Liverpool FC Forum

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:24 am

i liked arbeloa and aurelio at home because they are better footballers with more flair and ability on the ball

and riise is way to limited to play left mig

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:26 am

I would be happy with same team, I thought Riise did well, made a few goals and got in some good tackles. Voronin and Crouch linked well, and Benayoun showed he CAN finish. (which I doubted ) We can always bring Kewell and Torres on second half if we want to change things a bit. I would be happy to settle for same team, same result

I am still not 100% sure about Babel but I live in hope.

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:35 am

bigmick wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:why go with the same team, the substitutes all playerd well when they came on aswell. Also Torres is available for the game on saturday and most people are always saying how he must play every game that he is available. Personally i would bring Kewell in for Aurelio, and Torres in for Voronin as that would be a stronger team which is more likely to win the game.

So Kewell in for Aurelio would mean Riise moving back into the back four presumeably which I guess is fair enough in itself. Torres coming back into the team for Voronin would obviously strengthen the thing (assuming of course he's fit) but would completely change the way we move the ball forward.

So in essence, what you're proposing is taking a team which has just won 8-0 and put in the first really good performance we've had for weeks, changing the back four, the midfield, the whole way the team attacks (and bearing in mind that Kewell and Torres have never played together), bringing two blokes back from serious injuries and dropping two players who featured in that 8-0 win? Sorry I can't agree.

The season must start again from this point. Unless we can accept that we had a huge hand in derailing ourselves by our over zealous use of changes to the team earlier in the season we run the risk of making the same mistakes again. If we do, and fail to get something going now, it really will be too late.

Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea aren't going to suddenly start dropping points, it's a great urban myth. Now we've had some good fortune in the midst of our "blip" which has enabled us to take five points out of our last three league games. It could have been a whole lot worse, and unless we get some consistency of performance, which will follow consistency of selection, our rivals will have well and truly disappeared over the horizon.

it dosn't matter whether Kewell and Torres have played togheter IMO, why? beacuse there two of our better players and good players play well. When Kewell came on tonight he was much better down the left than Riise and Babbel, plus the fact he has also played well coming of the bench in the past two games. He is our best left winger IMO, and we have been struggling in this position all season, so he should get his chance, and Fulham at home is about as easy as its gonna get to give him a chance to familirise himself with the team.

Torres on the other hand is complete no brainer, he's the best striker we have and the most likely to score, you talk about changing the style of play when he comes in, well thats fine with me as were clearly better when plays.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:35 am

if you pay 20 mil for somebody, if he is fit, you play him. I think if u HAD to pick the 2 worst performers Fabio would prolly be on there and Riise's first half is on there; THis is why I think Finnan should play on the right and move Arbeloa to LB and Kewell to LM. Keep playing a 442 and ATTACK and have Babel and Voronin on the bench with Riise and Lucas

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:39 am

Not wanting to disagree but Risse crossed when Crouch should have scored with the header, made Benayouns goal with a bit of quick thinking with the fast throw in, and had a header cleared off the line in the first half , AND HE PLAYED EVEN BETTER SECOND HALF

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:40 am

It's all about the message you send out to the players. Sit them down during the week and tell them as a group that everybody who started on Tuesday night did really well and you couldn't drop a single one of them and look them in the eye. Tell everybody else (including the stars) that it is now down to them to fight their way into the team. Everybody knows where they stand then. That way, when players do come on a sa sub or whatever, they graft their b0ll0cks off to catch the eye of the manager.

It's time to draw a line under the silliness and move on as a team. We tried it, (mass rotating in all competitions except largely in the League) and it didn't work. I wouldn't have thought that anybody at all could possibly dispute that, but no doubt some will. Fortunately, if we can drag ourselves out of the tailspin* we might, just might be able to get ourselves back into it. We'll definately have to beat Man Utd in the Home game in my opinion, as well as winning just about every game in the next couple of months, but it is just about doable with the quality of players we have at our disposal.

Contribute to our own downfall again though, and the consequences could be dire.

* I know some will dispute the "tailspin" comment, but I don't think it's over-dramatic. One things for sure, continuing as we are, unbeaten or not would see us struggling to finish in the top four come the end of the season, never mind winning the thing.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:41 am

s@int wrote:Not wanting to disagree but Risse crossed when Crouch should have scored with the header, made Benayouns goal with a bit of quick thinking with the fast throw in, and had a header cleared off the line in the first half , AND HE PLAYED EVEN BETTER SECOND HALF

I guess I just remember yelling at him a couple times in the first 8 minutes when he had some heavy touches and bad passes

by **Sabre** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:43 am

The same team in a picture

Sounds like a reasonable team. But then we have underperformed with equally reasonable teams. If it has to be repeated and Torres must earn his place in it showing to be better in 30 mins, so be it.

After all, if you can change staff members, players, and sometimes tactics, you could try that policy to see what happens, and if it works, keep it. However, I think Rafa is more stubborn than I am, he'll always think there are certain players more proper for some games than for others, so that, and a combination of form and fitness will keep deciding and changing the team, I'm afraid.

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:54 am

Sabre wrote:After all, if you can change staff members, players, and sometimes tactics, you could try that policy to see what happens, and if it works, keep it. However, I think Rafa is more stubborn than I am, he'll always think there are certain players more proper for some games than for others, so that, and a combination of form and fitness will keep deciding and changing the team, I'm afraid.

Well in the short term in won't matter. Like I said earlier, you could put Leon in goal and you yourself at centre half Sabes (running with the Brucie thing) and we'd still beat Fulham.

Look, if we must bring back the big guns en masse for the game then fair enough (I wouldn't but there you go). The point I've made though still stands, at some point in the next couple of games we have to get something going. Something going isn't going to Newcastle and drawing, "but we're still unbeaten", we have to win. Something going isn't drawing 1-1 at Home with the Mancs, we need to win the game. Our very best chance of achieving those results comes if we can play with fluency and attacking verve, if we can anticipate each others movements, if we can have confidence in the team pattern. Our best chance of achieving that is if we have a largely settled team.

I'm definately not trying to pretend that Torres isn't in a different stratosphere to Voronin (I actually think Kuyt is as well FWIW), nor Kewell a better left midfielder than Riise, but both players are coming back and now we have a base, they can be eased in. If however we played Kuyt and Torres up top against Fulham, Kewell on the left, Sissoko through the middle and Finnan at right back, we would rest/rotate/feck about with Crouch, Voronin, Gerrard, Aurelio and Arbeloa.

We'd still win the game of course, but it would be a huge mistake. Please don't be surprised anybody if we take that option and then look like we are playing a completely different (and inferior) game when we come up against Man Utd.

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:58 am

I am sure that I remember the same kind of posts from you Big Michael last season (or the one before) where Rafa was chopping and changing the side and you demanded a more settled side.

He did then and we strung a few wins together. Or maybe it was the playing two up front bit, cant remeber of=r be @rsed to search.

Anyway my point is if it dioes turn around dont start trying to pass it off as your idea.

EVERYONE knows peewee though of it and has been telling Rafa for years.

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:03 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:I am sure that I remember the same kind of posts from you Big Michael last season (or the one before) where Rafa was chopping and changing the side and you demanded a more settled side.

He did then and we strung a few wins together. Or maybe it was the playing two up front bit, cant remeber of=r be @rsed to search.

Anyway my point is if it dioes turn around dont start trying to pass it off as your idea.

EVERYONE knows peewee though of it and has been telling Rafa for years.

Nah it'll all be my idea, I'm the founder member of the "I'm not absolutely sure I trust Rafa in all aspects of football implicitly" brigade. Funnily enough, I'm not only the founder member, but the only member as well. The membership of that little brigade never really did get off the ground, unlike the anti-rotation brigade, which got so big we had to get our own train

It's probably the name not being punchy enough that worked against it now I think of it.

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:04 am

bigmick wrote:It's all about the message you send out to the players. Sit them down during the week and tell them as a group that everybody who started on Tuesday night did really well and you couldn't drop a single one of them and look them in the eye. Tell everybody else (including the stars) that it is now down to them to fight their way into the team. Everybody knows where they stand then. That way, when players do come on a sa sub or whatever, they graft their b0ll0cks off to catch the eye of the manager.

It's time to draw a line under the silliness and move on as a team. We tried it, (mass rotating in all competitions except largely in the League) and it didn't work. I wouldn't have thought that anybody at all could possibly dispute that, but no doubt some will. Fortunately, if we can drag ourselves out of the tailspin* we might, just might be able to get ourselves back into it. We'll definately have to beat Man Utd in the Home game in my opinion, as well as winning just about every game in the next couple of months, but it is just about doable with the quality of players we have at our disposal.

Contribute to our own downfall again though, and the consequences could be dire.

* I know some will dispute the "tailspin" comment, but I don't think it's over-dramatic. One things for sure, continuing as we are, unbeaten or not would see us struggling to finish in the top four come the end of the season, never mind winning the thing.

so what did u think of Kewells performance? coz personally i think he was far superior to Riise and offered us something we have lacked all season, a real left winger. He has come of the bench three times now and played well if thats not "fighting his way into the team" then i dont know what is. And as for Torres playing up front, im sorry why shouldnt he play if hes fully fit, the guy is our best striker by an absolute mile.

What if for example Gerrard had been rested toninght and Lucas had shone in the 8-0 win, would you leave out Gerrard for the next game? i wouldnt because Gerrard is by far our best midfielder regardless of how well his replacement played, the same can be said for Torres upfront.

I mean no doubt we could play the same team as tonights and beat Fulham, but what then? do we play the same team again the following game and leave two of our best players out?

by **Sabre** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:08 am

First, if I played with the Brucie big thing Liverpool would probably lose the game, I'm awful playing footie, let's be honest here.

Second, you said a similar thing about the Birmingham at home game, and it was the worst result in the season, a frustrating 0-0 and 2 points we could not afford to lose if we want to compete for the league. Meaning, we shouldn't understimate no-one. BTW, that 0-0 was with this line up

25 Reina J. Portero
17 Arbeloa Defensa
4 Hyypia S. Defensa
23 Carragher J. Defensa
6 Riise J. Defensa
16 Pennant J. Mediocampista
8 Gerrard S. Mediocampista
20 Mascherano J. Mediocampista
19 Babel R. Delantero
10 Voronin A. Delantero
18 Kuyt D. Delantero

Not that different to the one we played today.

Third, I understand your point, I know all the disclaimers (you are not advocating for the same eleven always but stopping the excessive rotation and highlighting football concepts like cohesion and fluency). As I've said I understand and agree at some extent many points you make, we simply disagree in the extent of damage rotation does in the fluency and overall the team.

We rotated from the last game against Blackburn some players and we won today. That doesn't mean rotation works, but that confidence and mindset of a team is as important as any policy.

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:10 am

Personally I would like to see Kewell keep coming off the bench a few more weeks. Three or four more cameos yet, gradually longer to test the fitness.

Then when he scores he gets a start.

Thats what we need from him, and if he thinks this is how he gets his game, then he will go all out to do it.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:12 am

JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:Not wanting to disagree but Risse crossed when Crouch should have scored with the header, made Benayouns goal with a bit of quick thinking with the fast throw in, and had a header cleared off the line in the first half , AND HE PLAYED EVEN BETTER SECOND HALF

I guess I just remember yelling at him a couple times in the first 8 minutes when he had some heavy touches and bad passes

Sorry mate I think my post came over as harsher than I intended. I have been defending Riise and Kewell for ages and its not been easy considering Riise has been cr@p for the best part of a year

I was just happy he got a bit of form back tonight (hopefully it wasn't just cos Besiktas were cr@p)

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