Liverpool FC Forum

by **EddieC** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:31 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:People can argue all they like, but the sheer fact is that the Champions' League is the barometer of all teams, and it's a sight better to win that than the league.

To me that depends on which team it is & what trophies they've won recently. For example we've won the CL recently but haven't won the league for 17 years, so the league is definitely our priority.

I have to agree though that if we hadn't won both for the same length of time I would rather have the CL.

by **heimdall** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:31 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:So basically you have agreed ALL MY FIGURES added an extra year on which includes players signed before Wenger arrived at Arsenal. Then changed all the rules . Nice one

I will use your figures

Wenger net spend 37,176,000/12 = £3million net spend per year

Rafa net spend 86,420,000/4 = £21million net spend per year

Not even close mate.

Fine - kiss his a*se all you wish.

Same as I say - there's a difference of £1.3m per player between the 2 managers - not a lot considering Rafa hasn't begun selling his best players.

But you keep licking that frog's chocolate starfish.

I have no-where kissed Wengers mate, all I did was defend my figures. I haven't said how wonderful he is, what a great manager he is ,all I have said is this is how much he spent per year.

I hope in 5 years time Rafa will see the results of some of his clever investments in the youth market and we can start to sell on a few players, but more importantly I just want the title.

Yes, he recouped a lot of money, but he's won naff all in terms of league titles since Rafa arrived.

But Rafa has the big one. People can argue all they like, but the sheer fact is that the Champions' League is the barometer of all teams, and it's a sight better to win that than the league.

Well if the champions league is the baromoter Lando then Arsenal, Chelsea , Manure and even Celtic are streets ahead of us at the moment then!! :sniffle

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:32 pm

heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Wilhelmsson wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Here's a good question - if, by the grace of God, we beat Arsenal tomorrow - will you all start licking Rafa's bum?

No - I didn't think so...

I feel most members will let you carry on seeing as you’re doing a fine job. There is nothing wrong with giving respect where respect is due, Wenger has earned respect and I like him, I don’t see how calling him a fantastic manager is in any way, shape or form behind kissing as you bluntly put it.

I was simply deflating the silly opinion that Wenger has achieved what he has with no money at his disposal.

That's all.

Since when has it been wrong to defend OUR manager?

BTW - here's an interesting little titbit of info for you:

Since Abramovich dumped Ranieri, Arsenal have won precisely f*ck all league titles. The same as Rafa, but with a considerably longer reign.

Rafa wins the Champions' League in his first season. Then he thinks "Ah, f*ck it" and adds the FA Cup the next season, finishing above Arsenal in the league. Last year, we have a "terrible" season, yet still end above the Gooners and reach the Champions' League final, where we bitch-slap the opposition, only to lose to a deflected goal. Add to this the Community Shield and Euro Super Cup, and...

Who's the Daddy again?

Bloody hell you must have been watching a different champions league final to me if you think we bitch slapped AC Milan in the final. We shaded it and if Rafa had brought on Crouch we might even have won it, but the way I see it we nicked it form them in 2005 and they did the same to us in 2007 so fair enough.

BTW You have every right in the world to defend Rafa and the reverse has also to be true, but please stop being racist, biggoted and so fecking patronising to, and about, everyone. You actually make good points but you are so bloody aggressive that your points get lost in all the bile that spills out of your posts.

People should listen the first time around then.

I am sick and f*cking tired of listening to people lick the balls of our opposing mangers, then turn round and beat Rafa with a literary stick for nothing.

And as far as I am concerned, the French are not civilised people. They p*ss in the street.

Just like vermin.

by **EddieC** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:33 pm

heimdall wrote:please stop being racist, biggoted and so fecking patronising to, and about, everyone.

So basically you're asking Lando to stop being Lando

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:33 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:I was simply deflating the silly opinion that Wenger has achieved what he has with no money at his disposal.

That's all.

Since when has it been wrong to defend OUR manager?

BTW - here's an interesting little titbit of info for you:

Since Abramovich dumped Ranieri, Arsenal have won precisely f*ck all league titles. The same as Rafa, but with a considerably longer reign.

Rafa wins the Champions' League in his first season. Then he thinks "Ah, f*ck it" and adds the FA Cup the next season, finishing above Arsenal in the league. Last year, we have a "terrible" season, yet still end above the Gooners and reach the Champions' League final, where we bitch-slap the opposition, only to lose to a deflected goal. Add to this the Community Shield and Euro Super Cup, and...

Who's the Daddy again?

Where has this notion that Wenger has accomplished heights on a shoe string budget come from in this discussion? Please if you could refer me to a post in this discussion which has stated what you are trying to deflate?

It’s not wrong to defend the manager, where have I said this? It’s also not wrong to offer praise and respect to a man who has accomplished so much in his time with Arsenal. The football they have played under him alone deserves respect.

All of what you have said is true, but to me Benitez is not the daddy until he aids this club to serious title contention or the capture of it.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:33 pm

heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:So basically you have agreed ALL MY FIGURES added an extra year on which includes players signed before Wenger arrived at Arsenal. Then changed all the rules . Nice one

I will use your figures

Wenger net spend 37,176,000/12 = £3million net spend per year

Rafa net spend 86,420,000/4 = £21million net spend per year

Not even close mate.

Fine - kiss his a*se all you wish.

Same as I say - there's a difference of £1.3m per player between the 2 managers - not a lot considering Rafa hasn't begun selling his best players.

But you keep licking that frog's chocolate starfish.

I have no-where kissed Wengers mate, all I did was defend my figures. I haven't said how wonderful he is, what a great manager he is ,all I have said is this is how much he spent per year.

I hope in 5 years time Rafa will see the results of some of his clever investments in the youth market and we can start to sell on a few players, but more importantly I just want the title.

Yes, he recouped a lot of money, but he's won naff all in terms of league titles since Rafa arrived.

But Rafa has the big one. People can argue all they like, but the sheer fact is that the Champions' League is the barometer of all teams, and it's a sight better to win that than the league.

Well if the champions league is the baromoter Lando then Arsenal, Chelsea , Manure and even Celtic are streets ahead of us at the moment then!!

We're not out of it just yet.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:34 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Anybody got any news on the fitness of our recently missing players ? Assuming they're all fit I'm expecting Rafa to make wholesale changes (again). Could we see

. Reina
. Finnan Carragher Agger Arbeloa

. Benayoun Gerrard Alonso Riise

. Crouch Torres

Looks like Alonso is in from reading this

Xabi Alonso set for balancing act
Oct 27 2007 by Ian Doyle, Liverpool Daily Post

Xabi Alonso (100)

OF all the theories put forward to explain Liverpool’s alarming loss of form during the past six weeks, there is one that stands out above all the others.

While Rafael Benitez’s side have lumbered from Champions League defeat to Premier League underachievement, a frustrated Xabi Alonso has been left kicking his heels in the stands.

The statistics alone illustrate the impact of the Spaniard’s absence. Since the midfielder fell victim to the curse of the metatarsal at Portsmouth in early September, Liverpool have won just three of eight games, slipping to fourth in the league and to the brink of embarrassment in Europe.

Now, after returning to the squad as an unused substitute in Istanbul against Besiktas in midweek, Alonso is primed to once again take his place at the heart of Benitez’s midfield as Liverpool entertain leaders Arsenal in tomorrow’s titanic contest.

And Benitez believes the return of Alonso will prove influential and bring an extra dynamic to the team’s forward play that has been missing in recent weeks.

“It’s clear that with Xabi, Daniel Agger or Fabio Aurelio, players with quality in possession, you can improve your attack,” he says. “The question is to find the balance. Xabi is a top class player. If he plays well, then the team plays well.

“In midfield we have Gerrard now playing better the other day, and if you have Gerrard, Mascherano or Xabi playing well then you know the team will play better.

“Xabi can play with pace. He has pace with the ball. It’s important that we have someone who can switch the play before the opposing defenders are organised, he can pass the ball 40 yards so the defenders don’t have time. Sometimes you need a player like Xabi.”

Should he make tomorrow’s starting line-up, Alonso will come up against compatriot Cesc Fabregas, the Arsenal midfielder whose scintillating form has propelled the Gunners to the top of the Premier League and a run of 12 successive victories.

While an undeniably impressive sequence, it must be pointed out that nine of those games have been played at their Emirates home with Arsenal yet to negotiate any significant hurdles this season.

Although Arsene Wenger’s side won at Anfield in both the FA and League Cups last season, Liverpool have scored three straight home league wins over the Gunners under Benitez’s tutelage.

The only remaining unbeaten top-flight records will go on the line tomorrow, and Benitez is confident his side are primed to make amends for their Turkish torment on Wednesday by ending

“Arsenal are in a very good moment right now, they are playing well, scoring goals and have confidence,” he says. “But at Anfield, against a top team, the motivation for our players will be easy. We will look to control them when they have the ball and beat them when we have the ball.

“It could be a test for Arsenal to play against a top team, and for us a test to play against the team that is at the top of the table.

“It’s a bit like the derby against Everton. Everybody was saying we weren’t playing well, but in a derby anything can happen, and it’s the same in a game against a top side as Arsenal at Anfield; anything can happen.

“It’s a long race and you will have a lot of difficult games. We have had difficult games recently and maybe Arsenal have had easier ones, especially as they scored early on in midweek.”

Despite Liverpool’s disappointing recent form, they are still enjoying their best start to a Premier League campaign since Benitez arrived at the club in June 2004.

And with the injury list starting to clear, the Spaniard is confident of success tomorrow.

“Last season, we were something like 12 points behind the leaders at this stage, there were two teams at the top with more or less the same number of points,” says Benitez. “But now, with just Arsenal ahead, there is just one team and you know they will have problems and difficult games like all the other teams and will lose some points.

“I have confidence we will beat Arsenal and be three points behind. But if we cannot, it is a long, long race and we need to keep going.”

Liverpool’s recent profligacy was highlighted against Besiktas, with only Steven Gerrard’s late header to show for 28 shots on goal.

Matters should improve with the return of Fernando Torres from injury tomorrow and, while happy with the overall performance of his strikers, Benitez acknowledges the need to be more ruthless.

“We should be scoring more goals, especially when you have 28 attempts like we did on Wednesday,” says the manager. “Our problem now is that before, we were so good in defence we could create chances and chances and we’d finally score and get a result.

“But now we are making some mistakes in defence and you can see the results. We have to give the strikers the confidence in the defenders, it’s a vicious circle.”

However, Benitez believes there have been signs of an improvement in Liverpool’s last three games, even though the only victory of that spell came in the controversial Goodison derby last Saturday.

“We are not playing at our level but we are improving now,” he says. “The last few games we have been improving. We showed character at the end of the game against Tottenham, we played really well in the first 20-25 minutes against Everton and we showed character again later on, and the other day against Besiktas we had plenty of possession and created chances. But I agree that we need to score more.”

by **heimdall** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:34 pm

EddieC wrote:
heimdall wrote:please stop being racist, biggoted and so fecking patronising to, and about, everyone.

So basically you're asking Lando to stop being Lando

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:36 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I was simply deflating the silly opinion that Wenger has achieved what he has with no money at his disposal.

That's all.

Since when has it been wrong to defend OUR manager?

BTW - here's an interesting little titbit of info for you:

Since Abramovich dumped Ranieri, Arsenal have won precisely f*ck all league titles. The same as Rafa, but with a considerably longer reign.

Rafa wins the Champions' League in his first season. Then he thinks "Ah, f*ck it" and adds the FA Cup the next season, finishing above Arsenal in the league. Last year, we have a "terrible" season, yet still end above the Gooners and reach the Champions' League final, where we bitch-slap the opposition, only to lose to a deflected goal. Add to this the Community Shield and Euro Super Cup, and...

Who's the Daddy again?

Where has this notion that Wenger has accomplished heights on a shoe string budget come from in this discussion? Please if you could refer me to a post in this discussion which has stated what you are trying to deflate?

It’s not wrong to defend the manager, where have I said this? It’s also not wrong to offer praise and respect to a man who has accomplished so much in his time with Arsenal. The football they have played under him alone deserves respect.

All of what you have said is true, but to me Benitez is not the daddy until he aids this club to serious title contention or the capture of it.

Read the previous 13 pages and you'll find it in abundance.

And I don't think Wenger deserves the accolades he does until he wins the Champions' League.

I won't hold my breath...

by **heimdall** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:42 pm

Look I respect Wenger, Ferguson and even begrudgingly that asswipe arrogant pr1ck Moaniniho but at the same time they are opposition managers and the only management that I really give a sh1t about is Liverpool's and that is where I am still concerned but I've decided to be positive for the match tomorrow, I really really hope we can get a result, we need it so bad. I think we have a chance but hope to God that Rafa doesn't come up with some fecked up, over rotated team selection.

YNWA :buttrock

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:42 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Read the previous 13 pages and you'll find it in abundance.

And I don't think Wenger deserves the accolades he does until he wins the Champions' League.

I won't hold my breath...

I’ve not seen anyone openly say that Wenger has accomplished all that he has on a shoe string budget, I would have probably passed comment on such a post if I had read it in this discussion.

I could say the same about Benitez in regard to the league title. To me winning the league is a tougher task than winning the champions league. 38 games compared to the 14 or so matches aided by the lengthy preparation given to managers when plotting their assault in Europe.

I feel both are important, but this club proved that with a bit of fortune, a lot of determination and team spirit the champions league can be won, the same team finished fifth in the league.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:45 pm

Big Niall wrote:I cannot see us winning, Wenger has assembled a much better team at a fraction of the price.

There's one.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:46 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I was simply deflating the silly opinion that Wenger has achieved what he has with no money at his disposal.

That's all.

Since when has it been wrong to defend OUR manager?

BTW - here's an interesting little titbit of info for you:

Since Abramovich dumped Ranieri, Arsenal have won precisely f*ck all league titles. The same as Rafa, but with a considerably longer reign.

Rafa wins the Champions' League in his first season. Then he thinks "Ah, f*ck it" and adds the FA Cup the next season, finishing above Arsenal in the league. Last year, we have a "terrible" season, yet still end above the Gooners and reach the Champions' League final, where we bitch-slap the opposition, only to lose to a deflected goal. Add to this the Community Shield and Euro Super Cup, and...

Who's the Daddy again?

Where has this notion that Wenger has accomplished heights on a shoe string budget come from in this discussion? Please if you could refer me to a post in this discussion which has stated what you are trying to deflate?

It’s not wrong to defend the manager, where have I said this? It’s also not wrong to offer praise and respect to a man who has accomplished so much in his time with Arsenal. The football they have played under him alone deserves respect.

All of what you have said is true, but to me Benitez is not the daddy until he aids this club to serious title contention or the capture of it.

I Bet he was your daddy in 2005

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:47 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:If you take net spending into account, then divide it by each season, Wenger has outspent Rafa.

That's the only stat you can possibly use.

All I did was supply Facts to show this quote by Lando was incorrect.

I didn't want to "prove" Wenger was a great manager. I would have been delighted if the facts had proved Lando correct.

FFS GET A GRIP!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:47 pm

Big Niall wrote:Wenger has spent very little when you consider Anelka was sold for 22m, Overmars 25m, Viera 13m,Henry 16m, prob made small loss on Reyes - no other big buys spring to mind?

Wenger won the double in his first full season in 1998 and after 5 full seasons had won 2 leagues (2002) and after 7 full seasons had won 3 leagues).

We won't win the league this year (highly unlikely anyway) so unless you expect Rafa to win the league the next 3 seasons then Wenger has proved much better.

Nobody can deny Arsenal are a joy to watch too. Manu are also good to watch and have players (well giggs) with 9 league medals.

Playing good football can win trophies!

There's another.

Liverpool FC Forum

Liverpool v. Arsenal Match Thread (Oct. 28, 2007) - AKA The Kiss Wenger's @rse Thread

Who is online