Liverpool FC Forum

Fowler_E7 wrote:

Leonmc0708 wrote:Personally I would like to see Kewell keep coming off the bench a few more weeks. Three or four more cameos yet, gradually longer to test the fitness.

Then when he scores he gets a start.

Thats what we need from him, and if he thinks this is how he gets his game, then he will go all out to do it.

u reckon, coz i think he should get his chance when he starts creating things for others as well as being a goal threat as the role of a winger is to both IMO. In fact you no what i would probably agree with you if hadnt been for the fact that we have been so poor down the left wing since Harry been out of the side, thats why he must return to the starting 11 as soon as possible as he is still(unfortuantly) the best option we have at Left wing.

Leonmc0708 wrote:

bigmick wrote:

Leonmc0708 wrote:Bit melodramatic for me that BigMick mate.

We won, it was coming, we have 6/7 games before United that are all winnable.

I definately agree with you on the winnable fixtures Leon. For me though, the Fulham game is a bit like the Derby one earlier, we could probably put you in goal mate and still win.

Perfect oppotunity to rotate then surely? If we were Arsenal or Man Utd who are flying along then yes, if you are us though and just coming off the back of a dodgy spell, no. Crouch has just played for the first time in a bit and scored twice, how about he plays and scores another couple. "Four goals in his last two games" they'll be saying, and the big lad will be flying. Does he need to be sat down now to give Kuyt a game? Does he need a rest? Similarly Benayoun, off the back of a hat-trick and a really top performance (looks like I'm going to be well and truly wrong about him if he continues like that, fair play to him for ramming it down my throat), does he need to be moved aside so Gerrard can move to the right and we can play Sissoko or Lucas in the centre? Does Arbeloa need to be spun back out of the team as quick as he was rotated into so as to give Finnan a game?

I'm not saying the team which played tonight would be my first choice eleven, far from it. They did the business though, and we've got to draw a line somewhere and say "we start from here". After an 8-0 is as good a chance as we are ever going to get, particularly with winnable games coming up.

Five or six rotations against Fulham and we'll still win. It will be a massive opportunity wasted though in my opinion.

If he did start with the same 11, and we never got the result, then peewee and all the passemistic whoppers on here would be callign Rafa for all kinds cus he never played tom dic.k and harry.

why pick on me ya big pleb   

i am not a doom and gloom merchant or a whopper, i am realistic, you should try it some thime

bigmick wrote:We probably posted at the same time E7 and hopefully I've answered a couple of your points in the one above.

yeah u answered most my questions in the your previous post that we typing at the same time  i notice how you never replied to my question "if we play the same team and win, would you leave torres and kewell out again?" talk about ducking the difficult ones 

Leonmc0708 wrote:EVERYONE knows peewee though of it and has been telling Rafa for years.

yeah and don't you be trying to cling my coat tails hoping to get some credit.

well you all mocked my letter and here we are 3 years later all recognising what i wrote

Fowler_E7 wrote: i notice how you never replied to my question "if we play the same team and win, would you leave torres and kewell out again?" talk about ducking the difficult ones 

Yeah I couldn't think of the answer so I thought I'd just better ignore the question  Never fails that approach.

Fowler_E7 wrote:

bigmick wrote:

Fowler_E7 wrote::D i notice how you never replied to my question "if we play the same team and win, would you leave torres and kewell out again?" talk about ducking the difficult ones 

Yeah I couldn't think of the answer so I thought I'd just better ignore the question  Never fails that approach.

You know the answer you just dont like it.

ROTATION! 

just no more of this 5 changes a game nonsense

LFC2007 wrote:

bigmick wrote:So there we go, sooner or later we were bound to play well and we did. Granted they were absolutely garbage but we absolutely hammered them.

Anybody who has any doubts about how sh!te we were playing recently however, would do well to remember they turned us over a couple of weeks back. We have been through a dark tunnel, but hopefully there is light at the end of it now and it isn't just somebody with a Woodbine.

So what is the chance? Well, given the run of games we have coming up, we have a real opportunity now at last to get something going. Anybody who didn't play tonight can hardly moan about not playing in the next game, everybody who did play did OK so lets turn the same team out in the next match. That's right, the same eleven that started this one.

Even the big guns can be benched if approaching fitness and can fight their way back into the team. This in my personal opinion is our last opportunity of this season to launch ourselves. We had something going earlier in the season but totally lost the plot, please please please lets not make the same mistakes again.

The same team next game. No restings, rotations, revolutions, re-jigs or re-hashes, just the same team. No 4-5-1's, 3-5-2's or anything similar. It's Fulham at Home I think so we'll win the game anyway. Bring your Kewell's and your Torres's on in the second half and if they uproot trees, start them in the following game. If they don't stick with this one. By the time Man Utd arrive at Anfield we need to be absolutely fizzing. With a settled team.

Rotation is more acute in certain positions than others. One of the reasons we rotate more than others in certain positions (IMHO) is that we don't have enough complete players in our squad, by 'complete players', I mean players who can adapt to any given match. For example, Crouch lacks pace, and therefore is likely to be more ineffective playing on the counter attack, which invariably is an attacking scenario we are more likely to face away from home. Take the Manc's or Arsenal, virtually all of their attacking players possess a quality pace and touch, and therefore they don't have this limitation, e.g. Adebayor who is a sort of pacier and more powerful version of Crouch. Any of their players can play in any match. Another limitation is Gerrard being our only all round midfielder. Alonso lacks pace, Sissoko has pace, but lacks the ability to surge forward and score, predominantly because his touch isn't good enough and his passing isn't brilliant. Mascherano is excellent at securing the middle of the park, distributing the ball within a short radius of himself, tackling, defensive vision etc.. but again, doesn't really possess an attacking edge to his game. Similar limitations exist in our defence. Carragher isn't particularly pacey, and not the most elegant on the ball. This means that, against teams who possess pace up front, we cannot play a really high line and press high up the pitch. Arsenal and the manc's have pace at the back, who are also good solid defenders, but because they have defenders with pace and craft on the ball, they can play higher up and press the opposition. We have no real option but to play Hyypia and Agger in defence atm, as Agger is injured. As is the same in our midfield with Mascherano and Gerrard. The rotation is really more of an issue up front and on the wings. Our wingers aren't complete wingers, e.g. Babel has, pace and power, but perhaps lacks the deft touch we need in certain scenarios at home where the ball needs to be thread through the eye of a needle. Benayoun, however, does possess this ability and craft, but lacks pace and power. Therefore, against an opposition at home such as Fulham (who are likely to come looking for a draw) Benayoun would be the more effective option. The Mancs have Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani and Tevez, who all possess pace, power, an incredible touch and guile. Therefore, they are able to play effectively against any team, meaning, they are likely to be rotated less.

Basically, I don't agree with your point that we should stick with the same team solely on the grounds of cohesion. I believe that, because we have mainly incomplete players up front and on the wings, as mentioned above, we must pick the correct player for the correct scenario. In my view, this means playing Benayoun, Crouch (who is also deft on the deck), alongside one of Voronin or Kuyt - probably Voronin as there isn't much to choose atm. Voronin is more nimble than Kuyt so I'd give Voronin the nod on this occasion. On the left, I'd play Kewell or Aurelio depending on their fitness levels.


*Disclamier*

All of the above is IMHO, TMK, FWIW and FAO of Big Mick.

Fowler_E7 wrote:

jonnymac1979 wrote:Just got back from the game.

As soon as Kewell is 100% fit (an oxymoron?) he has to start matches.  No sway on that for me.  A fit Harry Kewell offers a direct threat down that channel.  I wanted him on the ball at all opportunity when he came on.  Surely he's approaching 100% now?

I am of the school that says stick with Crouch now he has been given a bit of confidence.  When he's given games, more often than not (discounting the period before he opened his goalscoring account against Wigan two years ago) he seems to score.  Has anyone got the stats on Crouch discounting those first twenty games or so?  The way he took his second goal with the glancing header suggested that he just did what comes natural.  He's never struck me as the greatest direct header of the ball given the fact that due to his height you would think it would be a strength of his.  So that second goal was a really accomplished finish for a player like Crouch and will have boosted his confidence no end.  I'd like to see hims start a few matches over Kuyt. 

As fantastic as Mascherano was tonight, we're still really missing Alonso.  I was glad that we went in at half time blazing because I knew we wouldn't need Torres then.  Give him another week to recover, although he was sprinting up the touchline doing his warm-ups and he doesn't look all that injured to me anyway...

Riise didn't have the best game, the crowd were on his back a little bit and I would suggest he will have to up his game or find himself rotated out, if Kewell comes back to the form we know he's capable of.  Aurelio would be my first choice left back if he could get himself fit.  Hell of a left peg on him.

Babel was excellent when he came on.  If we ever try out Torres and Babel up front with the pace they have, there's potential damage there for the opposition.  I will have to see it again but Babel bent his run superbly for one of his chances but was given offside?  Was it offside?  I've not seen it on telly yet. 

Benayoun was top class, there at the right time for the rebounds and it's nice to still have a player who will follow chances up in the way the now dearly departed Luis Garcia used to pop up with goals like that.  See if he starts the next game though.  I was actually surprised to see him last the 90 minutes.  You can never predict Rafa.

Top and bottom - it was a good game to attend.  Let it be said though, Besiktas were absolute garbage and offered no threat whatsoever, but I won't get too excited about this match as it's the equivalent of beating Derby who are also s*i*e and do not belong in the Premier League, just as Besiktas had no business being on the park with us tonight. 

It's a nice platform to build a run upon now.  I was at the Fulham game last season where we smashed them 4-0.  All the goals came in the seecond half that day.  A similar performance wouldn't go amiss.

It's nice to be able to say something positive for a change.  There have been dark clouds hovering for what seems like months and watching us has been like pulling teeth sometimes lately.  Tonight could be a turning point.  I'm longing for the form of 2005-06 when we were going into games knowing we were not even going to concede a goal and it was a matter of how well we would play and how many we would win by. 

I'd say I was happy tonight.

great post dude and nice to hear some positives for a change  agree with you about kewell, i think he's ready for the starting 11, and should start on saturday as he has looked really sharp since he has returned. It was great to see him provide width, and work the touchline so well when he came on, its something we've lacked all season IMO.

Oh and by the way Babbel was onside IMO, he strayed off but got himself back in line before the pass was struck, others might disagree though! but it was close

i rmb early in the season when kewell was set to come back many of u guyz nt saying u fowler , many of u guys were not even giving him a chance and saying that is there a cup final? and this adn that majority of u 1 him in ur teams??? Next time keep the negativity to urself and wait till he has shown u what he can do .... u're bunch of hypocrites ...