Liverpool FC Forum

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:49 pm

s@int wrote:Peter Hill-Wood, Arsenal chairman, "Arsène's basically spent, since he's been with us, £4m to £5m a year net.

And another.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:52 pm

s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:If you take net spending into account, then divide it by each season, Wenger has outspent Rafa.

That's the only stat you can possibly use.

All I did was supply Facts to show this quote by Lando was incorrect.

I didn't want to "prove" Wenger was a great manager. I would have been delighted if the facts had proved Lando correct.

FFS GET A GRIP!

I have already said that I was wrong - shall we drag this out until next year, or what?

But - if you actually divide their outlay by the amount of players they've signed, the gap is nothing like as wide.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:53 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:Peter Hill-Wood, Arsenal chairman, "Arsène's basically spent, since he's been with us, £4m to £5m a year net.

And another.

Another what? Fact

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:00 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:If you take net spending into account, then divide it by each season, Wenger has outspent Rafa.

That's the only stat you can possibly use.

All I did was supply Facts to show this quote by Lando was incorrect.

I didn't want to "prove" Wenger was a great manager. I would have been delighted if the facts had proved Lando correct.

FFS GET A GRIP!

I have already said that I was wrong - shall we drag this out until next year, or what?

But - if you actually divide their outlay by the amount of players they've signed, the gap is nothing like as wide.

We all get things wrong mate, I couldn't care less about that.

I just don't like people inferring I am saying Wenger is "better" than Rafa. I am happy with Rafa I have no-where said "get shut" or "he's on the clock" or anything like that.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about. We have got problems, the proverbial blind man could see that. Sacking Rafa is not the way to solve those problems, at least not part way through the season with EVERYTHING STILL TO PLAY FOR. Come the end of the season is the time to take stock, see what, if any progress we have made and decided if Rafa has taken us as far as he can, or if he's still doing a great job.

The team is playing cr@p, we can all see that and I am sure most feel just as frustrated, angry and upset as I am. Its Rafa's job to sort out the mess, if he can't then maybe at the END OF THE SEASON we may have to think again.

Bollox to the "in Rafa we trust", I believe in whats best for Liverpool fc, and I believe Rafa will prove that he's whats best for us.

What I said about Rafa in the "Where we are" thread (hidden amongst all the argueing)

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:09 pm

NANNY RED wrote:I Bet he was your daddy in 2005

Istanbul was a special night, but it’s in the past now, so move on and focus on the present. That’s the problem with a section of the fan base, they’re stuck in May 2005 and fail to realise that it’s October 2007.

Lando, one person has said that Wenger has been successful on a shoe string budget, hardly in abundance and S@int’s post referred to a comment passed by Arsenal’s Peter Hill-Wood, so that doesn’t count IMO.

I can’t be bothered to sit here and discuss this issue, IMO both managers are class acts, top managers who are both successful in their own rights and are two of Europe and the EPL’s finest.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:31 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:I Bet he was your daddy in 2005

Istanbul was a special night, but it’s in the past now, so move on and focus on the present. That’s the problem with a section of the fan base, they’re stuck in May 2005 and fail to realise that it’s October 2007.

Lando, one person has said that Wenger has been successful on a shoe string budget, hardly in abundance and S@int’s post referred to a comment passed by Arsenal’s Peter Hill-Wood, so that doesn’t count IMO.

I can’t be bothered to sit here and discuss this issue, IMO both managers are class acts, top managers who are both successful in their own rights and are two of Europe and the EPL’s finest.

What do you mean problem with section of the fan base still living in 2005. Dont even get me started on fan base mate.

Some of us on hear remember what it was like in the past at Anfield not just in 2005 when lots of :censored:

closet supporters decided to come out and support us. Id take Rafa over wenger any day mate he will win the league if not this season the next id put my :censored:

morgage on it . and he has accomplished more in 3 years than what i could have possibly hoped for

How many years has wenger been trying to win the champions league ?

Exaccly

by **europian-kings** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:00 pm

cant wait for this game!
please lads put in a good performance! ive had enough of my chelsea and arsenal mates (im from london) takin the :censored:

outa us in league each year.

just bin speakin to a chelsea mate of myn on msn. his words that have :censored:

me right off...

Tom says:
final lg standings
Tom says:
1.man utd
Tom says:
2.arsenal
Tom says:
3.chelsea
Tom says:
4.lpool
Tom says:
Thats gona b the final standings.
Dan says: pfft yeah alright mate keep tellin urself that

Tom says:
Arsenal might win the league
Tom says:
United might win the league
Tom says:
We might win the league
Tom says:
But you wont! Trust me!
Dan says:
How can you say that though? i know weve been scrappy this season and had a few decisions going for us (like everton and villa) but come on, if i said to you, your gona come 4th this year you have no chance, when you stil havent lost a game you would be like no way watever!
Tom says:
All you liverpool fans are the same, you allways say its your year every year but it never is and never will be!

Tom says:
everton, u were luky, spurs, u were luky, villa, u were luky, pompy u were luky they missed a pen.
Dan says:
Scorin a goal in last min isn't luky, SAVING a pen isnt luky, it dint exactly hit reinas head he ment to save it!, and coming from a chelsea fan, what about your 'luky' pen?
Tom says:
That was a pen admit it! u no it was i no it was end of!
Dan says:
.............. (basically guys u dnt wana no wat i sed =] )

the thing that anoyed me most was he added his mate (a die hard chelsea fan) and sed, aint we gona finish above liverpool matt.
matt sed liverpool hu? never heard of em....

by **EddieC** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:07 pm

So basically Tom thinks the league is gonna finish Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool but Arsenal or Chelsea might have a chance of winning it. He thinks Liverpool have scraped past some poor teams& the penalty for Chelsea against us was fair.

Makes things much simpler doesn't it?

Mods, change his username to Vicky Pollard please

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:10 pm

europian-kings wrote:cant wait for this game!
please lads put in a good performance! ive had enough of my chelsea and arsenal mates (im from london) takin the outa us in league each year.

just bin speakin to a chelsea mate of myn on msn. his words that have me right off...

Tom says:
final lg standings
Tom says:
1.man utd
Tom says:
2.arsenal
Tom says:
3.chelsea
Tom says:
4.lpool
Tom says:
Thats gona b the final standings.
Dan says: pfft yeah alright mate keep tellin urself that

Tom says:
Arsenal might win the league
Tom says:
United might win the league
Tom says:
We might win the league
Tom says:
But you wont! Trust me!
Dan says:
How can you say that though? i know weve been scrappy this season and had a few decisions going for us (like everton and villa) but come on, if i said to you, your gona come 4th this year you have no chance, when you stil havent lost a game you would be like no way watever!
Tom says:
All you liverpool fans are the same, you allways say its your year every year but it never is and never will be!

Tom says:
everton, u were luky, spurs, u were luky, villa, u were luky, pompy u were luky they missed a pen.
Dan says:
Scorin a goal in last min isn't luky, SAVING a pen isnt luky, it dint exactly hit reinas head he ment to save it!, and coming from a chelsea fan, what about your 'luky' pen?
Tom says:
That was a pen admit it! u no it was i no it was end of!
Dan says:
.............. (basically guys u dnt wana no wat i sed =] )

the thing that anoyed me most was he added his mate (a die hard chelsea fan) and sed, aint we gona finish above liverpool matt.
matt sed liverpool hu? never heard of em....

LOL IM in bulk here

Who the :censored:

Tom

by **destro** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:39 pm

Brilliant stuff

I think we should make Tom a mod !

This could take off like the whole "Pineapple debate" and the "Will we beat Blackpool" saga

by **europian-kings** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:44 pm

lol. i had to show all the info it doesnt have the same effect

im

off with him though, i cant deffend myself in london, chelsea and arsenal fans everywhere. the only mates that help me out ae the spurs lads :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:48 pm

Sabre wrote:The figures are right, but to use Arsenal comparison to stablish the point that Rafa is a money waster is the most convenient case of the top club comparisons to do so.

Lando does have a point when he says that Rafa hasn't lost key elements of the squad, should he had lost Alonso or Gerrard when a big club knocked the door like in Henry's case, or Fabregas next season (Fabregas admitted that Wenger begged him to stay this season), then his balance would have been different.

**But** It cannot be said neither that Rafa has been exactly austere or hasn't made doubtful signings. I don't have a complaint about what he has spent in important players of the squad like Alonso, Reina, Kuyt (I include him as a decent signing) or Agger, as those have been used a lot. My criticism to Rafa is the amount of expensive patches he has used to cover the positions in which he didn't get the required man. People like Josemi have been expensive for what they've done. A lot of money has gone in those uneffective patches.

Anyhow, it cannot be said he's had the spending power of the likes of Mourinho, who in one season almost spent what we spend in 4 years (didn't look the real figures, just in case, trusting my memory).

Just to stir the sh!t even more :-

Mourinho same years as Rafa

season bought(M) sold(M) net(M)

2007/8 14 4 10
2006/7 7 16 -9
2005/6 91 21 70
2004/5 57 13 44

Mourinho
net total 115/4 = 29 million average spend

Rafa
net total £86/4 = £21Million average spend

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:33 pm

Well after lots of tooing and frowing over stats, (and well done to St for defending his corner, he was right all along and didn't let himself get pushed off the ball) we can conclude that Wenger is a good manager.

I must equally say fair play to Lando for sticking to his guns, and also for admitting his initial asserion was in fact incorrect. I must say, I would have thought it was correct on first read and found the subsequent stats surprising but there you go.

One factor I think that would probably distort the final assessment is the time which Wenger has been in the job, and the undoubtedly huge inflation which has taken place in football transfers over the last four years. It would be hard for instance to imagine picking up Vierra (even given the fact that he was relatively unproven) for 2.5 mill these days, similarly Henri for 11 mill or Pires for 7 mill. I would have thought if you were to go and look at Ribery for instance, a similarly established French International to the last two, then you would have to go much higher than that today.

I'm not sure that Mourinhio is a fair comparison either (although once again fair play to St for his agent provocateur stance). In Mourinho's case, with the notable exception of Drogba and Essien (who were both excellent purchases), most of the better signings had already been made by the often forgotten Ranieri (Lampard, Cech, Cole etc etc) and the special one did waste a lot of cash.

Rafa has bought very well in my opinion. My one criticism visa-vis his transfer policy would be the lack of balance our squad has in certain areas. I was by no means alone in sounding the alarm bells once it became clear he wasn't going to sign a centre half after the collapse of the Heinz deal for instance. I may be stuck in the nineties but it's an absolute given that you start the campaign with four (or at least it always has been in my lifetime anyway) centre-halves and we are paying the price now. Similarly up top, if Rafa isn't going to play Crouch then we look very samey when Torres doesn't play.

Despite the fact that Lucas looks to me to be a very talented player and quite possibly a long-term snip at 8 million, it would be a fair question to ask also what we could have done with the combined total of his fee and that of the enigmatic Babel. If we really did spend all our cash at that moment, the 19 million squid we laid out there on future possibilities (and like I said, in the case of Lucas in particular there are definately possibilities there) may possibly have been better spent strengthening the first team. That's my only gripe.

I notice that nobody so far has included Man Utd. I must assume from that that they have spent sh!tloads.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:43 pm

Now the big Arsene love in is finished can we get back to talking about the match we have on tomorrow ?

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:49 pm

bigmick wrote:I notice that nobody so far has included Man Utd. I must assume from that that they have spent sh!tloads.

Your wish is my command

Mancs

season bought(M) sold(M) net(M)

2007/8 0 12 -12
2006/7 36 15 21
2005/6 18 7 11
2004/5 20 4 16

£36/4 = £12million average spend

I am certainly not doing all Fergies years

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