Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:52 am

One thing I do know for certain is that the yanks did provide the Germans with weapons. This was before they intervened after the events of Pearl Harbour. This is based on the programmes ive seen and from my biggest hero, my grandad, Mr William Merrikin, before he died in 93. aged 82.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:53 am

Emerald Red wrote:
peewee wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:They had to stage mass propaganda events in order to get the public to dip their hands into their pockets and to get big business men to sign big cheque's.

Pearl Harbour

As a reason? Or conspiracy? Erm...no comment!

Well, that was America's big go ahead to jump in, which they had to. I mean after they were well involved in the war, and the Japs taking the war to the Yanks like they never expected to. Americans expected that the Japs would be a push over. By f*ck did they get a shock. The battle of Iwo Jima certainly took them by surprise. It dragged on for months, sucking up the munitions and American moral in general. They needed money and fast.

as a mass propaganda event mate, a feat they have repeated more recently i believe (but thats for the conspiracy thread)

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:53 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Ironically enough, it's the reason why I'll bring the thread full circle and make a point that possibly a lot of immigrants have fled some waring countries and into the UK - one of the main arm's dealers that probably gave the tools and the means for the death and destruction in their land in the first place.

Could you cite some recent examples?

Load of Africans (not sure where from, but the place is in chaos) but a load have been trying to flee across the water to France. They've even made hand made rafts. I do believe that this had been mentioned on the news a good few times now. Others have tried in other locations by trying to traverse the Red Sea and get across into places like Turkey. It's true that if there's conflicts in places, people will try to leave if it's bad enough.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:01 am

Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Ironically enough, it's the reason why I'll bring the thread full circle and make a point that possibly a lot of immigrants have fled some waring countries and into the UK - one of the main arm's dealers that probably gave the tools and the means for the death and destruction in their land in the first place.

Could you cite some recent examples?

Load of Africans (not sure where from, but the place is in chaos) but a load have been trying to flee across the water to France. They've even made hand made rafts. I do believe that this had been mentioned on the news a good few times now. Others have tried in other locations by trying to traverse the Red Sea and get across into places like Turkey. It's true that if there's conflicts in places, people will try to leave if it's bad enough.

Sorry, what I meant was.....examples of people fleeing internecine war-torn countries and claiming asylum in the UK, for which the munitions involved in the conflict have been directly supplied by the UK.

Recent examples?

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:02 am

Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Ironically enough, it's the reason why I'll bring the thread full circle and make a point that possibly a lot of immigrants have fled some waring countries and into the UK - one of the main arm's dealers that probably gave the tools and the means for the death and destruction in their land in the first place.

Could you cite some recent examples?

Load of Africans (not sure where from, but the place is in chaos) but a load have been trying to flee across the water to France. They've even made hand made rafts. I do believe that this had been mentioned on the news a good few times now. Others have tried in other locations by trying to traverse the Red Sea and get across into places like Turkey. It's true that if there's conflicts in places, people will try to leave if it's bad enough.

do you mean like this guy who was so terrified of the troubles in somalia that he went back there after murdering a british police officer.

the fact is mate these places are not in as much conflict as they would have you believe, sure they are poor countries but for them to make out their lives are in danger on a daily basis is wrong.

A 27-year-old man has been charged with the murder of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky.

Mustaf Jama was also charged with robbery, two charges of possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life and two charges of possessing a prohibited weapon.

Pc Beshenivsky, 38, was shot on November 18, 2005 as she responded to an alarm at a travel agent's in Bradford.

Jama will appear before Leeds Magistrates on Friday morning.

Jama was taken to a police station in Leeds after being arrested and extradited from Somalia.

Five people have been convicted in connection with Pc Beshenivsky's death.

The policewoman was shot as she arrived at the scene of a robbery at the Universal Express travel agency on the day of her youngest daughter's fourth birthday.

Her colleague, Pc Teresa Milburn, was also shot and injured during the robbery.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:08 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Ironically enough, it's the reason why I'll bring the thread full circle and make a point that possibly a lot of immigrants have fled some waring countries and into the UK - one of the main arm's dealers that probably gave the tools and the means for the death and destruction in their land in the first place.

Could you cite some recent examples?

Load of Africans (not sure where from, but the place is in chaos) but a load have been trying to flee across the water to France. They've even made hand made rafts. I do believe that this had been mentioned on the news a good few times now. Others have tried in other locations by trying to traverse the Red Sea and get across into places like Turkey. It's true that if there's conflicts in places, people will try to leave if it's bad enough.

Sorry, what I meant was.....examples of people fleeing internecine war-torn countries and claiming asylum in the UK, for which the munitions involved in the conflict have been directly supplied by the UK.

Recent examples?

Well, only the obvious ones spring to my mind here. Israel, Burma, Iraq. I dare say there's been quite a few people in those regions that have fled. I'm sure those aren't the only places in conflict the arms dealers have supplied. It's big money, man. Money makes the world spin.

by **babu** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:11 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Ironically enough, it's the reason why I'll bring the thread full circle and make a point that possibly a lot of immigrants have fled some waring countries and into the UK - one of the main arm's dealers that probably gave the tools and the means for the death and destruction in their land in the first place.

Could you cite some recent examples?

Load of Africans (not sure where from, but the place is in chaos) but a load have been trying to flee across the water to France. They've even made hand made rafts. I do believe that this had been mentioned on the news a good few times now. Others have tried in other locations by trying to traverse the Red Sea and get across into places like Turkey. It's true that if there's conflicts in places, people will try to leave if it's bad enough.

Sorry, what I meant was.....examples of people fleeing internecine war-torn countries and claiming asylum in the UK, for which the munitions involved in the conflict have been directly supplied by the UK.

Recent examples?

Not up one what's happening in the Middle East, or Eastern Europe, but i know that the UK is indirectly (through Corporate interests - gas pipelines, etc) and directly (through special forces training and arms supply) involved in assisting the military junta in Myanmar (burma).

UK's not the only one, US and Australia are there as well. Not sure if thats led to asylum seekers reaching UK. But i would hazard a guess that if Myanmar was closer to the British Isle you would see a few more refugee's.

There are no countries with clean hands, IMO.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:14 am

peewee wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Ironically enough, it's the reason why I'll bring the thread full circle and make a point that possibly a lot of immigrants have fled some waring countries and into the UK - one of the main arm's dealers that probably gave the tools and the means for the death and destruction in their land in the first place.

Could you cite some recent examples?

Load of Africans (not sure where from, but the place is in chaos) but a load have been trying to flee across the water to France. They've even made hand made rafts. I do believe that this had been mentioned on the news a good few times now. Others have tried in other locations by trying to traverse the Red Sea and get across into places like Turkey. It's true that if there's conflicts in places, people will try to leave if it's bad enough.

do you mean like this guy who was so terrified of the troubles in somalia that he went back there after murdering a british police officer.

the fact is mate these places are not in as much conflict as they would have you believe, sure they are poor countries but for them to make out their lives are in danger on a daily basis is wrong.

A 27-year-old man has been charged with the murder of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky.

Mustaf Jama was also charged with robbery, two charges of possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life and two charges of possessing a prohibited weapon.

Pc Beshenivsky, 38, was shot on November 18, 2005 as she responded to an alarm at a travel agent's in Bradford.

Jama will appear before Leeds Magistrates on Friday morning.

Jama was taken to a police station in Leeds after being arrested and extradited from Somalia.

Five people have been convicted in connection with Pc Beshenivsky's death.

The policewoman was shot as she arrived at the scene of a robbery at the Universal Express travel agency on the day of her youngest daughter's fourth birthday.

Her colleague, Pc Teresa Milburn, was also shot and injured during the robbery.

Not sure about Somalia, mate. But Sudan is up sh*t avenue at the moment. I think that's where most of those refugees are coming from at the moment. Anyway, Africa is a volatile place and nobody gives a sh*t about it either. There's probably stuff happening there now that we don't know about that is terrible. How long was it before the western world realized about the genocide in Rwanda, and even when they did know, nobody cared. Fact is, big arm's dealing countries get rich off their backs, and when the sh*t hits the fan, they do nothing to help. Why should they? It's the poor killing the poor, whom profit was made from. If those people want to get out of places like that, I don't blame them.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:15 am

all countries have their own agendas that the public really do not know anything about. I am sure there are arms deals that we know nothing about, I am sure we initiate conflicts to suit our own benefit, i am sure we train people and arm militia to fight against governments.

but i fail to see the relevance here as to why that means we should open out borders to anyone, there should still be strict guidelines

by **babu** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:17 am

Not saying that peewee. was just responding to LFC2007's question.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:19 am

peewee wrote:all countries have their own agendas that the public really do not know anything about. I am sure there are arms deals that we know nothing about, I am sure we initiate conflicts to suit our own benefit, i am sure we train people and arm militia to fight against governments.

but i fail to see the relevance here as to why that means we should open out borders to anyone, there should still be strict guidelines

It's not the case of opening the borders. It's just that you can be sure that a good few of these illegals have come from places, that like you've said, have been created from a mess that the western governments have made just to line their own pockets. If it's not the main issue, then it is at least a small part of it.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:20 am

Emerald Red wrote:Anyway, Africa is a volatile place and nobody gives a sh*t about it either.

because they are not oil rich mate. they do have an oil industry and many western workers have been kidnapped in the last year in africa, but the oil market there is not big enough to generate any real interest. one of the big problems in many african countries is corruption, the government take the profits and the people are left with very little, this leads to rebels and ergo leads to conflict so you end up with civil wars, I am sure if any of these countries had anything to offer then you would see us involved more.

it would be wrong to say that we are not involved in anyway as we do have a peacekeeping role is many african countries were there is conflict, but peacekeeping is different to sorting it out

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:26 am

peewee wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Anyway, Africa is a volatile place and nobody gives a sh*t about it either.

because they are not oil rich mate. they do have an oil industry and many western workers have been kidnapped in the last year in africa, but the oil market there is not big enough to generate any real interest. one of the big problems in many african countries is corruption, the government take the profits and the people are left with very little, this leads to rebels and ergo leads to conflict so you end up with civil wars, I am sure if any of these countries had anything to offer then you would see us involved more.

it would be wrong to say that we are not involved in anyway as we do have a peacekeeping role is many african countries were there is conflict, but peacekeeping is different to sorting it out

It's not a question of oil or anything like that. There are valuable resourses there, mostly being gold and diamonds. If you have a country that is poor and with no real means to by anything expensive (like guns and such) then you create a separate problem. Hence the diamond trade or blood diamonds. Create a conflict there, and you don't need to go in and invade and dig for them. The starving natives will do that for you, in exchange for weapons to protect themselves.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:29 am

The whole arms thing was insulting the yanks, because the people we have trouble with are the ones they yanks armed in the first place ! Hence my quote from Kenny Everett...
Round em up....
Put em in a field....

AND BOMB THE B@STARDS !!!!

I do agree with the amount of immigrants here. The legal ones from our area have had a great effect, they have worked there socks of since ive known them and so I am proud to have people like them here. They put me to shame, im looking for work they have got off there backside and done the work. However there are so many spongers coming here claiming benefits to pay for the bombs they have to wear to repay our kindness in them by showing them refuge. Its no surprise to me so many people from britain are jumping ship.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:35 am

Either way, by bullet, stick or stone, people will always kill each other, or at least find a way, so it a moot point about the arms dealer thing. All that does, is just make it more convenient for them to kill.

Anyway, the world is a small place now, and getting smaller. It's no wonder strange folk from across the land and water are coming knocking on our door.

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