Liverpool FC Forum

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:43 pm

Liverpool 1 Arsenal 1
Oct 29 2007 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

ACCORDING to general consensus, Arsenal are currently playing football from another planet.

Style, verve, imagination, creativity, cutting edge, individual brilliance and collective cohesion. You name it, they’ve got it.

But yesterday, Liverpool – and a Liverpool side apparently in crisis, no less – came within 10 minutes of beating a team which Pepe Reina later described as one of the best he has ever played against.

And when you think of some of the teams the Spanish stopper has faced in recent seasons – AC Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester United and Chelsea, to name but five – that is one hell of a compliment.

It is easy to see why the Gunners are currently the critics’ choice and if they carry on performing like they did at Anfield then there is every likelihood that they will be at the front of the queue when Premiership winners’ medals are handed out at the end of the season.

But had it not been for Liverpool’s injury curse striking again we might today be talking of a famous victory for Rafa Benitez’s men because, until abductor muscles twinged and metatarsals cracked, they looked on course to deny Arsenal a share of the spoils.

The North Londoners played the better football throughout what was a hugely entertaining clash, but it takes a lot more than pretty passing to win matches in England, and at times their strict adherence to the beautiful game left them lacking the kind of cutting edge that Liverpool had.

Reina may well have been impressed by what he saw of Arsenal but, in truth, he was far from being the busier of the two keepers with Almunia called into action far more often than his compatriot prior to Liverpool’s injuries kicking in.

Both Steven Gerrard and Peter Crouch were thwarted by outstanding saves which could have doubled the lead Liverpool had established when the captain came up with the kind of strike befitting his 400th appearance in a red shirt.

Before this game, Benitez had spoken glowingly of Gerrard’s return to form, describing him as “back to his best” and telling anyone who would care to listen that after a lean period his star midfielder was now ready to hit the heights again.

So much so that when the Reds manager worked out his tactics for this clash his whole game plan was based on coming up with a set-up which gave Gerrard the freedom to express himself and release him into the positions from which he can cause most danger.

The “wingless wonders” may have been a Sir Alf Ramsey creation in 1966, but lacking genuine wingers of his own Benitez came up with his own version of that masterplan with Gerrard playing just behind Torres, with Voronin and Kuyt either side.

In the first half, Gerrard was the star performer, flourishing in the space the system afforded him and scoring a typically wonderful goal from a free kick after Alonso had been felled on the edge of the box by Fabregas.

At this stage, Arsenal were threatening in possession without ever really looking like they were about to make the breakthrough, bringing back memories of a certain Houllierism when the French boss uttered the immortal words: “You keep the ball and we’ll keep the result”.

The problem with that kind of attitude is possession really is nine tenths of the law in football and the longer Arsenal kept the ball the more likely it became that they would equalise, and the less likely it became that Liverpool would grab a decisive second goal.

And so it proved with 80 minutes on the clock when Hleb held the ball long enough for Fabregas to break free of the Reds back line before picking him out with a wonderfully weighted pass which the Spaniard calmly poked past Reina.

It was a goal that had been coming since Alonso limped off the pitch with a recurrence of his metatarsal injury and it was a goal that Arsenal undoubtedly deserved.

They could even have won the game had either Fabregas or Bendtner produced more controlled finishes after shots had come back off the woodwork.

Defeat would have been cruel on Liverpool, though, as whatever they lacked in technical ability and flair they more than made up for with grit, determination and no little passion.

Javier Mascherano was the embodiment of this spirit, covering every blade of grass and putting in tackle after tackle until injury reduced his role to that of a virtual passenger.

This is typical of Liverpool’s season. Every time they seem to be making progress another important player picks up a knock and one step forward is followed by two steps back.

It is no coincidence that when everyone was fit at the start of the season they were playing some fantastic football, looking to all the world like a team that was finally ready to challenge for the title.

But then Alonso and Daniel Agger were both struck by the curse of the metatarsal and, all of a sudden, they stalled.

Injuries are part and parcel of the season for every club, of course, but rarely can a side have suffered so many injuries to so many key performers in such a short space of time.

This has played havoc with the cohesion of the side and left Benitez scratching his head wondering if a lack of fit players will force him to temporarily abandon his beloved rotation policy.

With a dwindling number of fit players to choose from Benitez will soon be forced into reverting to that old Shankly adage of “same team as last year”, only it will be out of necessity, rather than choice.

But he can take great heart from the fact that when he needed his players to stand up and be counted they did just that and, with a bit more luck, it might just have been good enough to secure all three points.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:58 pm

peewee wrote:from football365

Liverpool remain an indefinable work in debatable progress. Consistent only by their inconsistency, they are a plethora of contradictions: Undefeated yet unconvincing, powerful but bereft of authority, resolute without inspiring confidence.

A mirror of their manager, Liverpool are impossible to work out.

Rafa's first surprise of the afternoon was the introduction of a new formation. Designed to harass, it was vindicated by Steven Gerrard's sixth-minute opener. Yet the benefits were merely temporary, and the Gunners subsequently simply played out of their opponents' reach. That Benitez felt compelled to change his side's formation in order to obstruct their opponents was instructive. That is not generally the method or mentality of a title-aspiring team. The absence of authority in the Liverpool team - depending on your point of view, either the cause or the consequence of the change in system - was obvious and, ultimately, telling.

The loss of the under-rated Xabi Alonso was critical and deprived Benitez of one of the few technically-accomplished players he possesses. That the Spaniard has apparently suffered a reoccurrence of his broken metatarsal added considerable insult to literal injury.

Yet injuries are a smokescreen for Liverpool's wider problems, summed up by the deployment of Dirk Kuyt and Andriy Voronin, neither of whom had the pace or trickery to cause bother, out wide. What were the thoughts of Ryan Babel and Yossi Benayoun as they looked on from the bench? Somewhere at Liverpool, a good team is threatening to break loose. It would be a relief if Benitez finally unleashed it.

Hmmm, Alonso portrayed as an under-rated and technically-gifted player that we missed as soon as he went off and a question raised as to why Voronin and Kuyt were selected ahead of Babel and Benayoun given the formation and the way Arsenal were likely to play...

I think someone at 365 must have nicked some of my earlier comments in this thread. :;):

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:00 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
In pure footballing terms we were outclassed and were lucky not to have been beaten yesterday,

Dont agree with the "lucky not to have been beaten.

We'll leave it at that hey Woof.

Que Woofs favourite icon at the mo

Suggest you put down the Fosters and watch the game again mate. Although as time went on I thought we might sneak it , a 3-1 win for Arsenal would not have flattered them.

Suggest you put down your pint of Vodka and your wacky backy. Because if you felt we could of sneaked it, then surely a 1-0 win would not of flattered us.

Yes we rode our luck but talk to the .....

Cause the face aint listening dawg.

Leon back me up geeze, you know I'm right.

"Talk to the hand!" :wwww

Ahhh, the nineties are alive and well! :nod

by **heimdall** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:17 pm

I'm just feeling numb at the moment and very depressed, why can't we play like Arsenal? THAT is what I want out of a Liverpool team, pity I can't do as so many tell me to do and just go and support them instead

No I'm a Liverpool fan through and through but my God Arsenal are a different dimension to us, how are we ever going to win the league when there are teams like them and Man Utd in it ?

I won't criticise Rafa to much for that game although I don't quite get his obsession with Kuyt and Vornonin and I think he must have got some very bad advice regarding Alonso and Torres, the physio and medical staff want shooting :veryangry

but overall the tactics were good enough, it's just that we are no where near good enough as individuals or a team :sniffle

by **polygemus** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:22 pm

this is pure stupidity from rafa, risking Alonso and Torres before they are fully fit. and playing Voronin and Kuyt in wing positions.

rafa out....

by **dawson99** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:31 pm

polygemus wrote:this is pure stupidity from rafa, risking Alonso and Torres before they are fully fit. and playing Voronin and Kuyt in wing positions.

rafa out....

and if they hadnt played youd probably be saying:

why didnt he play torres and alonso, rafa out' :no

stevie played his best game in a LONG time yesterday, that alone is reason to be happier than usual

by **kobashi** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:50 pm

Some people are saying we played the way we did because arsenal are full of confidence so we couldnt try and match the way they play.

Not being funny but how about all the other games this season. It is not like we have been playing that attractive passing football against birmingham or tottenham for example.

When arsenal fans were singing "Liverpool Hoof the Ball" could you honestly say "your wrong, we don't play like that"

by **burjennio** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:57 pm

Gerrard was great, Masca and Carragher were awesome, I wish it was the attacking qualitites of the side that were being praised but so be it. Voronin hasn't looked the same player since Stevie yelled at him against Tottenham

In all seriousness I was slighty annoyed when I saw this post

I'm just feeling numb at the moment and very depressed, why can't we play like Arsenal? THAT is what I want out of a Liverpool team, pity I can't do as so many tell me to do and just go and support them instead
No I'm a Liverpool fan through and through but my God Arsenal are a different dimension to us, how are we ever going to win the league when there are teams like them and Man Utd in it ?

We're not Arsenal, and with the current players we have, not to mention the injuries suffered during the match yesterday, we are not gonna play with the passing precision that they do but its not like that team was built overnight, it's been shaped over the last several years with youngsters being trained to play that way since arriving at the club seasons ago. FWIW LFC on song is every bit as exciting as Arsenal IMHO, but Benitez and Wenger have 2 very different styles, so if you want to watch the Arsenal style football, support Arsenal

And in the words of Penn Jilette of Bullshit fame

AND THEN THERE'S THIS AS_SHOLE

polygemus Posted on Oct. 29 2007,14:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is pure stupidity from rafa, risking Alonso and Torres before they are fully fit. and playing Voronin and Kuyt in wing positions.

rafa out....

I believe everyone has the right to an opinion, but to suggest that Rafa would deliberately risk 2 of his most important players without believing 100% that they were fit as well as consulting the medical staff and the players themselves is not only laughable but utterly idiotic, and nothing more that a rouse to spout your anti-Raffa propaganda

Have a word with yourself

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:03 pm

heimdall wrote:I'm just feeling numb at the moment and very depressed, why can't we play like Arsenal? THAT is what I want out of a Liverpool team, pity I can't do as so many tell me to do and just go and support them instead
No I'm a Liverpool fan through and through but my God Arsenal are a different dimension to us, how are we ever going to win the league when there are teams like them and Man Utd in it ?

I won't criticise Rafa to much for that game although I don't quite get his obsession with Kuyt and Vornonin and I think he must have got some very bad advice regarding Alonso and Torres, the physio and medical staff want shooting but overall the tactics were good enough, it's just that we are no where near good enough as individuals or a team

Yawn.

I thought the formation Rafa played yesterday was spot on and i would like to see it used more often, especially when we have all the players match fit. Ok I dont understand why Voronin was used instead of Babel but that can only be a fatigue problem as i though the young Dutch lad would have been perfect for the left side of the 4-3-3 yesterday.

The way we played with Alonso showed that although we have a large squad we have not the quality to be able to replace the players who are considered the spine of the team.

People moaning about how we have not got any youngsters and Arsenal have all the best young players, can you just remind me whose youngsters have won the Youth Cup for the second time running? Young players like Spearing, Pacheco, San Jose, Hobbs, Putterill, Bruna, Insua, Lucas and Darby amongst others are all very promising youngsters who over time will be knocking on the first team door.

It's this spoilt brat, I want it now attitude which does my head in as people dont sit down and think of the bigger picture. Wenger didnt just sign all them youngsters in the summer and now they have instantly become superstars. He has nurtured them into the first team and made them into the players they are now.

Rafa is doing this with his current crop of kids and players such as Pacheco are as highly regarded in Spain as Fabregas was when Wenger took him from Barcelona reserves.

I'll go back again to Ferguson. He was one game away from getting the sack as the mancs were struggling but if I remember correctly although they were struggling in the league they went on to win the FA cup which kept him in his job. Who knows where Man utd could be at the moment if they had sacked Ferguson. Mid table or even another Leeds but they stuck by their manager and over the years have reaped the benefits of this.

Although not out of it i think this season we are going to struggle to sustain a title challenge. Not because i dont think Rafa is capable of this but the injuries are getting worse and its key players who are picking up the knocks.

by **KOPMATT** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:27 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Avi Cohen wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Avi Cohen wrote:We played 4-5-1. At Anfield .

Don't know about you, but that sounds like Birmingham at Old Twatford to me.

We were up for it today and played better than we have done in weeks. The team played close together and not spread out all over the park. Saying that, Arsenal should have won it. Kuyt and Riise looked so off the mark today it wasn't funny. How many attacks broke down easily because of their ineptitude? I was a big defender of Kuyt but now he looks like Garcia minus the tricks.

4-5-1 with two strikers in midfield. At home I saw Kuyt and Vorinin way back in our own half far to often. I see what Rafa wanted to do but if u allow a side like Arsenal so much possession its only a matter of time before they cut u open.

Arsenal were never going to come to anfield and sit back with two banks of four so I would of liked to see a more attacking lineup but Rafa is cautious and I think he was so frightened of the arsenal counter attacks. It ended up with us playing on the counter.

We still played a defensive line-up at home. I hate to see that. That kind of stuff sends signals to the players - we're not as good as them. And we can be, if we're allowed. We got two of the best passers of the ball in the PL - Alonso and Gerrard - but they're being ignored by a negative manager.

Okay, so we might have been torn apart. But I'd rather die on my feet than on my knees.

How is 3 strikers defensive?

The mind boggles at times...

I was thinking the same Lando!
IMO, we need to see how Babel plays upfront alongside either Kuyt or Crouch as for me Voronin just isn't doing much to justify a starting place in the line-up. As for "all the investment" in the summer and expecting more Torres is obviously class! And Babel to me is a striker not a winger but hasn't really played in the front role yet? Maybe Rafa will use him there soon? Hope so! As for width the only wide player I see at anfield at the moment is kewell. I know alot of people are cheesed off with but he's all that we have at the moment with the winger style about him.
Why not give Jack Hobbs a run alongside Carragher or is he not good enuf? But he's talked about as a future CB so why not give him a carck and see how he goes?
Eveyone is shouting down Rafa at the moment with his Rotation policy but no one was doing this when we went on a 18 game unbeaten run with 11 clean sheets. Just because collectively we're not playing well lets have a go at the Rafa's rotation policy, yes there are some disadvantages with it but also he's proved for him that it worked in the past so give him a break and lets just get behind Him, the team and everyone else at the club coz he's the only man out there to get us thru this IMO!
YNWA!

by **steviec** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:20 pm

Torres still hasn't adjusted to the pace and passion of the game on this Island, injured or not. He has no hunger for it.

by **heimdall** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:24 pm

stmichael wrote:
heimdall wrote:I'm just feeling numb at the moment and very depressed, why can't we play like Arsenal? THAT is what I want out of a Liverpool team, pity I can't do as so many tell me to do and just go and support them instead
No I'm a Liverpool fan through and through but my God Arsenal are a different dimension to us, how are we ever going to win the league when there are teams like them and Man Utd in it ?

I won't criticise Rafa to much for that game although I don't quite get his obsession with Kuyt and Vornonin and I think he must have got some very bad advice regarding Alonso and Torres, the physio and medical staff want shooting but overall the tactics were good enough, it's just that we are no where near good enough as individuals or a team

Yawn.

I thought the formation Rafa played yesterday was spot on and i would like to see it used more often, especially when we have all the players match fit. Ok I dont understand why Voronin was used instead of Babel but that can only be a fatigue problem as i though the young Dutch lad would have been perfect for the left side of the 4-3-3 yesterday.

The way we played with Alonso showed that although we have a large squad we have not the quality to be able to replace the players who are considered the spine of the team.

People moaning about how we have not got any youngsters and Arsenal have all the best young players, can you just remind me whose youngsters have won the Youth Cup for the second time running? Young players like Spearing, Pacheco, San Jose, Hobbs, Putterill, Bruna, Insua, Lucas and Darby amongst others are all very promising youngsters who over time will be knocking on the first team door.

It's this spoilt brat, I want it now attitude which does my head in as people dont sit down and think of the bigger picture. Wenger didnt just sign all them youngsters in the summer and now they have instantly become superstars. He has nurtured them into the first team and made them into the players they are now.

Rafa is doing this with his current crop of kids and players such as Pacheco are as highly regarded in Spain as Fabregas was when Wenger took him from Barcelona reserves.

I'll go back again to Ferguson. He was one game away from getting the sack as the mancs were struggling but if I remember correctly although they were struggling in the league they went on to win the FA cup which kept him in his job. Who knows where Man utd could be at the moment if they had sacked Ferguson. Mid table or even another Leeds but they stuck by their manager and over the years have reaped the benefits of this.

Although not out of it i think this season we are going to struggle to sustain a title challenge. Not because i dont think Rafa is capable of this but the injuries are getting worse and its key players who are picking up the knocks.

Good god you accuse me of being boring, you say the same thing in every post mate. If you'd read mine I actually praised Rafa for the tactics yesterday!!! It is just depressing how far behind we are Arsenal and Man Utd in terms of player ability. And on the subject of the youngsters am I really led to believe that none of them are better strikers than Kuyt and or Voronin, if that is Rafa's opinion then I am extremely worried, how many yougsters have been brought into the team under Rafa, erm let me see would that be none!!! Even Houllier nurtured our youngsters more than Rafa who would rather play a free Bosman :censored:

striker like Voronin than one of our promising youngsters!!
And actually I do kind of blame rafa and/or the mdeicalstaff for risking Torres and Alonso. If he had come out and said they are not ready then everybody would have accepted that.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:25 pm

steviec wrote:Torres still hasn't adjusted to the pace and passion of the game on this Island, injured or not. He has no hunger for it.

WTF

by **steviec** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:26 pm

Apparently at half time, Wenger decided that he wanted even more possession for Arsenal in the second half, so he went next door and begged Rafa to put Sissoko on

by **heimdall** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:27 pm

steviec wrote:Torres still hasn't adjusted to the pace and passion of the game on this Island, injured or not. He has no hunger for it.

And the award for most stupid comment goes to...

Are you serious, Torres is the only viable striker we have, he is absolute class, he was playing with an injury yesterday!!

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