Liverpool FC Forum

by **Wilhelmsson** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:34 pm

Big Niall wrote:If we don't seriously challenge for (not necessarily win) the league this year then he should go in the summer.

Who do you replace him with though? It’s easy to sack a manager, but it’s even harder to replace one, especially one as good as Rafa.

I won’t lie, I am not Rafa #1 fan, but I like the man, I think he is the right manager for the club, he just needs to insert pragmatism and continuity into his methods and I’m sure his/the club's fortunes would improve.

If the club was to sack Rafa, then hire someone else, the club is looking at another three years of rebuilding the foundations and can anyone seriously want that? Of course there’s the players, what happens if Mascherano, Reina, Alonso, Agger, Torres all decide to hand in transfer requests in protest of Rafa’s leave? It would mean replacing all these players who are key to the fortunes and future of the club.

People are correct when they use the old cliché of no player is more important than the club, but replacing key players takes time, effort and money and deflects away from the task in hand, which is to improve the aspects which need improvement, instead of replacing what is already around.

Then there is replacing the key personnel who are in the process of building a fantastic youth set up, it would all go to waste with someone new.

I’m not in favour of hiring a new manager at this stage and I will make a final judgement at the end of the season, as always, but I don’t believe sacking Europe’s finest manager will benefit the club in the slightest.

by **Dundalk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:40 pm

A no for me!!

What he has achieved already and with the players he has out he deserves a little more credit than what he is getting.

Like the man himself would say ,judge him at the end of the season!

by **heimdall** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:46 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
Big Niall wrote:If we don't seriously challenge for (not necessarily win) the league this year then he should go in the summer.

Who do you replace him with though? It’s easy to sack a manager, but it’s even harder to replace one, especially one as good as Rafa.

I won’t lie, I am not Rafa #1 fan, but I like the man, I think he is the right manager for the club, he just needs to insert pragmatism and continuity into his methods and I’m sure his/the club's fortunes would improve.

If the club was to sack Rafa, then hire someone else, the club is looking at another three years of rebuilding the foundations and can anyone seriously want that? Of course there’s the players, what happens if Mascherano, Reina, Alonso, Agger, Torres all decide to hand in transfer requests in protest of Rafa’s leave? It would mean replacing all these players who are key to the fortunes and future of the club.

People are correct when they use the old cliché of no player is more important than the club, but replacing key players takes time, effort and money and deflects away from the task in hand, which is to improve the aspects which need improvement, instead of replacing what is already around.

Then there is replacing the key personnel who are in the process of building a fantastic youth set up, it would all go to waste with someone new.

I’m not in favour of hiring a new manager at this stage and I will make a final judgement at the end of the season, as always, but I don’t believe sacking Europe’s finest manager will benefit the club in the slightest.

"Europe’s finest manager"

WTF are you basing that on?

? There are so many better managers in Europe that its scary and the vast majority of them would not state that they were happy with the performance yesterday or waited until the 80th minute before introducing Crouch.

Rafa is an incompetent bumbling fool and the sooner he leaves the better, it wouldn't take 3 years to rebuild, that is cr8p.
Tell me please how long did it take Mouriniho at Chelsea, first year mate, now as much as I hate the arrogant git you have to hand him that he knew how to win the league.

As many other posters have said our team/squad is fantastic and if it isn't then guess what that is Rafa's fault. He's had 3 years and a :censored:

load of money to form a good team, so if he hasn't then he's not quite the genius is he.

I'll applaud him for maintaing the status quo after Houllier but in terms of league we are not much better than before and that isn't good enough!

Why do you all still have so much faith in him, I would say that anyone with even half a brain must see that there is a big problem at the moment and that problem is sporting a rather sh1t goatie beard!!

by **Wilhelmsson** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:02 pm

heimdall wrote:"Europe’s finest manager"

WTF are you basing that on? ? There are so many better managers in Europe that its scary and the vast majority of them would not state that they were happy with the performance yesterday or waited until the 80th minute before introducing Crouch.

Rafa is an incompetent bumbling fool and the sooner he leaves the better, it wouldn't take 3 years to rebuild, that is cr8p.
Tell me please how long did it take Mouriniho at Chelsea, first year mate, now as much as I hate the arrogant git you have to hand him that he knew how to win the league.

As many other posters have said our team/squad is fantastic and if it isn't then guess what that is Rafa's fault. He's had 3 years and a load of money to form a good team, so if he hasn't then he's not quite the genius is he.

I'll applaud him for maintaing the status quo after Houllier but in terms of league we are not much better than before and that isn't good enough!

Why do you all still have so much faith in him, I would say that anyone with even half a brain must see that there is a big problem at the moment and that problem is sporting a rather sh1t goatie beard!!

He’s Europe’s finest based on what he has achieved in his career and what he will continue to achieve at this club. What other managers in Europe are more advanced than Benitez? I can’t honestly think of one.

If Rafa is incompetent, then I dread to think what a manager has to achieve in order to be considered competent in your view. It would take a few seasons for a new manager to sign the players he would want, to implement himself in everyway at the club and replace the foundations laid by Rafa.

Mourinho was fortunate that Ranieri built a decent outfit at Chelsea and Mourinho was fortunate he could spend £30m per player of his choice. Roman’s transfer kitty is bottomless to say the very least, at Liverpool it would be different, those Americans will want $ in return for trophies. Liverpool couldn’t contrast Chelsea anymore in this particular department.

If the club fails to challenge for the league throughout the season then that responsibility does indeed fall to Rafa, but not him alone, the players are also accountable as they are the men taking home £60k, £70k, £100k a week. Getting results is ultimately down to them is it not?

Rafa has made important strides forward in terms of the league, the strides haven’t been as large as I would have liked, but they have been made and continue to be made.

I have faith in Benitez, because he’ll get things right eventually, if the club was to constantly chop and change manager, the club would be in Newcastle’s position. As I say I am not Rafa’s #1 supporter, I have criticised him and continue to do so, but I can also see what good he has bought to the club and it’s important he is kept in charge, because he can win the club #19, #20, #21. Even if it doesn’t seem likely at this moment in time.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:20 pm

heimdall wrote:
Wilhelmsson wrote:
Big Niall wrote:If we don't seriously challenge for (not necessarily win) the league this year then he should go in the summer.

Who do you replace him with though? It’s easy to sack a manager, but it’s even harder to replace one, especially one as good as Rafa.

I won’t lie, I am not Rafa #1 fan, but I like the man, I think he is the right manager for the club, he just needs to insert pragmatism and continuity into his methods and I’m sure his/the club's fortunes would improve.

If the club was to sack Rafa, then hire someone else, the club is looking at another three years of rebuilding the foundations and can anyone seriously want that? Of course there’s the players, what happens if Mascherano, Reina, Alonso, Agger, Torres all decide to hand in transfer requests in protest of Rafa’s leave? It would mean replacing all these players who are key to the fortunes and future of the club.

People are correct when they use the old cliché of no player is more important than the club, but replacing key players takes time, effort and money and deflects away from the task in hand, which is to improve the aspects which need improvement, instead of replacing what is already around.

Then there is replacing the key personnel who are in the process of building a fantastic youth set up, it would all go to waste with someone new.

I’m not in favour of hiring a new manager at this stage and I will make a final judgement at the end of the season, as always, but I don’t believe sacking Europe’s finest manager will benefit the club in the slightest.

"Europe’s finest manager"

WTF are you basing that on? ? There are so many better managers in Europe that its scary and the vast majority of them would not state that they were happy with the performance yesterday or waited until the 80th minute before introducing Crouch.

Rafa is an incompetent bumbling fool and the sooner he leaves the better, it wouldn't take 3 years to rebuild, that is cr8p.
Tell me please how long did it take Mouriniho at Chelsea, first year mate, now as much as I hate the arrogant git you have to hand him that he knew how to win the league.

As many other posters have said our team/squad is fantastic and if it isn't then guess what that is Rafa's fault. He's had 3 years and a load of money to form a good team, so if he hasn't then he's not quite the genius is he.

I'll applaud him for maintaing the status quo after Houllier but in terms of league we are not much better than before and that isn't good enough!

Why do you all still have so much faith in him, I would say that anyone with even half a brain must see that there is a big problem at the moment and that problem is sporting a rather sh1t goatie beard!!

What is the point in responding to this sh*t?

The sooner YOU leave, the better, you big nork.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:01 pm

Far too early for a poll like this, and somewhat ridiculous to want to have the best manager there has been at this club in some 17 years to be sacked because we've had a few bad results. Not only this, but who would replace him and do better? Yeah, that's what I thought too. I voted a big f*ck off NO!

by **THEBARON** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:10 pm

I don't think he should go - we are only in October - we have to judge him at the end of the season. Given the financial backing he was given I would expect the minimum expectation would be top 3 ( and within 6 points of the winners ) , champs league knockout stage and a good run in one of the domestic cups.
There are, however, several causes for cocern.
* We do seem to miss a strong number 2 - is it more than a coincidence that we appear to have struggled since paco left.
* We seem to be toothless in attack without Torres. Voronin and Kuyt work hard but do not offer enough at the moment. What does Crouch have to do to get a game?
* The tinkering - why not start with your strongest team , dictate the game and then bring your lesser lights on later.
* Man management problems - there appears to be a problem with Crouch if you read some papers. The decision to bring Gerrard off was interesting.

I feel that Rafa is the right man , but he needs a strong assistant to help and advise. He also needs the players to raise their game , too many players look out of sorts and ineffective at the moment.

by **Rockthekop** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:14 pm

Rafa won't be going anywhere, Hicks and Gilette have backed him and whether we like it or not he's here for this season at least. Personally it's way too early to be talking of sacking anyone, we have hung in there but we can't afford to keep playing like this otherwise we will be out of the title race before Christmas. Rafa needs to sign some real quality players not more average :censored:

. We have a good squad but it could be better. We need a CB, a winger and a striker. Kuyt, Voronin, Crouch, Hyppia, & Sissoko to go.

by **destro** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:22 pm

No ! He gets 26 years to do it, if he is going to be constantly compared to Managers at other clubs then the same bench marks must also apply to how long he is given. A league cup win saved the most successful manager the premiership has had, a Champions league win deserves at least the same.

by **THEBARON** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Yes - I agree with RTK
* We will be out of the title race if we continue like this. Home draws against Birmingham and Spurs could prove costly next May. Having said that if we beat Arsenal then we will only be 3 points behind them. That, however, is a big if.
* I agree about Kuyt , Voronin and Sissoko. The latter has been hopeless in the last couple of games and Voronin and Kuyt are solid players but not top drawer. If you disagree - ask yourself would they feature in a regular basis in the Chelsea , Arsenal and Utd teams?
Would be sorry to see Sami go - but time catches us all up.
Only quibble is Crouch - I don't believe he has been given enough playing time to prove himself.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:38 pm

I voted no for now, because I think that the game against arsenal will really show us if Benitez has what it takes to manage this club. And if Benitez does leave than these are some of the people which I think can replace him Capello, Lippi and Cruyff.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:04 pm

Well no he shouldn't be sacked of course. I wouldn't even go down the route of saying if we got knocked out of the Cups and didn't get near winning the League that it is a certainty that he should walk.

The key for me is direction. If for instance we were to lose against Arsenal on Sunday, and maybe even lose a couple more before our big guns came back and we went on a sustained winning run it would warm the heart a bit. The crux is there has to be an acceptance that the the methodology being employed is not taking us forward and a rethink is needed.

To be perfectly honest, if Rafa came out here and now and said he intends to make 75 changes to the team in the first 15 games or whatever it is next season as well, then I would say get rid. Is there anybody left who thinks that was a good idea? Still?

That's the issue which needs to be nailed. Although its rafa's fourth season, it's realistically his first where he's been able to compete financially with the other big clubs. I'm patient and fully believe he is a very gifted football man. I think he deserves to be given a chance now that he has a bit of cash to splash.

We've proved in the past though that mass-rotation of the team doesn't work in all competitions. We're currently in the process of proving that mass rotation in all competitions except the League doesn't work either. We've currently got our star forward sitting on his erse with a muscle injury, despite the fact we voluntarily sat him on his erse for two league games three weeks ago so he wouldn't get muscle injuries, and so he would be "fresh" for the end of the season. Despite it being a squad game, where you can replace like with like and it have absolutely no effect on fluency whatsoever, we are playing sh!te and apparently when two or theee players come back (provided we pick them of course) all will be well again.

In a nutshell that's it for me. If we can move on from the utter nonsense of our selection policy, then I can go with sticking with Rafa until the undeniably fine squad he has assembled reaches its potential.

We began the silliness, the "resting" players after two games away at Sunderland and we got away with it. I said then I was worried and I was. Derby at Home compounded the problem. All the while we were chopping and changing, switching, rotating and resting. Soon as we played somebody half decent, we carried on changing the team and we came unstuck. I said at the time it was all about momentum and it was, we lost ours there and then. We then left Torres out against Birmingham in the League, played him in the League Cup and since then have lurched from difficulty to another.

If Rafa can demonstrate between now and the end of the season that he has seen the light a little (and I'm absolutely certain that he will TBPH) and that he has realised that the number of changes he has made to the team has been THE main contributory factor to our slip in form, then I say give him another season after this. It then follows of course that if we continued to make as many changes as we did at the start of the season, and continued to play as we currently are, then of course I think he chould go at the end of the season.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:06 pm

No, Rafa should not go.

The players just need a more positive attitude.

Plus, things will improve once Alonso and Aggar come back.

by **puroresu** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:18 pm

For now no however if we go out of the CL in the 1st round after 6 games and are 10+ behind the leaders serious questions will need to be asked. Sunday is a huge game. I dont think we can afford to lose. 9 points already is a lot of ground to makeup.

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:03 pm

Liverpool supporters who think Rafa should be sacked want :censored:

shootin. i like to know which brilliant manager were gonna replace him with :censored:

no one He is still one of the best there is around today.When were winning european cups and fa cups all the one who are calling for his head now are singing his praises. The man gives his instructions and once the players cross that white line its to them and at the moment were not doing it . Apart from putting a pair of :censored:

boots on what more can the man do . The only passion ive seen in recent wweks atthe matches has come from Rafa on the line.

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