Rafa wishes he could turn the Reading game back and would do it differently.

The players cant get off scott free either and people shouldnt just make a scape goat out of Momo when there was worst in that team on saturday infact most of the team played poor.

The feel good factor is great when we are winning ofcourse it is we scored 22 goals in the last 6 games brilliant but you dont want that to stop you want it to continue because it makes you feel great and proud of the Redmen.

When we lose like that it makes you deflated, angry, upset, hurt because you want the best for Liverpool.
I dont enjoy critising Rafa BUT he leaves himself open to it when he makes silly decisions with some team selections like the Reading game no width thats all it was.

One silly little decision like that so you ask yourself WHY? did he do that? Only he knows the answer, and it didnt work but he wont do it again he can only learn from mistakes.

But somethings happened in the last few weeks with all this palava with the Yanks that you find yourself praying for him not to fuck up incase they sack him.
So you think to yourself again why oh why didnt you just play 4-4-2 Rafa?

The Yanks may not understand english football but they understand about winning and you dont want to give them any ammo than they already seem to have.

Dont get me wrong the man is probably worried sick about tommorrow nights game and although we desperatly needed them 3 points on saturday taking off our two most important players was the correct decision.

We have tougher games coming up this week and we are not a two man team so it was up to the players left on that pitch to pull their tripe and for a place in the team tommorrow night.
And they know the score with the Yanks they should have worked their @rses off to save the managers job.

They fuckin better had tommorrow night thats for sure.

All I am trying to say is a little bit of critism because we want the best for Liverpool doesnt do any harm, Rafa got it wrong on saturday it doesnt mean I want a new manager, my son hit a kid with a stick on saturday.

It doesnt mean I want a new son either.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:43 pm

Lando sort yer chrimbo pic out lad its to big Ive only got a 15 inch moniter :laugh:

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:46 pm

Ciggy wrote:But there is blind faith also by some members that Rafa can do no wrong what so ever which is also stupid.

Name names!

But somethings happened in the last few weeks with all this palava with the Yanks that you find yourself praying for him not to fuck up incase they sack him.
So you think to yourself again why oh why didnt you just play 4-4-2 Rafa?

The Yanks may not understand english football but they understand about winning and you dont want to give them any ammo than they already seem to have.

This is my feeling as well. I'm not sure where things sit with the owners but I'm sure it hasn't all blown over by a long shot and, in that context, the Reading defeat is especially costly.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:47 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Good one Leon.

As usual, it requires a balanced post to redress the doom and gloomers (the usual idiotic, holier-than-thou suspects) who simply refuse to acknowledge any positives of any sort or in any capacity.

Whereas the mischaracterised 'rose tinted brigade' actually openly acknowledge our weaknesses/downfalls in certain matches, whilst at the same time trying to remain positive, the doom and gloomers rarely if ever appear to offer praise for positive results, it's as if they relish a defeat as another opportunity to bash Rafa and 'prove their point' - or so they think.

What's ironic is that these very same Rafa bashers were claiming he'd seen the light, when in fact, he'd not altered his methods in any way.

His decision to tinker with our formation/starting line up against Reading, was similar in proportion to the Newcastle match - a match after which Rafa apparently, according to a few D and G'ers, had seen the light.

Prior to the match starting, I don't recall seeing the doom and gloomers quibbling with the line up. In fact, I recall one doom and gloomer even advocating resting Gerrard and Mascherano.

The reality is, had the ref given us a penalty, we'd likely have gone on to win the game. The doom and gloomers would then have maintained that Rafa had 'seen the light'. D and G'ers are predictable beyond.

The tactics and formation were flawed, however, ultimately it just wasn't our day. After Gerrard struck the bar, Kewell missed by a whisker, Crouch hit the post, and then missed a six-yard box sitter, you realise that it's probably not going to come.

It's not as if the fans who don't label Rafa a 'fuckwit' are not disappointed, of course they are, it's just that they'd sooner not revel in a defeat on the internet like the D and G'ers, who want to try and prove themselves right.

My view is that supporters should fundamentally be positive, acknowledging our weaknesses, but with a view to moving forward and remaining positive for the sake of the club. The D and G'ers are fuel for the tabloid media, and I don't see how calling Rafa a so and so is constructive, or positive.

As far as I am aware I was the only one to advocate resting Gerrard and Torres, and I have made no doom and gloom posts. I said before the season and again after our loss to Reading that I still think we can win the league, and nothing has happened yet to change my mind on that.

Rafa got it wrong tactically, and with the team he picked against Reading. Thats not a doom and gloom post thats my opinion.

Posted: Dec. 08 2007,19:16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (heimdall @ Dec. 08 2007,19:13)
Quote (s@int @ Dec. 08 2007,19:09)
Quote (dward @ Dec. 08 2007,19:07)
Great. Now I dare anyone to say truthfully that they still believe we will win the league.

I still think we will Dward, we just need a good result against the mancs and we are back in it.

ermm surely we also need Arsenal to start loosing, and actually loose quite a few. There is no way we win the league this year not with that f**kwit Rafa in charge

Arsenal will start to lose games mate, they will lose half their team to the African nations cup! I would rather be chasing Arsenal than trying to catch the mancs. Thats why the game next week is so important.
---------------------------------

Just to be clear the "f**kwit Rafa " comment is not mine.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:51 pm

s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Good one Leon.

As usual, it requires a balanced post to redress the doom and gloomers (the usual idiotic, holier-than-thou suspects) who simply refuse to acknowledge any positives of any sort or in any capacity.

Whereas the mischaracterised 'rose tinted brigade' actually openly acknowledge our weaknesses/downfalls in certain matches, whilst at the same time trying to remain positive, the doom and gloomers rarely if ever appear to offer praise for positive results, it's as if they relish a defeat as another opportunity to bash Rafa and 'prove their point' - or so they think.

What's ironic is that these very same Rafa bashers were claiming he'd seen the light, when in fact, he'd not altered his methods in any way.

His decision to tinker with our formation/starting line up against Reading, was similar in proportion to the Newcastle match - a match after which Rafa apparently, according to a few D and G'ers, had seen the light.

Prior to the match starting, I don't recall seeing the doom and gloomers quibbling with the line up. In fact, I recall one doom and gloomer even advocating resting Gerrard and Mascherano.

The reality is, had the ref given us a penalty, we'd likely have gone on to win the game. The doom and gloomers would then have maintained that Rafa had 'seen the light'. D and G'ers are predictable beyond.

The tactics and formation were flawed, however, ultimately it just wasn't our day. After Gerrard struck the bar, Kewell missed by a whisker, Crouch hit the post, and then missed a six-yard box sitter, you realise that it's probably not going to come.

It's not as if the fans who don't label Rafa a 'fuckwit' are not disappointed, of course they are, it's just that they'd sooner not revel in a defeat on the internet like the D and G'ers, who want to try and prove themselves right.

My view is that supporters should fundamentally be positive, acknowledging our weaknesses, but with a view to moving forward and remaining positive for the sake of the club. The D and G'ers are fuel for the tabloid media, and I don't see how calling Rafa a so and so is constructive, or positive.

As far as I am aware I was the only one to advocate resting Gerrard and Torres, and I have made no doom and gloom posts. I said before the season and again after our loss to Reading that I still think we can win the league, and nothing has happened yet to change my mind on that.

Rafa got it wrong tactically, and with the team he picked against Reading. Thats not a doom and gloom post thats my opinion.

Posted: Dec. 08 2007,19:16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (heimdall @ Dec. 08 2007,19:13)
Quote (s@int @ Dec. 08 2007,19:09)
Quote (dward @ Dec. 08 2007,19:07)
Great. Now I dare anyone to say truthfully that they still believe we will win the league.

I still think we will Dward, we just need a good result against the mancs and we are back in it.

ermm surely we also need Arsenal to start loosing, and actually loose quite a few. There is no way we win the league this year not with that f**kwit Rafa in charge

Arsenal will start to lose games mate, they will lose half their team to the African nations cup! I would rather be chasing Arsenal than trying to catch the mancs. Thats why the game next week is so important.
---------------------------------

Just to be clear the "f**kwit Rafa " comment is not mine.

See highlighted parts + ....

Link

I'm aware you are no doom and gloomer.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:57 pm

Better, Ciggs?

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:01 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Better, Ciggs?

HA Ha no post it above your sig or under it the page is dead wide

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:06 pm

Women! Never f*cking happy... :no

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:10 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Women! Never f*cking happy...

I dont mind a bit of girth :;):

Oops back to topic

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:12 pm

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