A very controversial post. - What do you guys think?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby J*o*n*D*o*e » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:17 am

maureen had it easy at chelski and in the end was found out, if he`s so fooking special why aint he there now, i would of liked to have have seen how well he would of done given the same funds Benitez was given and inherited some of the :censored: he did.

Rafa along with the players has given some of you the best moments of your footballing lives, to the rest of us he`s added another chapter in this great clubs history, we are within touching distance of the leaders having not lost a league game, all this after playing some of the worst football seen under him and suffering major injuries to key players, lets give the guy a bit of backing and i dont just mean on these boards, tomorrow night we need to show the rest of the country and the fooken rags that Rafa is one of us and going nowhere.

mo for Anfield, pleeeaaaaaaaaaaaaase no

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Postby NANNY RED » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:20 am

J*o*n*D*o*e wrote:maureen had it easy at chelski and in the end was found out, if he`s so fooking special why aint he there now, i would of liked to have have seen how well he would of done given the same funds Benitez was given and inherited some of the :censored: he did.

Rafa along with the players has given some of you the best moments of your footballing lives, to the rest of us he`s added another chapter in this great clubs history, we are within touching distance of the leaders having not lost a league game, all this after playing some of the worst football seen under him and suffering major injuries to key players, lets give the guy a bit of backing and i dont just mean on these boards, tomorrow night we need to show the rest of the country and the fooken rags that Rafa is one of us and going nowhere.

mo for Anfield, pleeeaaaaaaaaaaaaase no

back in my shell

Pat on the back for you lad
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Postby eds » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:28 am

I think the question is not whether we would accept Joesay taking charge "IF" Rafa was given the sack but that we would even contemplate such a "controversial" notion.

In all honesty I don't think any of us really have the foggiest if Joesay would make that much of a difference in getting us the title. Sure he was successful at Chelski but he spent more money that Scrooge McDuck's farkin money vault in Duckberg! The majority of his buys weren't that good as he did inherit a very good team, BUT he did get them the title (twice) and that we can't ignore.

I think I have seen enough now to realise that Rafa will not win us the title this year, dunno about next year either. The players are playing absoulately s**thouse and our problems are to numerous to mention but for a start:

* Kuyt should be put out of his misery and shot
* Voronin was never going set the EPL on fire
* 12million for Babel. WTF? Why isn't this being discussed even more on these forums? I am farkin fuming with this!!!
* Sissoko shoould be sold to Juventus (if there is still interest) AS SOON as the window opens in January.
* No quality wingers bought.
* No quality CB bought.
* Please don't get me started on rotations, as Rafa lost the plot a LONG TIME ago with his overcooking of EPL game plans.

The problem is that Rafa being the stubborn git he is won't change to prove a point. And if he does I will seriously question why it has taken him 4 farkin years to come around.

So if we finish 20pts behind 2nd or 1st. Do we need a new manager at season's end? Hell Yes. But Joesay at Liverpool? I guess that's up to everyone to decide for themselves. I personally, would be appalled if we brought him in.
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:33 am

bigmick wrote:I posted this paragraph earlier today on another thread (earlier today that is NZ time) and battened down the hatches, expecting to get absolutely slaughtered by all and sundry jumping in to defend Rafa and to put the boot into Mourinho at the very least, and me when they'd got sick of that. I'm very surprised that it didn't really happen.

Now I'm well aware that many have probably tired of the same old points been raised by the same old posters, but this was a slightly different question. Not advocating getting Mourinho in as manager or anything like it but simply asking the question would we be more likely to launch a challenge if he were manager? Here is the paragraph...


  As a footnote, not wanting to crank up the controversy particularly but I may as well ask the question. The press are predictably talking up the possibility of Mourinho replacing Rafa. Now I don't like the little ponce any more than the next man, special he certainly ain't, but were he to take over at the end of the season, would we have more or less chance of winning the Premiership? I don't think from a tactical point of view he is anywhere near Rafa's equal, and probably isn't in the transfer market either. My hunch is that he would try something really simplistic. He'd put his arm around Gerrard and tell him he is the best midfield player in the World, he'd tell Torres that he was the one player above all others that he wanted to sign when he was Chelsea manager, he'd do an interview whereby he'd call Alonso "the General", and say that Carra was the one centre half that Drogba hated playing against. Then he'd probably go and play pretty much the same team in the first couple of months of the season. Hand on heart, would I want him as Liverpools manager? NO. Hand on heart do I think we'd have more chance of winning the Premiership with him in charge? yes.



Now is the lack of people jumping in a sign of the fact that I've eventually bored everyone into submission and the mere sight of a Bigmick post is enough to prompt a quick scroll past (quite likely I must admit), or do people maybe think the same thing. Would we be more likely to launch a serious title challenge if Mourinho (and we might as well use him as an example as we all know him, as opposed to Lippi or one of these other feckers) were in charge, or Rafa with his current philosophies?




Disclaimer: I am not saying we should sack Rafa and bring in Mourinho.

Back to your original point Bigmick, do you honestly think we would even be having this discussion if we had won and not lost the CL last season? I am sure even with the poor standard of football served up recently and the huge expectations some of us had/have, it wouldn't even have been thought of if we had won.
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Postby bigmick » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:55 am

Of course not Saint. If we had won the Champions League twice in three seasons Rafa could probably have finished tenth this season and nobody would hve said much. Equally though, if the over passionate Gerrard hadn't dug us out of the sh!te in the dying seconds against Olympiacos three years ago, we wouldn't be having this debate then either as Rafa would probably have gone by now.

I keep going on about direction. I ask the question here, if Rafa were to make it clear that he intends next season to change the team as many times in the first fifteen or so games in all competitions as he has this, would people be happy to go for another season and see if we can make the thing work, or would we be looking for a change in direction? Equally, if we made it clear that it was our plan to go into Away games next season with the same amount of attacking intent as wea re showing this season, would it be time for a change?

For my part, if that is the intention then I believe it would be time for a change (although that doesn't necessarily mean Mourinho). The reason of course is  that I have made no secret of my belief that it is an impossibility to achieve success in the English Premier League without the guts of a settled team.
Last edited by bigmick on Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby neil » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:24 am

s@int wrote:
neil wrote:with the players we currently have even I could pick a first team, stick to it, rest players when they get lazy,to-wit dropped and have a better chance of success. We just need someone to allow the players to appear important rather than the managers sheer genius.

If you are willing to drop Kuyt and play Crouch, you have got the job mate  :D

torres & crouch up front it is then but Riise 1st on the teamsheet after seeing his wageslip O_o
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:50 am

bigmick wrote:Of course not Saint. If we had won the Champions League twice in three seasons Rafa could probably have finished tenth this season and nobody would hve said much. Equally though, if the over passionate Gerrard hadn't dug us out of the sh!te in the dying seconds against Olympiacos three years ago, we wouldn't be having this debate then either as Rafa would probably have gone by now.

I keep going on about direction. I ask the question here, if Rafa were to make it clear that he intends next season to change the team as many times in the first fifteen or so games in all competitions as he has this, would people be happy to go for another season and see if we can make the thing work, or would we be looking for a change in direction? Equally, if we made it clear that it was our plan to go into Away games next season with the same amount of attacking intent as wea re showing this season, would it be time for a change?

For my part, if that is the intention then I believe it would be time for a change (although that doesn't necessarily mean Mourinho). The reason of course is  that I have made no secret of my belief that it is an impossibility to achieve success in the English Premier League without the guts of a settled team.

As you know I believe in reasonable rotation (not the crazy stuff we have seen at times this year) I just question is it rotation or is it the players(Lack of quality and creativity up front, no adequate cover at the back etc). By the end of this season we should know the answers.

If we get a good run going, Rafa rotates and we STILL get results its obvious that its not rotation. If we get a good run going, Rafa rotates and we stumble and revert back to playing second rate football its obviously down to rotation. If we don't get a good run going I don't think it will really matter which it was.

If we win the league and I still believe we can, I wont really care which it was. 

In a peverse way, just as I think if we had won the CL last season it would have taken all the pressure off Rafa, winning the CL in his first season has added a great deal of expectation and pressure. Certainly from a progress point of view if the two results had been switched I would be feeling a lot happier now. I wouldn't want to change '05 for anything though.

I do feel that Rafa at times defeats his own argument..... he leaves Torres out and we struggle, but its not because Torres is out, we have other strikers just as good. Torres misses matches through injury and we struggle, its because Torres is out.
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Postby Red Red Tom » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:58 am

This Mourinho stuff has been brewing for a few days now, and although I posted something similar in the other thread that has now been moved, and I feel strongly enough about this to say it again.

"This club exists to win trophies".  We hear this all the time, but is it true?  I'm confident we'd win trophey's under Jose, and maybe 20 years ago he'd have been welcomed.

But not anymore.

Because since Heysel and Hillsborough, this club exists to win trophies with HONOUR, this club exists to win trophies with DECENCY, this club exists to win trophies with HUMILITY, this club exists and to win trophies with RESPECT, and this club exists to win trophies with DIGNITY.

Jose possesses none of these qualities, and should not ever be allowed to blacken the reputation of LFC, a reputation we have a duty to preserve, because of the 96 and 39.  I honestly don't think Mourinho is a LIVERPOOL manager.  We conduct ourselves with class.  He has none.

Anyway, he can't win the CL with English clubs.  And he's a d*ck.

EDIT:  Apparently I can't spell 'Trophies'!
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Postby Kharhaz » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:14 am

Red Red Tom wrote:I'm confident we'd win trophey's under Jose, and maybe 20 years ago he'd have been welcomed.

Didnt put a lot of thought into that comment did ya mate?
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Postby whylongball? » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:43 am

Normally its yourself that is hard to beat.
Rafa can beat Morinho anyday..He let himself down with his stubbornesss
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Postby red_guy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:19 am

whylongball? wrote:Normally its yourself that is hard to beat.
Rafa can beat Morinho anyday..He let himself down with his stubbornesss

You're on the spot , mate.  :)
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Postby Feugo » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:46 am

Big Niall wrote:he spent a lot but in his three years in England he won the league twice and never lost a home game in the league.

Whether people like him or not he has proved a top manager in the english game.

I'd welcome any manager I thought could win the league.

I'd second that.
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Postby Ciggy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:09 am

What really baffles me about Rafa is how we have played so well in Europe and he has that comp sussed (this season apart).

But I blame the players for not doing well in the CL this season the hunger has gone from the old heads after being in 2 finals in three years.

How can you know how to beat the likes of Barca, Chelsea, Juventus.

And then get it so wrong in England?
Its not like we play these teams week in week out so why the fear of losing rather than winning?

Why do we set out not to get beat first and formost?

Why are we so defensive away from home two holding midfielders against Blackburn and one upfront is so so wrong it sends out the wrong signals.

We are Liverpool why dont we set up as if to say fuck you we dont care what you are going to do and play our own game why the fear?

Teams should dread playing us but they dont.

Did teams fear Chelsea yes they sure did, did Mourhino change his methods for the oppo?  No he didnt.

But Mourhino didnt get Europe right when he worked in England his Porto side cheated their way to winning the CL and Chelsea done a lot of cheating in the prem also and play acting.

Something I would hate Liverpool to do.

I have no doubt in my mind that Rafa can get it right, we just need to stamp our authority on games from the off, less of that rotation rubbish of 7 changes against Portsmouth 6 against Birmingham.

No resting of our important players if Carra can play every game then so can Torres.

If Rafa can cut out his mistakes and stop being so stubborn he can be one of the best managers Liverpool has ever had his downfall if he isnt will be his own fault.

And I for one would hate to see that happen.
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Postby Judge » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:54 am

Carvalho - one of the biggest cheats in the game , fucking hate him

always gets away with his digs, falls etc
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:02 am

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Rafa looks happy enough anyway
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