Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bruno Zidane!** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:32 pm

As ive only just started readin this thread ive got to reply to a post made by Big niall on the first page.... i was never houlliers biggest fan but i appricated everything he did for the club in his first couple of years, for you niall to say the sort of sh!te you posted in the 1st page is a disgrace for a supposed LFC fan. answer these questions
1. Did you cheer when we beat Birmingham??
2. Did you cheer when we beat Arsenal so gloriously in the last 5 mins like it was the greatest cup cup back ever?
3. Did you cheer when we beat Alaves when we scored the golden goal?
4. Did you love every minute of the League cup win against the scum?
5. Did you enjoy the community shield win that little bit more cos we beat the scum?
If you answered no to any of these questions then go and support the scum or the blue sh!te or somethin cos we dont need gobsh!tes like you supportin us, if Chelsea, manu or Arsenal had achived what we did they would still be talkin about it but cos weve got such a great past people think they can knock anythink we win that isnt the league or euro cup. You can only win the competions youre in you t!t and that season we happened to be in the league cup, fa and uefa and what did we do.... yes win the lot.

Houllier gave us some good years, just admit it.

by **ckay** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:36 pm

I'll second that!!!!

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:00 pm

big niall is goin over the top with that attitude.its not as bad as he makes out. but all that "fivecups" thing, well there's some truth in that. how can the community shield and the euro-super cup qualify? they are both games you play just after you've won a competition, but you get a cup for winning it. its not a league or a tournament. they are just one game events. we didnt deserve to win the fa cup, everyone knows that. the league cup was a stroll against poor oppostion (birmngham year), and even then it was far from a comfortable
win. we did deserve to win the uefa cup as we beat the best opposition to get there, and the final was boss.

dont think that detracts from how happy it made me on all occasions. but if yer gonna be a supporter, at least be truthful. you've got to get the balance right between support and criticism, and the only way to do that is to be truthful. there's nothin more embarrassin sumtimes when supporters just cant see the faults and everyones rippin you. the bluesh*** give us hell over all that "fivecups" thing and they're right, for reasons stated above.

by **Bruno Zidane!** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:10 pm

Well im sorry if some things just arnt good enough for you, all the best rafa in your quest to put the smiles back on these liverpool supporters by winnin 6 euro cups on the bounce cos sh!tty little trebles are pointless, now go back to have a sh!te on your diamond encrusted bog seat you divvy

P.S if Everton would have done that treble it would have been there greatest ever achievement and they would still be talkin about it. i cant believe you agree with the scum who think were all murderers, do you agree with them on that as well???

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:17 pm

dont talk shi* you idiot.

why dont you read my post properly and you'll see what i'm sayin. whats all that shi* about murderers? whats all that for.

answer me one question did we deserve to win the fa cup.

you're the type of embarrassin fan i'm goin about. people laugh at you cos you'll never admit the truth, when its so obvious.

also, if you bother to read my previous posts you'll see how much i liked, trusted and supported houllier until it was unfixable.

stop havin a go at people becos they may criticise fairly.

by **Bruno Zidane!** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:35 pm

no i think your gettin it wrong fella,
what im sayin is that when we won the trophies regardless of whether we deserved them or not, did it bother you how we won them??
Did you think "r well i dont think we really deserved that, im not gonna celebrate that much" No you never cos in cup finals its all about winnin and not how you done it.
Do man u go on about how lucky they were in there treble winning season, no.
So why should we....

I cant believe the mans not even part of liverpool and still people are havin a go at him, Thats embarassin mate.

By the way Rafa Benitez is the new gaffer!

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:59 pm

very interesting point about man u and the european cup.

all the mancs wont admit it but we all know that they didnt deserve it. exactly the same with us.

i wasnt havin a go at houllier. i was replyin to the blinded fans who wont see sense. dont get me wrong i'd love to win all trophies every year by default, but i would prefer to win by deserving it. and in reply to your comment about winning.its not all about winning. i want us to desreve to win. i want us to show that we are the best team. i wouldnt be as happy winning things knowing we're not the best team, although of course i'd go off me barnet like evryone else if we stick the winner in with 2 seconds left, there's no better feeling.

i will give benitez my full support right from the start, and have already made a point on another forum that i'm not arsed if we dont win anything this year.iwont get on his back. and i've said i'm not gettin carried away. i'm not bloodthirsty for success. i'll be prepared to give him more of a chance than anyone.

by **fivecups** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:54 pm

Bruno Zidane! wrote:As ive only just started readin this thread ive got to reply to a post made by Big niall on the first page.... i was never houlliers biggest fan but i appricated everything he did for the club in his first couple of years, for you niall to say the sort of sh!te you posted in the 1st page is a disgrace for a supposed LFC fan. answer these questions
1. Did you cheer when we beat Birmingham??
2. Did you cheer when we beat Arsenal so gloriously in the last 5 mins like it was the greatest cup cup back ever?
3. Did you cheer when we beat Alaves when we scored the golden goal?
4. Did you love every minute of the League cup win against the scum?
5. Did you enjoy the community shield win that little bit more cos we beat the scum?
If you answered no to any of these questions then go and support the scum or the blue sh!te or somethin cos we dont need gobsh!tes like you supportin us, if Chelsea, manu or Arsenal had achived what we did they would still be talkin about it but cos weve got such a great past people think they can knock anythink we win that isnt the league or euro cup. You can only win the competions youre in you t!t and that season we happened to be in the league cup, fa and uefa and what did we do.... yes win the lot.

Houllier gave us some good years, just admit it.

Did I hear my name mentioned?

Add to that the fact that we did the double over Everton and United. We beat Arsenal 4-0. We were unbeaten in our last 10 games having already played 53 that season. We finished third, one point behind Arsenal and qualified for the champions league.

That was a great season. I think its memory has been sullied in some people's minds by the 3 seasons that followed it.

by **fivecups** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:59 pm

John Barnes' Granny wrote:4. Heskey is much derided, but people are forgetting what a big talent he was at Leicester. Man UTD and Arsenal were also interested in Heskey and Houllier's signing of him at the time was seen as a coup. Much of the blame for Heskey's poor form and underachievement must lie with Emile Heskey.

Houllier's abilities are limited and he depends a lot on his own hard work and effort, and the decision to fire him was correct, but we cannot deny that for 3 years, he did fantastically well.

Agree with that JBG. People also forget how many quality goals Heskey scored in the 2000-2001 season and how much he contributed to its success.

Houllier did well for the first three years. Following the above season its hard to figure out why it went so wrong and why we went so far backwards.

by **RedorDead** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:47 pm

Agree with Jim morrison...I screamed with Joy at every achievement made under Houllier and I was a big supporter of his throughout his tenure (give or take the last 6 months)
The treble was unreal, it can't be denied a great achievement and I am so proud of it but we were lucky to get it, it's a fact. League positions are always the best indicator of success and we did good there too for a while, 4th, 3rd then 2nd - it is after that that we went down hill and confidence went though and that has effected the whole club.
Houllier did a great job, as a director of football he would be awesome - overseeing youth and training facilities and the like....his man management and tactics however were lacking somewhat, especially after his comeback from illness. The time was right to move on. He has left a great legacy, a good squad, a few more trophies in the cabinet and some great memories but now I am hoping rafa the Gaffer can take us onto the next stage. It's like Houllier made the cake and stuck it in the oven..I am hoping Rafa can take it out and put the icing on it...and I cannot believe I just wrote that!!!!

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:59 pm

****** ****** hot.

That last one there RedorDead was a bit of poetry, classic!!

100% true aswell.

by **RedorDead** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:19 am

lol...cheers Stu

by **begintoend** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:39 am

Houllier did average as a manager. Evans and Souness was worst. Houllier tactics was really lousy. He did not build the best team when the team was getting better. He puts many reasons to the many games he lost. How did he change Liverpool? His health has got nothing to do with his commitment. He has an equal responsibility in taking care of himself too. That's self discipline! GH loved the club, I supported him in as many times as he had made mistakes.

GH came in and had studied how Evans managed the team. He feels that the team was in terrible state. All us fans were happy as GH will take full control and bring in his revolution. GH bought players in. That is what any other manager would do! So this action was not significant. GH brought in some ideas for the academy. But he was not fully in charge of the academy when he has his hands full on the team itself. Winning some of the cups was not the greatest liverpool achievement. I admit 2nd place and the UEFA cup made me a happy fan.

Now what I think he did well was he built a very very solid defence in the form of Hypia and Henchoz. We have a very honourable defensive record than. I thought with that, he can build on it to achieve success. GH could maintain it for another season. But soon, his work seem to fall apart.

That's when he begins playing wrong tactics, and up till last season, he played our players in unfamiliar positions. GH knows his defence was getting weaker so he played more defensively and rely on counter attacks which he never really master this tactic fully. With some injuries to our players, he did not motivate the rest of the team further. The morale of the team hit us too.

For those who thought that last year's 4th position was well deserved, I was dissapointed. The gap difference with the top 3 and the way we clawed to 4th, we are not the elite of the premiership. As a man, I have no comments against GH. As a manager, GH brought lfc to a status, but he also brought it down. Give and take, I will not condemn him. But he is just average.

Now Benitez is in, looking a better outfit than GH was in the beginning, I give him my support. But I too will be just criticising his faults if he fails in some departments. Everyone here wants the club at its best, so all comments are fair. Do note that to be successful, one gotta admit the faults. GH did not. Forum-mates, please take all arguments at a lighter note.

by **Homebooby** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:10 am

There are those that criticise one manager and there are those that will always find good. That houllier actually achieved some major goals in his time at Anfield is without question and with hindsight it's arguable he should have been encouraged to step down after his heart problems.

As I have previously mentioned in other posts, I am not sure if it is because they never got to experience the club back when they were the phenomenal force that they once were, but they have been underachieving (according to high standards set by themselves) for nigh on 15 yrs.

My opinion is that Souness destroyed us and the repercussions of his butchery and policy of big spending over the nuturing of young talent are still being felt today. Some would argue that Dalglish couldn't do anything other than succeed with the squad that he inherited and that he got out in time before everything derailed....I personally disagree.

I believe that Houllier actually recognised that the sense of history and tradition had been lost and was attempting to re-instill that into the club. The thing is, when the culture has been lost, it takes a long time for it to filter back through.

I also realise that you'll be commenting on the conflict in what I am saying he was trying to do and the amount of foreign signing he was bringing in...but again, I'll refer to the word culture...that all takes a lot of time. The squad needed desperately to be sorted out and when you gut a team in the way that he did, any sense of Liverpool culture can't help but be lost. The remaining players didn't have a lot of it and the new incoming players had no point of reference to look to. At that point you have to look to the backroom people like Thommo, Sammy Lee etc to get that across and unfortunately, I think it is a long process.

This is why Stevie Gerrard is such a favourite with the fans as he represents everything that we look for in a Liverpool player. The pride, enthusiam, expectation, belief, will to win and a mentality that never gives up. There was a time when every player who pulled on a red shirt felt like that and I still think we won't see the success we are looking for until that is achieved.

It was definitely time for Houllier to go.....I am extremely curious to see how Benitez motivates the team and whether that (what I consider) tradition of self belief and pride will come back. I have a degree of reservation about it.

It was fairly controversial bringing in a Frenchman as a mgr rather than looking to an ex-pupil of the Liverpool way. If Benitez doesn't succeed, the cries will be for something more home grown, I am sure.

Shankly, Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish proved successful
souness and Evans weren't up to the job
Houlliers success remains debatable
the odds are still in favour of the old school

Call me old fashioned, but get Alan Hansen out of his old mans chair at the BBC and get him working there. I know he has stated he doesn't think he can handle the pressure of mgt itself as he suffered enough as a player.....let's get him in to fill the void of Thommo and Sammy Lee.

by **Big Niall** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 pm

CALM DOWN CALM DOWN!

Of course I cheered when LFC won those games but that doesn't mean they were great achievements, I mean if we score a late goal to beat West Brom at Anfield I'll cheer but that doesn't mean I think the team are legends.

My favourite comments are the one from Stu about "you are just like St John" Stu - I think St john is a bigger legend than you'll ever be (except in your mind - you knob) and the comment about we won every competition we entered that year - I could have sworn we entered the premiership that year - am I mistaken?

If you supported GH fair enough, just putting my view, if you don't like it I'll try not to cry out loud.

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