Liverpool FC Forum

dawson99 wrote:lol if we win on sunday we are 3 off top spot

heimdall wrote:I think he is loosing the faith of the players, owners and majority of fans and in that case he needs to leave.

peewee wrote:well this answers why we are were we are, rafas comments:

Benitez said: "We needed to make a change, but the players were doing well. Dirk Kuyt and Andriy Voronin were creating chances, I was happy with the way they were playing.

"It was just bad luck that Crouch was waiting to come on when they scored their second.

josip84 wrote:

Bad Bob wrote:

josip84 wrote:

peewee wrote:"We had a disappointing loss because we got outplayed by the Turks.", Hicks said.
at least hicks has the balls to admit we were outplayed

LFC were outplayed by Besiktas exactly in the same way as they were outplayed by Marseille 3 weeks ago, and exactly in the same way as they were outplayed by Porto shortly before.
Evidence accumulates : LFC do not take CL seriously this season. LFC show constant offhandedness in the European Competition. LFC prove one-track-minded : the Premiership title, and nothing else.
IMHO, a terrible strategic mistake in terms of season's objectives.
But I know a lot of LFC fans disagree with me.

A couple of questions for you:

1) What "evidence" suggests to you that we're not taking the CL seriously this season?  Give us details.

2) Now, let's say you're right for a second about our offhandedness for the sake of argument.  Why are you so bothered by this?  I would think it might benefit Marseilles to have a distracted Liverpool in their group.  You should be happy to see us focus on the league, surely?

1. Answer to your first question :evidence is too strong a word. Sorry about that, "Presumption" would have been more appropriate. What may justify such a presumption? The fact that LFC have been defeated by the supposedly weakest two teams of the group.

I've seen Besiktas at Marseille : a reasonably good team, no more. LFC should normally have outplayed them easily. And, of course, I've seen all Marseille games since the beginning of the season. I can assure you that Marseille don't play well at all this season. A lot of individual and collective problems.An average LFC should have won the game by a large margin. Honestly.

The thing is : either the reasons for your defeats are arrogance and overconfidence (which I don't think is the case), or it's offhandedness.

2. Answer to your second question:
There's one thing you don't seem to realise : of course I support Marseille, but believe it or not, I care for LFC too. I have for more than 30 years! And I sincerely think it's a pity to see LFC in a very difficult position to qualify for CL's next phase.

Sabre wrote:

dawson99 wrote:well yeah, if we lose we are 9 points off and fighting for a uefa cup place. if ifs and buts were roses and mutts then.. dunno how the song goes, but i do know this, until suday im not listening to any of this bollox as it will all be null and void IF we win.

u gotta have faith, yeah, you gotaa have faitha faitha faith

(im just looking forward to lando coming on)

But, but, but... Dawson, that's a George Michael song 

Yeah....and your posts are boring me too....

Why don't you just stick to real socided... I am sure there are lots of fan forum for your spanish team.

Leave this forum to the LFC fans.....

s@int wrote:Traditionally stronger from the start of winter onwards, the foundations for a title challenge have been laid, even if the scaffolding is currently a bit wobbly.
 
But there's been a clear reversal of fortunes with the European form. While far from out, and while still capable of winning the necessary games, it's very much an uphill climb.
 
But I really don't understand any criticism of the manager over the European form, given it's an area where Benítez has excelled since his arrival at Anfield. He's a European master, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed in it every season. Particularly when deprived of three of his best five signings: the spine of Agger, Alonso and Torres.
 
It's been an undeniably poor Champions League campaign so far, but only five months ago the team went to Athens in optimistic mood. I know you can't live off the achievements of last season, but equally you can't say that current form is definitive of the quality of the team or the manager, and ignore the recent past.
 
Arsenal, this weekend's visitors at Anfield, are currently in supreme form, but that won't last unbroken until May. There will be injuries, and there will be disrupting factors, such as the African Nations Cup. And if they're still going well both major competitions in the New Year, something will inevitably have to give. It always does.
 
Even defeat at home to Arsenal on Sunday will not mean Liverpool's season is over, or anything remotely like it.
 
I loathe this kind of thinking about the game. It's the kind of thinking that suggests Liverpool were better off sneaking out of the back door of the Ataturk at half-time when 3-0 down to AC Milan. Success in sport often means overcoming the odds. It's about riding out difficult patches and finding strength to go again. It's what winners do.
 
Nothing is over in the league with three quarters of the season left, unless you're right down the bottom and in dire straits. Perhaps the reason I seem optimistic to some is simply because I don't feel the Reds are going to win every game and stroll through any given season, therefore I don't hit rock bottom every time things don't go our way. I expect a bumpy ride, but to arrive somewhere satisfying come May.
 
You'd think no other teams in the history of the game ever had slumps. I'm not denying that the team are playing below their capacity, but we have to get away from the finality that surrounds the thinking at such times. Man United were woeful at the start of the season. Now they can do no wrong. It happens.
 
I will continue my attempts to move football debate away from sensationalist "all or nothing" rhetoric. All valid criticism and concerns over form –– which are natural –– get lost in a sea of hysterical overstatement. Every defeat is a disaster, signalling the end of the world.
 
You just have to look at Arsenal, to see how big clubs with classy players and a quality manager can find things change dramatically from one season to the next, often unexpectedly so. Two seasons ago Arsenal made the Champions League final. The following season they flunked at the first knock-out stage, to a team Liverpool subsequently dispatched with consummate ease.
 
Are Liverpool now a bad side in Europe? Does Benítez no longer understand continental football? Of course not.
 
Just as, in 2005/06, Liverpool hadn't suddenly become a bad European side when losing to Benfica in both legs without scoring. (Coincidentally, Benfica were managed by Ronald Koeman, the same man who undid Arsenal last season, and on whom Rafa reaped revenge.)
 
Indeed, sandwiched between the less remarkable league seasons of 04/05 and 06/07, it was Liverpool's best league season in terms of points since 1988. I keep harking back to the stat, but to win 66 per cent of league games in a season is proof Benítez knows English football; only Bob Paisley won more league games in a season for the Reds (based on 38 games), and even he did it just once.
 
It shows what can be done. When Liverpool ended with 82 points, just 17 months ago, Arsenal were way back on 67.
 
Maybe it all seems a bit schizophrenic, but Alternate Season Syndrome can be quite common. Few top teams do consistently well in the same competition year after year. As soon as you do well in one competition, you become a more valued scalp. If you did less well in another competition the year before, the pressure is lifted a little.
 
And once you do well in one competition, everyone suddenly says you should be concentrating on another.
 
You only need to look at Benitez's past for evidence of Alternate Season Syndrome, starting with his first season at Valencia. The pattern reads: league title, league disappointment (5th), league title, league disappointment (5th), league "success" (Liverpool's highest domestic points tally for 18 years), league disappointment (3rd, but fairly off the pace). So far this season, the pattern is very much in place.
 
Confidence is a strange thing, as at times it can attach itself to one competition and not another, depending on how things are going. Teams in the relegation zone can go on a good cup run, and teams doing well in the league can balls it up in the cup.
 
I felt Liverpool had turned a corner in terms of overall confidence after beating Everton, and there were some signs of that against Besiktas; for the second game running there was a first half where the opposition's only shot on target was an unfortunate Sami Hyypia own goal.
 
Whereas in the league the Reds just refuse to be beaten, rescuing last-minute points, in Europe the belief isn't as strong this time around.
 
While we are digging out results of one kind or another in the league –– apparently the sign of a good team when not playing well –– the fact that Liverpool aren't at their best means the chain can break at its weakest point, and after the defeat at home to Marseilles, the weakest point this season seems to have become the Champions League.
 
The same thing happened in those two legs against Benfica –– it coincided with a dodgy spell for the club in the Premiership, but whereas a paucity of goals in the league didn't stop the Reds picking up a few key 1-0 wins here and there to keep towards the top of the table, in Europe it proved costly.
 
You can see a similar thing with both of this year's French opponents. Toulouse are actually doing much better than Marseilles in the French league, but the floor was well and truly wiped with Toulouse at Anfield in August. Marseilles' confidence, meanwhile, is totally in Europe.
 
Getting back to the Premiership, last year Arsenal looked a pretty unremarkable team. Now, with the addition of virtually no-one of any note, and the departure of a world-class striker, they suddenly look pretty remarkable. The very same thing can be said of Manchester United a year earlier, when they signed only one player and sold van Nistelrooy.
 
Arsenal's away form in the Premiership last season was poor. As was Liverpool's. This year, the two have the best away records in the division. So things can change –– sometimes frequently within a season, other times from campaign to campaign.
 
I'm actually more certain than ever things are moving in the right direction at Liverpool, in that the players Benítez added this summer are capable of taking the team to a new level, but it's not quite gelling at the moment. There are signs, flashes, and there have been games when it's come together perfectly, but there are a lot of quality additions in need of bedding in to form a cohesive unit.
 
In rotating, Benítez has actually been giving each of the new players a steady taste of the action. He could have stuck three or four of them into the team at once at the start of the season, and persisted with the same side, and maybe they would all be in top form now. Who knows?
 
But if they'd struggled in those initial games, as can easily happen with any new signings, Liverpool might not have even made the Champions League, while points could have been dropped earlier in the league that, as equally-big-spending Tottenham have found, makes clawing them back incredibly difficult. Then everyone would have been even more hysterical.
 
Man United added a few expensive players, but as champions they only really needed Tevez immediately. Arsenal added no major players, and you can see the continuity there. Benítez had no such luxury. He is still trying to unify his most significant summer's rebuilding work. The fact that he's had to introduce new players while losing key spine players to injury going back to the start of the season has made life more difficult.
 
One new boy, Ryan Babel, showed some real touches of class in Istanbul –– he uses his body brilliantly, and has amazing control and balance, not to mention a real turn of pace; I doubt John Barnes was much different, or indeed any better, at just 20. Babel's got a lot of developing still to do to bring his game together, to learn when to pass and when to go it alone, but his talent is clear to see.
 
Benayoun is such a clever player who can open teams up with his movement and vision. Voronin is a versatile attacker who has already managed four important goals. Lucas already looks a quality all-round midfield general at just 20. And of course, Torres is the kind of world-class striker who can make a difference for a long time to come. So the quality is there, it's just a question of bringing it together, and bringing out the confidence.
 
Believe me, I do not defend Benítez for the sake of it, or because it's expected of me. I defend him because I'd defend any Liverpool manager who I feel has what it takes. I'd like to think I'd have done the same for Shankly and Paisley during their difficult periods, particularly early in their tenures, and especially with Shankly during his seven trophy-free years from 1966 to 1973.
 
And if Benítez's Alternate Season Syndrome continues, then there should still be a lot of interest come May, and plenty more to write about.
Tomkins LFC.TV


Just for our happy clappy friends.


It seems we are not just rotating players now but seasons as well

Just when you feel all is lost ,tomkins comes back with a classic. Back on with the rose tints me thinks