Liverpool FC Forum

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:29 am

Kharhaz wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
europian-kings wrote:i for one like kuyt. i understand why people dont like him as i had the same problem last season. but if you watch him on the pitch even when he is noway near the ball he is always using his brain and thinking ahead.
fair enough he cant shoot for peanuts lol and i know that he isnt world class or anything, but if every player in the team put in as much effort as kuyt did i would be chuffed.

Well that shows what a great manager Benitez is. Lets buy ourselves a forward (who's job it is to score) who can't shoot. 10 out of 10 for that one Rafa

And if want players to put in the effort Kuyt does our central midfielders should be Sissoko and Robbie Savage. 11 hard workers won't win you the league. Quality will and quality is something Kuyt lacks.

As opposed to 11 slackers who will. Kuyt has struggled to score in England without a doubt but his attitude is to continue to work in a match to get the ball, and create something for other players. Every striker has a knock in confidence, all the best players have had one. You knock rafa for buying him but like I said earlier he can score goals, his history proves that. Im not totally against what your saying, for me he isnt the most natural goalscorer we have and shouldnt be the first on the team sheet under current performances, but he does work hard for the team and never gives the opposition defence a rest.

It's all very well hassling defenders but when he's doing it on the half way line leaving us nobody in an attacking position he's no good to us. He should allow whoever is in the middle of the park to break play up in the middle and he can be the outlet ball, then we will see Kuyt at his best, but on the half way line he's more harm than good

So would that be down to Kuyts performances or rafas tactics?

Rafa's tactics. He's not the great tactition we're all led to believe.

But despite the tactics of Benitez, Kuyt still isn't up to football at Liverpool.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:39 am

I think its a load of bollox about it being Rafa's fault that Kuyts not scoring. Kuyt played deep in Holland ffs, anyone who watched him play over there should know that. The pace of the game is faster over here thats the simple explanation. By the time Kuyt finally arrives in the box the ball has been cleared down the other end of the field.

Kuyt had time on the ball in Holland, time he doesn't get in the prem as we have midfielders snapping at their heels as soon as they get the ball. Maybe the introduction of Kewell will enable him to get into the box and on the end of a few crosses, but I wouldn't like to bet on it.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:04 am

s@int wrote:I think its a load of bollox about it being Rafa's fault that Kuyts not scoring. Kuyt played deep in Holland ffs, anyone who watched him play over there should know that. The pace of the game is faster over here thats the simple explanation. By the time Kuyt finally arrives in the box the ball has been cleared down the other end of the field.

Kuyt had time on the ball in Holland, time he doesn't get in the prem as we have midfielders snapping at their heels as soon as they get the ball. Maybe the introduction of Kewell will enable him to get into the box and on the end of a few crosses, but I wouldn't like to bet on it.

But the the fact is he scored in holland, so he knows where the back of the net it, he just hasnt achieved it in england, and thats what hes doing wrong ! He is very frustrating to watch !

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:16 am

Kharhaz wrote:
s@int wrote:I think its a load of bollox about it being Rafa's fault that Kuyts not scoring. Kuyt played deep in Holland ffs, anyone who watched him play over there should know that. The pace of the game is faster over here thats the simple explanation. By the time Kuyt finally arrives in the box the ball has been cleared down the other end of the field.

Kuyt had time on the ball in Holland, time he doesn't get in the prem as we have midfielders snapping at their heels as soon as they get the ball. Maybe the introduction of Kewell will enable him to get into the box and on the end of a few crosses, but I wouldn't like to bet on it.

But the the fact is he scored in holland, so he knows where the back of the net it, he just hasnt achieved it in england, and thats what hes doing wrong ! He is very frustrating to watch !

Kezman was a goal machine in Holland , just because you can do it in Holland doesn't necessarily mean you can do it over here.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:54 am

Are the goal frames a different size in holland? Is a striker in holland a defender in english terms? Different countries however the positions are the same. Lets disregard Kuyt for a second, how about Baros? or Owen ( his last couple of seasons for LFC he was poor ) or how about Fowler when we re-signed him? Or Cisse, or Pongolle, or lets go further back, Riedle, Dundee, Anelka ?. It seems to me that for a long time now whoever we sign as a striker just cannot win, Each and every person we have signed we all have our favourites but non of the above that I have mentioned have been prolific. Kuyt is different in my eyes in that although he isnt scoring goals it hasnt stopped him working hard for the team.

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:32 am

Kharhaz wrote:Are the goal frames a different size in holland? Is a striker in holland a defender in english terms? Different countries however the positions are the same. Lets disregard Kuyt for a second, how about Baros? or Owen ( his last couple of seasons for LFC he was poor ) or how about Fowler when we re-signed him? Or Cisse, or Pongolle, or lets go further back, Riedle, Dundee, Anelka ?. It seems to me that for a long time now whoever we sign as a striker just cannot win, Each and every person we have signed we all have our favourites but non of the above that I have mentioned have been prolific. Kuyt is different in my eyes in that although he isnt scoring goals it hasnt stopped him working hard for the team.

I presume that the pace of the game and the quality of the defenders is lower in Holland, which goes some way to explaining Kuyt's goalscoring prowess there. Because, for all of his hard work, he very, very rarely looks like scoring in England and that is not down to tactics. Watch him on the few times when he does get into the box--he's far too static and reacts to the play rather than anticipating it and making runs that will create openings.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:45 am

The frames are the same size mate but the quality of the defenders and the pace of the game is completely different. Then again our style of play isn't exactly striker friendly is it.

Kezman in Holland
172 games 126 goals

Kezman in England
37 games 5 goals

Kezman in Spain
33 games 10 goals

Kuyt in Holland
122 games 83 goals

Kuyt in England
43 games 14 goals

I have to admit our record where our strikers are concerned isn't the best, and hasn't been great really since Macmanaman left. Only Owen has really proved the exception to the rule. We need a creative second striker if our strikers are going to really flourish, someone like Beardsley or Dalglish. Fowler said more than a quarter of all his goals were supplied by Macmanaman, and I am pretty sure Dalglish provided even more for Rush.

Bugger Badbob beat me to it

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:48 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Are the goal frames a different size in holland? Is a striker in holland a defender in english terms? Different countries however the positions are the same. Lets disregard Kuyt for a second, how about Baros? or Owen ( his last couple of seasons for LFC he was poor ) or how about Fowler when we re-signed him? Or Cisse, or Pongolle, or lets go further back, Riedle, Dundee, Anelka ?. It seems to me that for a long time now whoever we sign as a striker just cannot win, Each and every person we have signed we all have our favourites but non of the above that I have mentioned have been prolific. Kuyt is different in my eyes in that although he isnt scoring goals it hasnt stopped him working hard for the team.

I presume that the pace of the game and the quality of the defenders is lower in Holland, which goes some way to explaining Kuyt's goalscoring prowess there. Because, for all of his hard work, he very, very rarely looks like scoring in England and that is not down to tactics. Watch him on the few times when he does get into the box--he's far too static and reacts to the play rather than anticipating it and making runs that will create openings.

Im replying in kind to his work rate and that he does know how to score a goal. He has been asked to do so much more by rafa since he came to liverpool and scored or not he has done it, he has worked. Rafa probably like the workmanship in kuyt which is why he picked so much. Im not picking an argument, just justifying why Kuyt isnt as bad as many think he is.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:57 am

Rush was a very hard working player, so was Hunt and Keegan, so its not a matter of either hardwork or goals, but maybe where they are working hard on the pitch and the kind of chances that are being created for them.

Hard work is great but not if its at the cost of what after all is supposed to be his prime aim GOALS.

by **Owzat** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:27 pm

s@int wrote:We need a creative second striker if our strikers are going to really flourish, someone like Beardsley or Dalglish. Fowler said more than a quarter of all his goals were supplied by Macmanaman, and I am pretty sure Dalglish provided even more for Rush.

We need chances created from somone in the team, if we play a "creative second striker" they still need to chip in with a reasonable number of goals. If they manage only 1 in 3 but also assist 1 in 3 then perfect, sad truth is that apart from Torres our strikers struggle to create or score. Of course you could play Gerrard off a loan striker as he scores and creates, but he'll do that anywhere he plays and seems too few players are pulling their weight. I get the impression a lot of fans rate "1 assist" Pennant, ferknose why - he's like most of our strikers, no end product/little to show for it.

Keane - 6 goals in 936 mins (156 mins/goal) 2 assists
Berbatov - 2 goals in 791 mins (396 mins/goal) 2 assists

Rooney - 4 goals in 496 mins (124 mins/goal) 3 assists
Tevez - 4 goals in 845 mins (211 mins/goal) 2 assists

Drogba - 4 goals in 623 mins (156 mins/goal) 3 assists
Kalou - 2 goals in 628 mins (314 mins/goal) 2 assists

Van Persie - 5 goals in 590 mins (118 mins/goal) 1 assist
Adebayor - 6 goals in 681 mins (114 mins/goal) 1 assist

I did wonder myself where I was going with this, it shows you can play two strikers as long as someone is creating - RVP and Adebayor have scored 11 goals but only set up 2 goals between them - Fabregas has 6 assists, Hleb 3 and most of the rest of midfield and attack have an assist. In fact Fabregas has FIVE goals as well as SIX assists, the whole team is scoring and Arsenal don't ponce about nearly as much with rotation

Liverpool's lack of productivity

Leaving aside the goals scored, over 10 league games :-

Attack - 4 assists, 2 of those by Kuyt
Midfield - 6 assists, 3 of those by Gerrard
Defence - 3 assists, nearly as many as the forwards

Where's the creativity in midfield? Gerrard is about it, Lucas' assist was a shot handled on the line while Pennant, Babel, Benayoun, Sissoko, Mascherano and Alonso have two assists between them. If the full backs were a creative source it mightn't be quite so bad, but Finnan, Riise, Arbeloa and anyone else who's played full back in the league have two assists between them.

Liverpool have 13 assists between all players in the Premiership, Fabregas has half that number by himself and scored nearly as many to boot. What can most of our players say they've contributed? Some can't even pass the ball without giving it away. We've played the same number of games as Arsenal, I think they've scored 43 goals while we've managed 30 - albeit somehow they've contrived to have played six league games at home not including today, compared with only four away. We've played five home and five away having played the same schedule (CL qualifiers, Carling Cup etc) with a sixth game away later today

by **Dundalk** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:11 pm

Thats enough!

He is after having the worst game I ever seen and he has to be dropped, get someone, anyone instead of this fella.

He is so frustrating :angry:

by **oakton** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:24 pm

i won't be surprised Kuyt will be starting again next week, Rafa is so much in love with Kuyt that he wants to married him.

by **the_red_alonso** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:31 pm

KUYT is a bigger joke than traore and cisse

by **zarababe** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:39 pm

what a shame - we had enuff chances to win that game - they may have shaved our post but, that's how it goes - when your not playing well, a bad win would have been good, especially given some of the other results today.

6 pts behind - game in hand over the mancs - still time to improve injury problems to be resovlved - we'll see !

by **zarababe** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:39 pm

oakton wrote:i won't be surprised Kuyt will be starting again next week, Rafa is so much in love with Kuyt that he wants to married him.

where are all these divs coming from !!

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