Liverpool FC Forum

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:58 pm

Avi Cohen wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Avi Cohen wrote:We played 4-5-1. At Anfield .

Don't know about you, but that sounds like Birmingham at Old Twatford to me.

We were up for it today and played better than we have done in weeks. The team played close together and not spread out all over the park. Saying that, Arsenal should have won it. Kuyt and Riise looked so off the mark today it wasn't funny. How many attacks broke down easily because of their ineptitude? I was a big defender of Kuyt but now he looks like Garcia minus the tricks.

4-5-1 with two strikers in midfield. At home I saw Kuyt and Vorinin way back in our own half far to often. I see what Rafa wanted to do but if u allow a side like Arsenal so much possession its only a matter of time before they cut u open.

Arsenal were never going to come to anfield and sit back with two banks of four so I would of liked to see a more attacking lineup but Rafa is cautious and I think he was so frightened of the arsenal counter attacks. It ended up with us playing on the counter.

We still played a defensive line-up at home. I hate to see that. That kind of stuff sends signals to the players - we're not as good as them. And we can be, if we're allowed. We got two of the best passers of the ball in the PL - Alonso and Gerrard - but they're being ignored by a negative manager.

Okay, so we might have been torn apart. But I'd rather die on my feet than on my knees.

How is 3 strikers defensive?

The mind boggles at times...

by **Kash_Mountain** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:59 pm

Rafa IMO needs an assistant and needs one now. I know Rafa and Pako had some disputes but they've known each other for a long time so surely they can sought out thier differences.

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:12 pm

Well I thought it was a much more encouraging performance from the lads to be honest. Masherano can't have played better in a Liverpool shirt and Gerrard looks like he is getting it back so there was encouragment there, and the battling qualities we displayed throughout the ninety minutes were heartening to see.

Given the fact we've picked up a couple more injuries though, and I have to say given the fact that there was a quite obvious gap between the two teams, I think it may be time for people to calm down a bit in terms of what we are expecting to do this season. We aren't in all probablility going to win the League based on where we currently are, and it may now be time to take stock of where we need to go.

Clearly there are a couple of imbalances in the squad which need to be addressed, and equally clearly there are a couple of players who are probably not going to be there with us should we make the next step. I hope though that people don't get too carried away in their "bigging up" of Arsenal to our detriment. They are an excellent team, but it is my strong belief that Man Utd will beat them next weekend before opening up a gap which will se them win the League fairly comfortably.

Like I said, our chance to win the league in my opinion is becoming smaller this season, but if we can learn fron the undoubted and well documented mistakes we have made, we can come back with this core of players and our manager and win trophies, I'm certain of that.

by **metalhead** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:15 pm

bigmick wrote:but if we can learn fron the undoubted and well documented mistakes we have made, we can come back with this core of players and our manager and win trophies, I'm certain of that.

Thats the worrying part Bigmick, do you really think that Benitez would learn from his mistakes after 2 or 3 of trying the same routine of rotation and tactics?

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:25 pm

Avi Cohen wrote:We played 4-5-1. At Anfield .

Don't know about you, but that sounds like Birmingham at Old Twatford to me.

We were up for it today and played better than we have done in weeks. The team played close together and not spread out all over the park. Saying that, Arsenal should have won it. Kuyt and Riise looked so off the mark today it wasn't funny. How many attacks broke down easily because of their ineptitude? I was a big defender of Kuyt but now he looks like Garcia minus the tricks.

Mate, first off, I think it was meant to be more of a 4-2-3-1 but the Torres injury mucked that up a touch. More importantly, we played 4-5-1 against them at Anfield last year as well and won 4-1 so the formation isn't necessarily ineffective nor negative.

by **destro** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:31 pm

I didn't get to see the match because I was Paintballing, my first thought was a draw Against a team that have been blowing other teams apart was not the wost result, however after reading a few of theses posts it would seem that once again we didn't perform ?

Is this a fair assessment, I'm going to watch MOTD2 and see for myself with no doubt very limited highlights

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:34 pm

destro wrote:I didn't get to see the match because I was Paintballing, my first thought was a draw Against a team that have been blowing other teams apart was not the wost result, however after reading a few of theses posts it would seem that once again we didn't perform ?

Is this a fair assessment, I'm going to watch MOTD2 and see for myself with no doubt very limited highlights

More that Arsenal were just not allowing us to perform.

We couldn't keep the ball.

8 shots to 10 tells you it's not like we were overrun.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:41 pm

The lads worked their socks of today and should be applauded for that. The tactics were designed to stop a rampant Arsenal team from playing, which some see as negative but I see as realistic given the gulf in recent form betwen the two sides. So, I can't criticize the effort nor the tactics.

But I do question the team selection and the Arbeloa substitution. I just don't see the value of having Kuyt and Voronin in wide positions against a team that was undoubtedly going to have a lot of possession. If you're going to try and clog up the middle without the ball but have players that can break with pace and show so creativity in the final third when on the ball, why not have Babel and Benayoun in the wide positions? Both would offer a lot more than either Voronin or Kuyt on and off the ball in wide areas.

For me, we were lucky to go in one up at half time, as they were running as ragged. But, Rafa did get the lads to settle down and put a foot on the ball in the second half and we looked a much better side. Especially when things flowed through Alonso. Arsenal even looked like they might be running out of ideas.

Then Xabi got hurt and it all went pear-shaped because Arbeloa is no DM. As such, surely it would have made more sense to have Sissoko or Lucas on the bench in case Alonso couldn't complete the match? Alternatively, Arbeloa could have gone to LB, Riise moved up to LM, Benayoun moved into the hole and Gerrard dropped back next to Mascherano if Rafa wanted to preserve the shape. The last thing we needed was a fella playing CM that was new to the position trying to contain some of the most mobile and tricky midfielders in the league. No wonder Fabregas waltzed in so effortlessly for the goal. :no

In the end, I'm disappointed with the point because I think, with the right personnel on the pitch, Rafa's tactics could have secured all three points. I'm certainly glad to get something out of the match, of course, but I can't help what wonder what might have been.

by **puroresu** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:43 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Avi Cohen wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Avi Cohen wrote:We played 4-5-1. At Anfield .

Don't know about you, but that sounds like Birmingham at Old Twatford to me.

We were up for it today and played better than we have done in weeks. The team played close together and not spread out all over the park. Saying that, Arsenal should have won it. Kuyt and Riise looked so off the mark today it wasn't funny. How many attacks broke down easily because of their ineptitude? I was a big defender of Kuyt but now he looks like Garcia minus the tricks.

4-5-1 with two strikers in midfield. At home I saw Kuyt and Vorinin way back in our own half far to often. I see what Rafa wanted to do but if u allow a side like Arsenal so much possession its only a matter of time before they cut u open.

Arsenal were never going to come to anfield and sit back with two banks of four so I would of liked to see a more attacking lineup but Rafa is cautious and I think he was so frightened of the arsenal counter attacks. It ended up with us playing on the counter.

We still played a defensive line-up at home. I hate to see that. That kind of stuff sends signals to the players - we're not as good as them. And we can be, if we're allowed. We got two of the best passers of the ball in the PL - Alonso and Gerrard - but they're being ignored by a negative manager.

Okay, so we might have been torn apart. But I'd rather die on my feet than on my knees.

How is 3 strikers defensive?

The mind boggles at times...

3 strikers? 2 of those were played in midfield. whenever arsenal had the ball they were back in our half. When I saw the lineup I was excited but soon realised it wasnt 4-3-3 at all.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:44 pm

destro wrote:I didn't get to see the match because I was Paintballing, my first thought was a draw Against a team that have been blowing other teams apart was not the wost result, however after reading a few of theses posts it would seem that once again we didn't perform ?

Is this a fair assessment, I'm going to watch MOTD2 and see for myself with no doubt very limited highlights

Are you on a wind up or what ?

by **destro** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:44 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
destro wrote:I didn't get to see the match because I was Paintballing, my first thought was a draw Against a team that have been blowing other teams apart was not the wost result, however after reading a few of theses posts it would seem that once again we didn't perform ?

Is this a fair assessment, I'm going to watch MOTD2 and see for myself with no doubt very limited highlights

More that Arsenal were just not allowing us to perform.

We couldn't keep the ball.

8 shots to 10 tells you it's not like we were overrun.

So I should take the "Doom and gloom" posts with a pinch of salt then until I have watched what I can of the game ?

Whats the news on the Torres and Alonso injuries ?

by **Simari** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:44 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:
parchpea wrote:I want a Liverpool that plays with panache and a team full of expression but under this regime it will never happen unfortunately.

I long for the day when I can truly enjoy watching Liverpool again and be satisfied and comfortable in knowing that we have tried to play in the right manner and be entertaining win, lose or draw.

Whats happended to us if anyone thinks the way things are going is acceptable for Liverpool FC.

You have to be realistic at times like this - we've been playing poorly, we've got players rushed back that could've used another week off, and we come up against the side that are playing the best football in the league.

These are the times to dig in and grind out results, and today I thought we did that. We weren't the better side, but we were far from embarrassed, and key players such as Gerrard, Mascherano and Carragher that haven't been setting the world alight with their form in recent weeks demonstrated that there is a very bright light at the end of the tunnel.

If we'd gone out today with all guns blazing we would have been absolutely mullered, and nobody would be on here proud of the team. Rafa set up a side today to take the sting out of a very, very dangerous Arsenal side, and after 80 minutes we had 3 points. I think that speaks for itself. The balance of play reflects the respective form of the two sides for me, and to keep them out for 80 mins after the high they've been on since their 7-0 on Tuesday speaks volumes for our spirit today. If you can't applaud that, then you haven't been watching the two sides recently.

Ivor, it's not about patience and being off-form.

It is about something very simple - how many times did we just hoof the ball upfield hoping someone would get on it?

This style of play WITH Torres in the side? How do you expect to use his pace. skill and intelligence?

I've said this before and will repeat it - Some of our players are not doing their job off-field during training, trying to understand the strengths/weaknesses of their team-mates.

Kuyt and Riise were major culprits today. I don't care about this *not being played in position* :censored:

. You need to have basic intelligence as a footballer to use your skills even when not in your favourite position.

But even more so that this, I am beginning to doubt that Rafa has learnt anything from the past 2 years about the premiership. We were very, very, very lucky today.

We could still be unbeaten at the end of the season - 18 wins and 18 draws. How's that for headlines -

"Unbeaten liverpool finish 4th in the league".

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:47 pm

bigmick wrote:Well I thought it was a much more encouraging performance from the lads to be honest. Masherano can't have played better in a Liverpool shirt and Gerrard looks like he is getting it back so there was encouragment there, and the battling qualities we displayed throughout the ninety minutes were heartening to see.

Given the fact we've picked up a couple more injuries though, and I have to say given the fact that there was a quite obvious gap between the two teams, I think it may be time for people to calm down a bit in terms of what we are expecting to do this season. We aren't in all probablility going to win the League based on where we currently are, and it may now be time to take stock of where we need to go.

Clearly there are a couple of imbalances in the squad which need to be addressed, and equally clearly there are a couple of players who are probably not going to be there with us should we make the next step. I hope though that people don't get too carried away in their "bigging up" of Arsenal to our detriment. They are an excellent team, but it is my strong belief that Man Utd will beat them next weekend before opening up a gap which will se them win the League fairly comfortably.

Like I said, our chance to win the league in my opinion is becoming smaller this season, but if we can learn fron the undoubted and well documented mistakes we have made, we can come back with this core of players and our manager and win trophies, I'm certain of that.

First lesson: Crouch must play. He looked sharp and he created chances for himself and for teammates. And, the ball stuck up top more when he came on.

On the flip-side, Kuyt and Voronin aren't up to it. Voronin can sometimes be effective as an in-the-box poacher but he needs to play off either Crouch or Torres for that. Kuyt is full of running but carries no goal threat whatsoever.

So, Crouch and Torres should be our partnership for the foreseeable, with Crouch and Voronin the back-up pairing if Torres's knock is more severe. Kuyt needs to be sat down. Rafa, I fear, won't see it that way, though.

by **destro** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:48 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
destro wrote:I didn't get to see the match because I was Paintballing, my first thought was a draw Against a team that have been blowing other teams apart was not the wost result, however after reading a few of theses posts it would seem that once again we didn't perform ?

Is this a fair assessment, I'm going to watch MOTD2 and see for myself with no doubt very limited highlights

Are you on a wind up or what ?

Can you be more specific ? A wind up about what

I went Paintballing
I don't think a draw is the worst result
It sounding like we didn't perform
I am watching MOTD2 later OR the fact they show limited highlights

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:49 pm

Simari wrote:It is about something very simple - how many times did we just hoof the ball upfield hoping someone would get on it?

This style of play WITH Torres in the side? How do you expect to use his pace. skill and intelligence?

Did you watch the match on the teletext ?

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