Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:43 pm

I was looking at the scapegoat thread, I didn't go into it, but I wondered what people feel is the biggest contribution to our faltering season.

Games (2007/8)

01-06 : P6 W5 D1 L0 F16 A2
07-12 : P6 W2 D3 L1 F6 A4
13-18 : P6 W2 D3 L1 F8 A7
19-24 : P6 W5 D0 L1 F22 A4

Our recent form is pretty good, however two of those wins were home games we had to win in the Champions League and the other three were home wins over lowly Fulham and Bolton and an away win over misfiring Newcastle which prompted "The Fixture List" option.

Rafa's Tactics & Formations

Playing funny formations with two holding in midfield, players out of position and of course infuriating substitutions. Is taking off your best player and giving up after 70 mins against a mid-table side a good tactic? Is leaving little in midfield to control it a good tactic?

Rotation Of Players

The now infamous policy of changing the team virtually every game, resting players even those who are so young and of course not every player is subject to rotation so how exactly does the policy work? (if it does)

Players/Squad That Isn't Good Enough

I'm sure we could all vent our spleen and name a whole load who aren't flavour of the month or we hate regardless. Rafa has spent plenty on players in his three seasons in charge, isn't it about time we had 18-22 players who are all good enough? Maybe we simply accept that we have over £100m worth of players, excluding Gerrard and Carra, that aren't good enough. How many millions will make us good enough?

The Yank Owners

Putting pressure on Rafa? Have they given him enough backing or maybe too much? Are they the disruptive influence or maybe they think like some of us that Rafa has had plenty of money and still isn't producing the goods because of his various tactics and policies. He'd already invested plenty in the squad before they arrived, Torres alone cost more than the entire Reading XI.

The Fixture List

On the one hand it gave us Derby, Sunderland and Birmingham before the end of September, on the other hand it gives us an away Premiership game before a crucial Champions League tie and then the toughest Premiership home game of any season. Is it simply the way the games have fallen? Making us think we were doing better than we really are before landing a ton of the brown stuff on our heads? Don't forget we have a run of away games at the mancs, goners and Chelski in the new year that would probably scupper any remaining title hope anyway. If we'd performed better against Marseille and qualified already then maybe we wouldn't be needing to win this game.

But in truth the fixtures have been ok so far, none of the defeats are down to anything but our own fault or failings

Misfortune

Refs decisions, injuries and so on. We're without Pennant, Alonso and Agger so I'm sure that forms an excuse. The ref has given some dodgy decisions against us, but haven't we also had a few in our favour this season? Kung Fu Kuyt, Lescott's penalty appeals, the odd dubious award of free-kicks and penalties to us and against us is all part of a season.

What is it that is hampering our progress? We are SEVEN points behind Arsenal in the league, face a do or die mission in Marseille only 72 hours after a defeat at Reading and We face a tough trip to Chelski in the Carling Cup QF. And while we've only lost three games all season, we have dropped FIFTEEN points in the league after only fifteen games. In truth we've only played two of the top teams, we're one point better off this season compared to last season's corresponding fixtures when we managed a disappointing 68 points come the end of the season.

Things may not be that bad, but how bad do they have to be? Our title challenge is fading, our Champions League campaign is in the balance and we're not in any cup finals yet. I guess you could put the old rose tinted specs on and say we're still in four competitions, but how in them are we? Barely one foot? Arguably finger tip grip and slipping

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:13 pm

Players/squad is good but not good enough IMHO, we are nearly there but when our key players have an off day there doesn't seem enough quality to fill the gap. We need another top striker and/or a creative player desperately. When you are more worried about certain players getting injured rather than how well they play you know you are short!

Over a season I think you make your own luck to a great extent, so moaning in one game about lack of luck is ok, but taken over a season the best teams are there or there abouts.

I think we have been lucky with the fixture list this season (until this week), we just haven't made the most of our luck.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:28 am

I'm not really sure that our season is faltering. Despite the loss today, we're still very much in the title race, and still involved in all the cup comps.

Before the season started, I said that the squad was still a little short of depth for a Prem title, and our recent run of good results hasn't changed that. Perhaps just as pertinently, we have several players in the squad that are injury prone (Aurelio, Kewell, Alonso), so even though we have a lot of options on paper, it's very rare that they're all available for selection.

The main failing remains up front, as we just don't look even half as threatening when Torres isn't fit. It doesn't help that Aurelio and Kewell, for me our two best options for left midfield, have been almost permanently injured in the last year, so maybe there's a spot that wants filling there too. I'm not really sure we learned anything conclusive about Hobbs against Reading today, so maybe there's still a vacancy for a centre back.

I do wish Rafa would find a formula and stick to it, but that's more me sometimes disagreeing with his selections than him necessarily being to blame for anything. Let's not forget that we're only just getting to the stage where the failed signings of a certain Mr Houllier are off the wage bill, but every season the passengers are being weeded out, and eventually I think rotation of a universally strong squad will get us to where Rafa wants us to be. Right now, there's still that big drop off in quality in several areas once the gaffer leans on his squad players, and until that changes disappointing days like today will happen from time to time.

by **roberto green** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:42 am

its a load of :censored:

to say were still involved in the title chase if arsenal win tomorrow we are ten points behind and man u are 6 points ahead, can you really see both of them slipping up more than we would the rest of the season.

Il ike Rafa i really do but he has to swallow his pride and admit that f!uciking about with the team and formation just doesn't work in the prem.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:58 am

roberto green wrote:its a load of to say were still involved in the title chase if arsenal win tomorrow we are ten points behind and man u are 6 points ahead, can you really see both of them slipping up more than we would the rest of the season.

Il ike Rafa i really do but he has to swallow his pride and admit that f!uciking about with the team and formation just doesn't work in the prem.

Beat Man U, and it's still game on for the league as far as I'm concerned.

I'm absolutely adamant that Arsenal will trip up at some point soon, and a couple of weeks of poor results for them brings that lead right down.

by **roberto green** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:06 am

ivor_the_injun wrote:
roberto green wrote:its a load of to say were still involved in the title chase if arsenal win tomorrow we are ten points behind and man u are 6 points ahead, can you really see both of them slipping up more than we would the rest of the season.

Il ike Rafa i really do but he has to swallow his pride and admit that f!uciking about with the team and formation just doesn't work in the prem.

Beat Man U, and it's still game on for the league as far as I'm concerned.

I'm absolutely adamant that Arsenal will trip up at some point soon, and a couple of weeks of poor results for them brings that lead right down.

Dont get me wrong liverpool have really looked good sometimes this season but they still have a tendancy to fu!k up.

I hope your right about man u and arsenal but i just can't see it.it;s just so frustrating,i still think were short a couple of quality players short of getting there.

And Riise must go the lad is a joke and he is :censored:

!ng shooting from everywhere.

by **peterc1992** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:57 am

ivor_the_injun wrote:
roberto green wrote:its a load of to say were still involved in the title chase if arsenal win tomorrow we are ten points behind and man u are 6 points ahead, can you really see both of them slipping up more than we would the rest of the season.

Il ike Rafa i really do but he has to swallow his pride and admit that f!uciking about with the team and formation just doesn't work in the prem.

Beat Man U, and it's still game on for the league as far as I'm concerned.

I'm absolutely adamant that Arsenal will trip up at some point soon, and a couple of weeks of poor results for them brings that lead right down.

agree,still think we can win the league no problem but we are not the best team in the league.I was annoyed to see that wen we had torres,gerrard and carrgher off,we had no real treat or game changer on the pitch at all.We need more big money signings.United have ronaldo,tevez,rooney...and then the hav the likes of giggs scholes carrick anderson nani...and at the back they hav vidic(solid) anf ferdinand.

We have Torres and Gerrard,and we have some other very good players but not much of them can turn the game on its head. without torres we have no really clinical finisher,Crouch is good with his feet,but hes weak and dispite his height he cant win anything.Voronin is good mentaly,but he nothing else oustandin about him.Kuyt has to be one of the worst finishers in the league but he works his socks off.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:50 am

whether its one reason or a mixture of reasons, the fact is rafa is the manager, he built the team, he picks the team and he picks the way we play, and he gets it wrong more often than he should, and that will not win us the league.

as for arsenal slipping up, lets not forget that as a club they went unbeaten in the league a few seasons ago so the have shown it is possible to not slip up.

to put it simply once again rafa has picked a team with one eye on the next game and he falls down here too often, i dont believe this team was picked tactically to beat reading, this team was thrown together in the hope we would win

by **Kukilon** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:53 am

It's not Momo fault but he needs to be sold. I love his attitude but when you can't pass better than a five year old then you should be doing something else than playing footie.

Rafa doesn't care about the leauge or else he wouldn't give up after 70 minutes or :censored:

around with the formation as he did or rotate when everything finally has started to go well. He is responsible for us not having a shot at the league this year. Playing Momo against a team like Reading is also strange... against Arsenal or Barca sure.

by **bigmick** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:15 am

I really do feel that sissoko is undeserving of his scapegoat status right now. Even those who advocate the rotation "Rafa style" system would probably accept that some players are more able to cope with sporadic appearances in the first team than others. Lucas I would imagine could not play for a month and will then slip into the team unnoticed, neat and tidy with his distribution, triangles for wall passes etc. Others however, "confidence" players as they always used to be known seem to have their whole demeanor damaged by non-appearance. Sissoko falls firmly into that bracket for me.

He may or may not ultimately be good enough for a regular starting berth in the team, but he is a very good player in his own right. Hi spass to Kewell near the end of the game yesterday, first time and floated perfectly into Harry's path was not the pass of a dummy. Sissoko can play, don't worry about that and when he does leave, many will be surprised as to how good he'll be.

Reason i don't like rotation "Rafa style" number fifty three: It makes no concession whatsoever to the notion of confidence players.

by **mantony2552** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:55 am

Come on there is no-one to blame for that f uckin pathetic show against reading but benitez. What a way to throw back in everybody's faces the support we showed for him last week, p rick. To give up on a match after 65-70 mins is pathetic and disrepectful from a liverpool manager, shanks would be rolling in his grave. That is just not the liverpool way, complete and utter disrespect for the fans. Well we might as well kiss the f uckin premiership good-bye cos' how much will that have buoyed the mancs up before next weekend, and what happens if we don't beat marseille then what the hell will we be playing for at the end of the season...the carling cup maybe. I mean to leave that big pile of s hit sissoko on and take your inspirational captain off defies logic, and lets not mention torres our ONLY striker capable of scoring goals. But then again all the rafa fans will come out and defend him to the death, well the guy just p issed your gratitude away. Please tell me how many rafa supporters are satisfied with settling for a defeat in the premiership like the manager seems quite happy to accept. He's got total disregard of the english league and cups, he's only interested in making himself look good in europe. I can see why gillet and hicks are so p issed off with him, why should they give him money for transfers when he underuses the 20million pound summer acquisition like he does, still we've got voronin and sissoko ha. Forget Istanbul and open your peepers we are never going to win the premiership with this guy cos he simply doesn't rate it as highly as the champions league. Thanks rafa you really make me regret showing my support for you last week. Total tripe.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:32 am

mantony2552 wrote:Come on there is no-one to blame for that f uckin pathetic show against reading but benitez. What a way to throw back in everybody's faces the support we showed for him last week, p rick. To give up on a match after 65-70 mins is pathetic and disrepectful from a liverpool manager, shanks would be rolling in his grave. That is just not the liverpool way, complete and utter disrespect for the fans. Well we might as well kiss the f uckin premiership good-bye cos' how much will that have buoyed the mancs up before next weekend, and what happens if we don't beat marseille then what the hell will we be playing for at the end of the season...the carling cup maybe. I mean to leave that big pile of s hit sissoko on and take your inspirational captain off defies logic, and lets not mention torres our ONLY striker capable of scoring goals. But then again all the rafa fans will come out and defend him to the death, well the guy just p issed your gratitude away. Please tell me how many rafa supporters are satisfied with settling for a defeat in the premiership like the manager seems quite happy to accept. He's got total disregard of the english league and cups, he's only interested in making himself look good in europe. I can see why gillet and hicks are so p issed off with him, why should they give him money for transfers when he underuses the 20million pound summer acquisition like he does, still we've got voronin and sissoko ha. Forget Istanbul and open your peepers we are never going to win the premiership with this guy cos he simply doesn't rate it as highly as the champions league. Thanks rafa you really make me regret showing my support for you last week. Total tripe.

the newbie speaketh the truth

by **bigmick** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:34 am

Hmm I'm not so sure Peewee to be totally honest. To go from "showing his support" last week, to a post like that is indicative of a highly changeable character, or something entirely different. I wjust wonder what the "Man" stands for in Mantony?

by **Valbuena** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:37 am

Hello Fans of Liverpool !!

I am a Marseille's fan and i hope you will go the same game against us and loose in our stadium !! We wait you and if you dont know the Velodrome Stadium come on !
We 'll show you why we are the first public in Europe :eyebrow

by **mantony2552** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:48 am

Its my name you retard michael antony. Oh i'm sorry perhaps you're better at explaining the unexplainable (rafa's tactics today) seeming you have 3000 posts, wow that makes you such a better fan than me, i must bow to your superior knowledge. I didn't say sack him either, I just meant he invites the criticism onto himself. If he's quite happy to accept the praise, he should also accept the criticism, or is he immune to it with fans like you so far up his a rse. So are you happy that he gave up on a premiership match 65 mins in, you must be. I supported him because I thought the americans were in the wrong, however i'm f uckin incensed today and i will criticise him if i see fit, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it you c ock sucking mother f ucker!

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