Liverpool FC Forum

bigmick wrote:Yes I'm with Bamaga. LFC is very eloquent as always, but therefore the post is simply eloquent b0ll0cks I would seriously suggest that after the best part of four years of Rafa's tenure, if we only posess players which are so one dimensional that they can only play when at Home, when not on the counter attack etc then we would need to to question his signings and probably get rid of them at the very least, and probably him.

Good players, and good teams adapt. They have to, because the opposition constantly adapts to combat you. To suggest that Crouch can't play in a counter attacking team is simply incorrect in my opinion. Masherano can't surge forward and score very often, neither does Alonso but then neither do Flamini, nor Carrick. This is like a throwback to the utter nonsense we had earlier in the season when Torres was supposedly less effective against teams which defend deep (it really does defy belief knowing what we know now that Voronin and Kuyt could be considered more potent than Crouch and Torres, against any type of defensive line up you could care to mention).

Somebody summed up very well what I believe on another thread about three days ago but it got lost beofre I could pin it up. The poster (and many apologies but I can't remember who it was) urged rafa to allow the players to be stars. He implored the manager to let the players grab the headlines, so we could all marvel at how good the team was rather than every game be totally preoccupied with the manager demonstrating his supposed tactial genius. This to me is such a salient point and exactly why I find this obsessive search for the "horses for courses", the total folly of mass rotation so absolutely infuriating.

Players aren't chess pieces they are people, and as people they form a team. As we all know, a committed team of people can always achieve more than any bunch of talented individuals. The whole way the club is run, from where people sit to eat their pasta, where they go on the plane to and from the game, who rooms with who etc etc should be about building a team mentality. It follows as sure as eggs is eggs that the way the manager treats the players, and of course the process by which selection of the eleven to start each match is arrived at should also be about building up that team mentality. Mass rotation Rafa style does exactly the opposite.

We've tried it in a different way this season. Rather than mass rotating in every competition, we've mass rotated in everything except the league. This has actualy meant we have still mass rotated in everything however because to get back to somewhere near our league line up, we've had to mass rotate away from our Champions League/Carling Cup line-ups. We are hanging on in the Champions League by the skin of our teeth having already lost twice, we are seventh in the League ("but we are unbeaten" yes I know) despite having a very easy start to the campaign. We have half our first choice eleven injured or recovering from injuries and previous to last nights win against a relative pub team (which actually beat us a couple of weeks back), we were playing with no fluency or cohesion whatsoever. I am at a total loss to think of a single benefit, however infinitessimally miniscule of the policy of mass rotation Rafa style so far this season.

Bamaga man wrote:

s@int wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

bigmick wrote:So there we go, sooner or later we were bound to play well and we did. Granted they were absolutely garbage but we absolutely hammered them.

Anybody who has any doubts about how sh!te we were playing recently however, would do well to remember they turned us over a couple of weeks back. We have been through a dark tunnel, but hopefully there is light at the end of it now and it isn't just somebody with a Woodbine.

So what is the chance? Well, given the run of games we have coming up, we have a real opportunity now at last to get something going. Anybody who didn't play tonight can hardly moan about not playing in the next game, everybody who did play did OK so lets turn the same team out in the next match. That's right, the same eleven that started this one.

Even the big guns can be benched if approaching fitness and can fight their way back into the team. This in my personal opinion is our last opportunity of this season to launch ourselves. We had something going earlier in the season but totally lost the plot, please please please lets not make the same mistakes again.

The same team next game. No restings, rotations, revolutions, re-jigs or re-hashes, just the same team. No 4-5-1's, 3-5-2's or anything similar. It's Fulham at Home I think so we'll win the game anyway. Bring your Kewell's and your Torres's on in the second half and if they uproot trees, start them in the following game. If they don't stick with this one. By the time Man Utd arrive at Anfield we need to be absolutely fizzing. With a settled team.

Rotation is more acute in certain positions than others. One of the reasons we rotate more than others in certain positions (IMHO) is that we don't have enough complete players in our squad, by 'complete players', I mean players who can adapt to any given match. For example, Crouch lacks pace, and therefore is likely to be more ineffective playing on the counter attack, which invariably is an attacking scenario we are more likely to face away from home. This is why, when Torres is injured, or has been injured, I would have liked to have seen Babel playing up front. Take the Manc's or Arsenal, virtually all of their attacking players possess a quality touch and pace, and therefore they don't have this limitation, e.g. Adebayor who is a sort of pacier and more powerful version of Crouch. Any of their players can play in any match. Another limitation, concerning the balance of the team (not really pertinent or linked to rotation atm), is Gerrard being our only all round midfielder. Alonso lacks pace, Sissoko has pace, but lacks the ability to surge forward and score, predominantly because his touch isn't good enough and his passing isn't brilliant. Mascherano is excellent at securing the middle of the park, distributing the ball within a short radius of himself, tackling, defensive vision etc.. but again, doesn't really possess an attacking edge to his game. Similar limitations exist in our defence. Carragher isn't particularly pacey, and not the most elegant on the ball. This means that, against teams who possess pace up front, we cannot play a really high line and press high up the pitch. Arsenal and the manc's have pace at the back, who are also good solid defenders, but because they have defenders with pace and craft on the ball, they can play higher up and press the opposition. We have no real option but to play Hyypia and Agger in defence atm, as Agger is injured. As is the same in our midfield with Mascherano and Gerrard. The rotation point really comes in up front and on the wings at the moment. Our wingers aren't complete wingers, e.g. Babel has, pace and power, but perhaps lacks the deft touch we need in certain scenarios at home where the ball needs to be thread through the eye of a needle. Benayoun, however, does possess this ability and craft, but lacks pace and power. Therefore, against an opposition at home such as Fulham (who are likely to come looking for a draw) Benayoun would be the more effective option. The Mancs have Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani and Tevez, who all possess pace, power, an incredible touch and guile. Therefore, they are able to play effectively against any team, meaning, they are likely to be rotated less.

Basically, I don't agree with your point that we should stick with the same team solely on the grounds of cohesion. I believe that, because we have mainly incomplete players up front and on the wings, as mentioned above, we must pick the correct player for the correct scenario. In my view, this means playing Benayoun, Crouch (who is also deft on the deck), alongside one of Voronin or Kuyt - probably Voronin as there isn't much to choose atm. Voronin is more nimble than Kuyt so I'd give Voronin the nod on this occasion. On the left, I'd play Kewell or Aurelio depending on their fitness levels.


*Disclamer*

All of the above is IMHO, TMK, FWIW and FAO of Big Mick.

Good post

Good post S@int, what are you on ? 

Its another soppy reason, and better still another desperate theory as to why we NEED rotation.

No offence LFC2007 but its bollox IMHO.

The Manhattan Project wrote:Yep.

Same team and we need to attack the frick out of them.