Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:05 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
Its only an impression and I may be totally wrong, but I think Rafa's man management skills are poor and I think this is his one real weakness.

A few of us have been saying this for a while Saint, you included me old China. But we got literally laughed at for making such suggestions.

What we see and what goes on behind the scenes could be different? Could he be such a bad man manager and then do so well in management? and get players to perform to such levels that wins trophies?

you or I dont know what he's like fair enough, i'm just going on what I see and think and could be wide of the mark. But I didnt get thid idea from a "book"

Incidently he hasnt got us to perform recently in bread and butter games. So somthing is definately going wrong with his management somewhere. At the start of every season, we're out of the race, and domestically our results against the other big three arre appalling. We havent even scored a goal ar Stamford bridge under him.

Crouch doesnt get picked when he should, the one naff player who hardly gets rotated is Kuyt. But constantly finds himself firing blanks and playing poor, all because Rafa cant swallow his pride for whatever reasons and in doing so hinders our title chances game by game everytime Kuyts picked.

His management isnt all rosey ya know..

Fair enough you can go off on a tangent, but i thought we were talking about his lack of man management, i am pointing out that it cannot be all that bad, as he is a successful manager, one of the most successful in th recent past. Therefore is it more likely that he has decent man management skills, or that he does not?

I have not said that Rafas managemant is perfect, infact i have said the opposite, but i am not willing to judge his ability SOLELY on a few poor games of this season.

I thnk it has been said inthe past thet the management team of Rafa and Pako was probably one of the best.

Rafa working out how to play teams and Pako doing the man managment on a daily basis.

So your augument of he must be a good man manager could be de-railed if it was Pako that was telling the lads how good they where and putting the hyperthetical arm around the shoulder.

The problem is we don't really know what goes on behind closed doors, for all we know Rafa may make them cups of tea and massage their tired tootsies!

Day by day Pako is becoming the 'special one', at this rate this time next week he'll be the coach of Real Madrid, i've been told he was responsible for tactics, coaching, fitness, and now man management. If only G&H had kept him on an as manager and got rid of Rafa.

The funny thing is that when Pako left, nobody gave it importance. There it is the thread to check how was the reaction.

Now, we have a bad patch largely due to the amount of injuries and the importance of them (one key injury per line) and suddenly Pako is the especial one, and Rafa's man management is poor.

Well, the contracts are there. IMHO, if Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano were not happy with Rafa's management they would all have plenty of offers and chances to not sign up a new contract, and they could sign up for almost any European team. But the FACT is that they signed up. They signed up because they saw there was an interesting ongoing project, and that's why Torres joined aswell.

About the topic question: Needless to say, no.

by **Judge** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:08 pm

bigmick wrote:I posted this paragraph earlier today on another thread (earlier today that is NZ time) and battened down the hatches, expecting to get absolutely slaughtered by all and sundry jumping in to defend Rafa and to put the boot into Mourinho at the very least, and me when they'd got sick of that. I'm very surprised that it didn't really happen.

Now I'm well aware that many have probably tired of the same old points been raised by the same old posters, but this was a slightly different question. Not advocating getting Mourinho in as manager or anything like it but simply asking the question would we be more likely to launch a challenge if he were manager? Here is the paragraph...

As a footnote, not wanting to crank up the controversy particularly but I may as well ask the question. The press are predictably talking up the possibility of Mourinho replacing Rafa. Now I don't like the little ponce any more than the next man, special he certainly ain't, but were he to take over at the end of the season, would we have more or less chance of winning the Premiership? I don't think from a tactical point of view he is anywhere near Rafa's equal, and probably isn't in the transfer market either. My hunch is that he would try something really simplistic. He'd put his arm around Gerrard and tell him he is the best midfield player in the World, he'd tell Torres that he was the one player above all others that he wanted to sign when he was Chelsea manager, he'd do an interview whereby he'd call Alonso "the General", and say that Carra was the one centre half that Drogba hated playing against. Then he'd probably go and play pretty much the same team in the first couple of months of the season. Hand on heart, would I want him as Liverpools manager? NO. Hand on heart do I think we'd have more chance of winning the Premiership with him in charge? yes.

Now is the lack of people jumping in a sign of the fact that I've eventually bored everyone into submission and the mere sight of a Bigmick post is enough to prompt a quick scroll past (quite likely I must admit), or do people maybe think the same thing. Would we be more likely to launch a serious title challenge if Mourinho (and we might as well use him as an example as we all know him, as opposed to Lippi or one of these other feckers) were in charge, or Rafa with his current philosophies?

Disclaimer: I am not saying we should sack Rafa and bring in Mourinho.

i know its a bit early but.......

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:10 pm

A mate of mine posed the same question to me yesterday after hearing the ramblings of the media. He asked me what I thought about that, and I told him to simply "f*ck off". He's a Liverpool fan himself as well.

I don't want that pompous w@nker near our club. I feel that he won't bring us any closer to the league than Rafa simply because he'll turn our style of play even more defensive. Rafa has proved he's had the beating over him in the past anyway where and when it mattered. Not only this, but how can any Liverpool fan forget his comments about us fans, Rafa, and the club? How can we forget when he held his finger to his lips to tell the Anfield crowd to "shussh" after Chelsea scored an equalizer against us a few seasons back? He's a money grabbing c*nt. Simple as that. I'd hate it if he came to us. Getting closer to winning the league wouldn't even be an issue. For me or any Liverpool fan to be calling him a c*nt and mocking him for the past few years would mean we'd all be hypocrites to welcome him in and all of a sudden start praising him as our manager. F*ck that! F*ck that big time.

by **Reg** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:28 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:Oh.. and Maureen at Anfield... I don't think so!

Thats not the question though which was, if Maureen was in the job would we have ground to a halt as we have done at the moment through Rafa´s particular style of management by rotation?

by **Ade** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:33 pm

Emerald Red wrote:A mate of mine posed the same question to me yesterday after hearing the ramblings of the media. He asked me what I thought about that, and I told him to simply "f*ck off". He's a Liverpool fan himself as well.

I don't want that pompous w@nker near our club. I feel that he won't bring us any closer to the league than Rafa simply because he'll turn our style of play even more defensive. Rafa has proved he's had the beating over him in the past anyway where and when it mattered. Not only this, but how can any Liverpool fan forget his comments about us fans, Rafa, and the club? How can we forget when he held his finger to his lips to tell the Anfield crowd to "shussh" after Chelsea scored an equalizer against us a few seasons back? He's a money grabbing c*nt. Simple as that. I'd hate it if he came to us. Getting closer to winning the league wouldn't even be an issue. For me or any Liverpool fan to be calling him a c*nt and mocking him for the past few years would mean we'd all be hypocrites to welcome him in and all of a sudden start praising him as our manager. F*ck that! F*ck that big time.

As Reg said…

Let's get our heads out of our :censored:

and be objective about it.

by **Graeme Noble** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:36 pm

I think Benitez is the superior manager, and I don't want him to go. I do believe he needs to stop rotating as frequently as he has been

Just remember that Liverpool have twice beaten Chelsea in the big European Cup when Chelsea had the much superior squad. Benitez tactics one us those games (and I don't care if one of them was decided on penalties)

by **hello_red** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:44 pm

I love the time of year when we fans start pondering would another manager be better than Rafa in the league.

The answer is.......... Maybe!

As for Maureen, well he would be just as good as Rafa, but Rafa is better in Europe.

Theres your answer.

by **Ade** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:48 pm

Graeme Noble wrote:I think Benitez is the superior manager, and I don't want him to go. I do believe he needs to stop rotating as frequently as he has been

Just remember that Liverpool have twice beaten Chelsea in the big European Cup when Chelsea had the much superior squad. Benitez tactics one us those games (and I don't care if one of them was decided on penalties)

mate, who did that Torres signature for you?

greame?

Back on topic, St Mike, as I say, I don't want to see Rafa go. But would it be a sad day for this club if we were to sack Rafa, bring in Jose… and win the title in his first season?

No doubt the forum would then split into two camps - the 'it was Rafa's team that won it' vs the 'Jose is clearly better than Rafa' mob.

by **parchpea** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:24 pm

Mourinho would give one thing that Rafa could never express and that is passion.

Liverpool is a club with a massive heart and a passionate support and in this enviroment Mourhino would be in his element.

He would have to win people over and I doubt Liverpool would employ him but if they did I think he would be a big hit at Anfield.

by **Bammo** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:52 pm

parchpea wrote:Mourinho would give one thing that Rafa could never express and that is passion.

Liverpool is a club with a massive heart and a passionate support and in this enviroment Mourhino would be in his element.

He would have to win people over and I doubt Liverpool would employ him but if they did I think he would be a big hit at Anfield.

Or the passionate fans would boost his ego to the point that he lost the plot and thought he was better than he really is.

Just because someone is passionate it doesn't mean they are better. Who's the better manager, passionless Wenger or the passionate Gary Megson?

Maybe Mourinho would be a success, maybe he wouldn't. I wouldn't write off Rafa just yet though.

It seems that everyone's becoming polarised into either backing Rafa to the hilt or claiming he's rubbish and it was all Pako. Let's see how we do when the injured players have returned and Rafa's strengthened in January, then make judgements.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:25 pm

There's some interesting points of view in there, and some admirably reserved and considered responses to what is an uncomfortable question. Some have completely missed the point of the question of course but you get that. Some have taken the question as meaning that I think we should sack Rafa and bring in Mourinho, which of course I don't. In the main though, most people have given it some thought, and interestingly there aren't that many who are absolutely adamant that we would have more chance of winning the Premeirship next season with Rafa in charge than we would have with Mourinho at the helm.

Ciggy makes a very intersting and valid point about Mourinho not being missed at Chelsea. This fella Avram Grant (who I must confess I had never heard of until about a month ago) seems to have steadied the ship and is gettting them back on track. Fair play to him. Whether in the cut and thrust of a Premiership dogfight (which I think they will be well and truly involved in BTW) he can keep them rolling along we will see but he's done well so far.

It kind of puts in perspective this argument that there is no alternative to Rafa. Of course, there is. There are many alternatives, although some maybe more easy on the stomach than others. The easiest on my constitution is that we find a settled team and as much as is possible try and stick with it, we try and win all our games bar a slightly more conservative approach Away at the other big boys, and we try a bit a harder not to give interviews after matches where we give comments about players which could be construed as being insulting. Our current manager is more than capable of slightly altering his approach to take these things on board, and in my opinion unless and until he does, the questions about management alternatives will continue.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:41 pm

So, if I read Mick's original post correctly the two questions at the heart of it are:

1) Is Rafa getting the best out of our players at the moment?
2) If not, could another manager get enough out of them to win us the title?

My answer to the first question is no--at least not at the moment. Whether that's down to Rafa, down to the players or a little of both I leave for another debate (hint: I'll go with option 3).

My answer to the second question is an honest "dunno". Maybe someone like Mourinho (who I'd hate to see here, BTW) or Hiddink or Scolari could walk in and motivate the lads into winning it, much like Rafa did in the Champions League in his first season. Perhaps, though, they'd walk in, give it a go and come up short before deciding that there are too many players that aren't good enough. They'd likely be backed in the transfer market but they'd need time to assemble the squad they wanted...sound familiar?

So, I guess my implied question would be whether the squad is good enough for any manager to win the title with?

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:58 pm

stmichael wrote:It will be a sad day for this club if we sack Benítez and hire Mourinho.

I think them words would be echoed around Anfield

Rafa loves this club and he is taking us in the right direction
Who said weve lost the league this season, cause i certainly dont believe we have were still in the mix.

IN answer to the question no i dont think Jose would win us the league this season this season simple as.

Rafa is a better coach ,tactition and manager but thats my opinion.

Some have said maureen would praise the players and make them believe they were special . Well any player who need an arm round them telling them how special they are shouldnt be playing for Liverpol. They are the ones who should feel honoured wearing that red shirt.
Thats what Mourinio created at Chelsea he made his favorite players think they were bigger than the club.

Any chealsea supporter browsing on here must be laughing there head off

by **Graeme Noble** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:38 pm

Ade wrote:
Graeme Noble wrote:I think Benitez is the superior manager, and I don't want him to go. I do believe he needs to stop rotating as frequently as he has been

Just remember that Liverpool have twice beaten Chelsea in the big European Cup when Chelsea had the much superior squad. Benitez tactics one us those games (and I don't care if one of them was decided on penalties)

mate, who did that Torres signature for you?

greame?

Back on topic, St Mike, as I say, I don't want to see Rafa go. But would it be a sad day for this club if we were to sack Rafa, bring in Jose… and win the title in his first season?

No doubt the forum would then split into two camps - the 'it was Rafa's team that won it' vs the 'Jose is clearly better than Rafa' mob.

I did it. You like it?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:43 pm

Graeme Noble wrote:
Ade wrote:
Graeme Noble wrote:I think Benitez is the superior manager, and I don't want him to go. I do believe he needs to stop rotating as frequently as he has been

Just remember that Liverpool have twice beaten Chelsea in the big European Cup when Chelsea had the much superior squad. Benitez tactics one us those games (and I don't care if one of them was decided on penalties)

mate, who did that Torres signature for you?

greame?

Back on topic, St Mike, as I say, I don't want to see Rafa go. But would it be a sad day for this club if we were to sack Rafa, bring in Jose… and win the title in his first season?

No doubt the forum would then split into two camps - the 'it was Rafa's team that won it' vs the 'Jose is clearly better than Rafa' mob.

I did it. You like it?

I think he means Graeme is spelt wrong mate

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