Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dalglish** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:34 am

ivor_the_injun wrote:Oh, and Carson's howler shouldn't be used as a mask to our failings. It was far from the difference between the two sides. They could've had 5 or 6.

Hiya mate,

I agree with your analogy but we both know that Carson will be held up as the sacrificial lamb to the slaughter by either the press or the FA or possibly both.

McClaren's a joke and the reason why so many fans have gone off the boil when it comes to England. Liverpool hasn't exactly been a hotbed of England support for many and varied reasons but with his appointment the light went off in Liverpool as far as England were concerned.

Maclaren's selection tonight was baffling to say the least. With none of his established back 4 available he opts to put Carson in behind Sol Campbell when Sol's teammate at Pompey, James is sat on the bench !

And then to compound the problem he selects Fat Frank and Stevie AGAIN .........and has to sacrifice a forward to accommadate him !

4-4-3 my :censored:

! It was more like 4-5-1 until the introduction of Defoe !

by **Scottbot** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:40 am

Just got back from Wembley. First England game i've been to see since 1989 and the last. Don't think i'll be going again. McLaren came for the draw, so did Croatia but it all went to pot the moment he put young Carson in goal. What the fook was he thinking? He's got a young goal-keeper in a bit of form with 2 caps to his name or he has a capable 35 year-old who has seen it and done it for 15 years. It's a massive game and in big games like this you play your experienced players. It could take Carson years to get over this one. First half performance was terrible, Crouch tried gamely but he was a sitting duck up there on his own, Campbell and Lescott looked like they had never even met (how McLaren must have wished Carra was in his 11 tonight), Bridge didn't look fit, Stevie tried but nothing he did came off. Second half was better although that was the softest penalty you will ever see. Beckham brought a bit of gusto and purpose to the right hand side and Crouch toook his goal superbly. What really annoyed me tonight, it wasn't the formation, the soft defending, the failure to really press the ball or the way Croatia carved us apart. It was the way we played once they scored the 3rd goal, there were still 13mins plus added time to play, no neeed to hit the panic buttons but panic they did. It was like watching kids play. I thought i was at the American civil war watching the cavalry charge. 'Everyone get in the box and i'll punt it up there at the first opportunity'. unbelievable.

I'm gutted England won't be in the tournament but i until tonight i still thought that deep down i was a pretty passionate England fan when it came to it, i've always been club before country but it does kind of annoy me a bit the way so many on here glorify 'not liking' England BUT i realised tonight that i don't really care anymore.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:46 am

Scottbot wrote:McLaren came for the draw.

I don't think he did tbh. We began the game with a very high defensive line, and tried to force play early on.

I think our initial intent was to go for the win, then it went t!ts.

Agree with the rest.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:53 am

'm gutted England won't be in the tournament but i until tonight i still thought that deep down i was a pretty passionate England fan when it came to it, i've always been club before country but it does kind of annoy me a bit the way so many on here glorify 'not liking' England BUT i realised tonight that i don't really care anymore.

Its been a long time since I cared.

by **skatesy** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:24 am

Steve McClaren is going to be the one to take most of the blame and, as a result, will be the main scapegoat for England as to why they did not qualify. The problem is a lot deeper than Steve McClaren. Despite the fact that injures surely was a factor, the amount of talented players that England has is right up there with the likes of the other major football countries. There is no reason why the English National team is generally struggling so much. They have the talent at their disposal. There are teams out there that are doing more with a lot less

by **maguskwt** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:51 am

Unbelieveable! I said he would resign first thing in the morning... but surprise surprise...

MClaren insists he won't resign after England debacle

England coach Steve McClaren insists he will not resign despite England's abject failure to qualify for Euro 2008.

After the 3-2 defeat at home to Croatia which saw Russia qualify for next summer's tournament ahead of his side, McClaren expressed his regret and offered an apology to the fans.

But the former Middlesbrough manager firmly insisted he would not stand down as national team boss.

He told BBC News 24: 'I'm not stepping down. Ultimately I take responsibility and I accept that. It was my job to get us qualified and I failed to do that.

'I don't want to discuss my future at the present moment. I am trying to get over that result.

'We feel exactly the same (as the fans), believe you me, we know how they are feeling. You should see the dressing room, they are so disappointed to have let so many people down.'

He added on Sky News: 'I pick the team and said over the 12 games I would be judged and I will be.'

Asked if he would resign, McClaren said: 'No. I have no intention of doing that.

'Obviously it's not for me to decide, I'm not discussing anything at this present moment.

'I am not looking to the future, I am thinking about this game, what could have been, what wasn't, and really how we get over this.'

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:36 am

If he resigns, he gets nothing.

If they sack him, he'll get some money.

Good riddance either way.

by **Tottenham Dave** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:56 am

Scottbot wrote:Just got back from Wembley. First England game i've been to see since 1989 and the last. Don't think i'll be going again. McLaren came for the draw, so did Croatia but it all went to pot the moment he put young Carson in goal. What the fook was he thinking? He's got a young goal-keeper in a bit of form with 2 caps to his name or he has a capable 35 year-old who has seen it and done it for 15 years. It's a massive game and in big games like this you play your experienced players. It could take Carson years to get over this one. First half performance was terrible, Crouch tried gamely but he was a sitting duck up there on his own, Campbell and Lescott looked like they had never even met (how McLaren must have wished Carra was in his 11 tonight), Bridge didn't look fit, Stevie tried but nothing he did came off. Second half was better although that was the softest penalty you will ever see. Beckham brought a bit of gusto and purpose to the right hand side and Crouch toook his goal superbly. What really annoyed me tonight, it wasn't the formation, the soft defending, the failure to really press the ball or the way Croatia carved us apart. It was the way we played once they scored the 3rd goal, there were still 13mins plus added time to play, no neeed to hit the panic buttons but panic they did. It was like watching kids play. I thought i was at the American civil war watching the cavalry charge. 'Everyone get in the box and i'll punt it up there at the first opportunity'. unbelievable.

I'm gutted England won't be in the tournament but i until tonight i still thought that deep down i was a pretty passionate England fan when it came to it, i've always been club before country but it does kind of annoy me a bit the way so many on here glorify 'not liking' England BUT i realised tonight that i don't really care anymore.

My first England game was in '88 I think, Wembley, we beat Turkey 8 - 0!
Not a bad start.

I was only 9, so it was amazing.

Last game was Brazil in the 1-1 for the opening.

Been to too many painful matches, I think Argentina in '98 was the worst though, we were excellent, very close and it was a long trip home full of memories of French/Algerians throwing bottles at us.

I wasn't there tonight, watched it in Brixton with a gutted crowd, but I can't say I wont be back to see them again.

Must be a fool, but next opportunity I'll be back.

Credit to Croatia.
You slags.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:12 am

England have always been useless in modern tournaments, with the exception of Euro 96 and Italia 90.

Look at this:

Euro 88 - Lost every game
Italia 90 - Lost on pens, semis
Euro 92 - Didn't win a game
USA 94 - Did not qualify
Euro 96 - Lost on pens, semis
France 98 - Second round
Euro 2000 - First round
Korea/Japan 2002 - Quarter finals
Euro 2004 - Lost on pens, quarters
Germany 2006 - Lost on pens, quarters
Euro 2008 - Did not qualify

Pretty unimpressive for a team of "superstars"

by **NiftyNeil** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:04 am

The Manhattan Project wrote:England have always been useless in modern tournaments, with the exception of Euro 96 and Italia 90.

Look at this:

Euro 88 - Lost every game
Italia 90 - Lost on pens, semis
Euro 92 - Didn't win a game
USA 94 - Did not qualify
Euro 96 - Lost on pens, semis
France 98 - Second round
Euro 2000 - First round
Korea/Japan 2002 - Quarter finals
Euro 2004 - Lost on pens, quarters
Germany 2006 - Lost on pens, quarters
Euro 2008 - Did not qualify

Pretty unimpressive for a team of "superstars"

That's a bit OTT. With the exception of Euros 88, 92 and 2000, then we haven't done bad. We've reached the quarter finals of the last 3 tournaments we've been in - going out twice on pens and the other was against the eventual winners. Also, we were undefeated until those games too.

I think England need need to take a chance now. Look at what other countries are doing. The seems to be the belief that we need to appoint a proven manager for England, and in our case, there is no-one English with a proven track record. This means appointing a foreigner. If you look at other countries in Europe, they seem to be picking former players with great reputations and giving them a chance.

Rudi Voller - Germany manager, first appointment, got them to WC Final.

Jurgen Klinsman - Germany manager, first appointment, WC semi finalists.

Frank Rijkaard - Holland Manager, first appointment, Euro 2000 semis finalist.

I would go on, but I've got to go to work - I'm sure you get my drift. Give Shearer a chance.

by **matrix** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:16 am

Steve McClaren your a fuc.king joke mate, you will get the sack this morning...

take nothing away from Croatia but england were just bloody awful...

that line up give me a break :laugh:

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:18 am

McClaren should go without a doubt shouldt of been there in the first place. But would we have qualified under a different manager i would still say no . You can have the greatest manager in the world but if the players are not good enough end of . Barring a couple of world class players we have got in the team you only had to look at the options we had last night on the bench.
Defoe and Bent two strikers who cant even get in there own team i think theve played about 13 games between them this season. Great options if you two main strikers are injured , yer right what a complete joke.
At the end of the day were simply not good enough

by **Ciggy** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:24 am

The only good thing that has come out of this is that useless tw@t has been sacked, I cant bare the man.
I dont know who gave him the job but who ever did needs shooting, I am no England fan but would have liked them to be in the comp.
Just shows you how over rated and over payed english talent is.
They can blame foreigners all they like but at the end of the day its themselves that are useless.

by **Raj_Xedos** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:33 am

There are a number of excuses that people will use....

1) the pitch - sorry were croatia playing on a different pitch??
2) key players out - so the alledged best league in the world on have 11 top players huh?
3) we went for the draw - thats always been mclarens strategy.

The performance was awful, no one can say that we did enough to win the game because i dont feel we did...hats off to Croatia, they had nothing to lose.

Errors made

1) Experience - Why was Beckham not playing?? He is a world class player no doubt about it. When it matters he will lead by example.

2) Why didnt we bring on Hargreaves at 2-2 if we were going to shut up shop.

3) Mclaren - can anyone answer me this?

'On what merit did Mclaren get the job?'

by **metalhead** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:37 am

Mourinho's odds to replace mctw@t is 3/1 :oops:

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