Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:46 pm

Well if Torres doesn't play it'll be very interesting to see who the manager goes with up top. The dilemma he'll face just about sums up in a nutshell why I don't buy into the guru like esteem which some on here buy into.

We are probably going to go with two out of three of Crouch, Voronin and Kuyt. I think it's fair to say all three are devoid of any type of pace at this level. On an individual basis you would have to say that based on their respective records this season Voronin provides the greatest goal threat, while it would be fair to say that Kuyt will undoubtedly work the hardest out of the three if selected. Crouch is fairly obviously surplus to requirements in Rafa's eyes and looks pretty depressed about his whole situation, and having played less than 90 minutes in the season so far in the League you can kind of see where he's coming from.

Despite changing the team on a weekly basis, we have absolutely no notion whatsoever of a viable alternative to Torres plus A N Other. We have signed a bloke from Holland for ten mllion quid who is supposedly a front player, but have decided in our wisdom not to play him there. So what do we do?

Well it seems that Kuyt is in our "first choice" eleven, so you would certainly expect to see him start. Alongside him, I would have thought Voronin will keep Crouch in the doldrums by relegating him to the bench at best, although I expect the big man will at some stage come on and play for enough minutes to at least claim he has done 90 this season.

Any alternatives? Well we could of course go with Babel. Some on here would probably tell you that the fact he hasn't been used there much before is pretty much irrelavent, but my suspicion is that it certainly is a factor. Similarly some have suggested Benayoun off the front man which is not as daft as it sounds, or Gerrard which is probably more daft than it sounds.

Whichever way you look at it, neither the squad on paper nor on grass is best set up to cope without our best striker. Should Torres be injured for anything like an extended period, our failure to replace Bellamy with a player who similarly blessed with a turn of foot or to make Crouch feel just a little bit more part of what's going on may come back to haunt us.

Can I just make one request though. If by chance Babel plays on Saturday and bangs in a hat-trick, or Crouch starts and scores twice, spare us the "tactical genius" stuff afterwards. To be where we are currently as far as front players go after four years of tenure is not the result of any genius in my view.

by **roberto green** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:52 pm

bigmick wrote:Can I just make one request though. If by chance Babel plays on Saturday and bangs in a hat-trick, or Crouch starts and scores twice, spare us the "tactical genius" stuff afterwards. To be where we are currently as far as front players go after four years of tenure is not the result of any genius in my view.

Fair enough mate good point made :nod

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:14 pm

I think with the absence of Johnson, Everton will play their usual 4 -5 -1 against us, and as usual the game will be won or lost in midfield (barring nightmare mistakes). I would go for a similar formation at least for the first half ,with Babel taking Torres position if he's not fit . Hopefully Agger will be back for this one as well.

Reina

Finnan Carra Agger/Hyypia Arbeloa

Gerrard Alonso Sissoko Mascherano Riise

Babel/Torres

With such a strong midfield we can get a decent grip on the game before making our class tell in the second half. If Mascherano is not deemed fit after his travels, I would play Benayoun or Kuyt off our striker instead. If Kewell is fit give him 20 minutes at the end.

No doubt after the internationals half my team will be unavailable anyway

by **redhayesy** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:19 pm

Big Mick it saddens me to think crouch is surplus to requirements!
why is so? the guy hasn"t had a decent run in the side, & for
me he offers more of a goal threat than vornin, imho but
that"s what it"s about oppinions, i also think that if torres
is injured still for the derby game, it would be a big gamble
to play babel up front in such a massive game.
forget tactical genius, i agree -let"s just win the game
& get back to challenging top spot,that for me is the
priority at the moment,let those players who are picked
do the talking on the pitch (hopefully with crouch)
in the starting line up

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:24 pm

I think Crouch, like Cisse before him has burnt his boats mate, I can't understand any other reason why he has been treated like he has. Anyway with Owen supposedly available for £6million, I wouldnt lose too much sleep over it.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:57 pm

Actually, I'm not at all convinced that Rafa sees Crouch as surplus to requirements. Based on appearances to date it seems as though the big man is in the frame for the Champions League and cup matches first and foremost, with starts in the league being handed to others. As Rafa is a firm believer in rotation as a policy and as he is stubborn--two facts that people have not been shy about pointing out--why is it so hard to believe that he still rates Crouch but that he's got others in mind for most league matches?

In any event, I would not be surprised at all to see Crouch start on Saturday, presuming he doesn't play for England mid-week. After all, his only league start came after the last international break, when Rafa looked to rest Torres and Kuyt. Granted, Crouch was sat at Wembley that time rather than traveling to Russia but, if he doesn't play, I predict Rafa will risk the jet lag and play him, especially given the fact that both Torres and Kuyt have muscle tears.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:08 am

Bad Bob wrote:Actually, I'm not at all convinced that Rafa sees Crouch as surplus to requirements. Based on appearances to date it seems as though the big man is in the frame for the Champions League and cup matches first and foremost, with starts in the league being handed to others. As Rafa is a firm believer in rotation as a policy and as he is stubborn--two facts that people have not been shy about pointing out--why is it so hard to believe that he still rates Crouch but that he's got others in mind for most league matches?

In any event, I would not be surprised at all to see Crouch start on Saturday, presuming he doesn't play for England mid-week. After all, his only league start came after the last international break, when Rafa looked to rest Torres and Kuyt. Granted, Crouch was sat at Wembley that time rather than traveling to Russia but, if he doesn't play, I predict Rafa will risk the jet lag and play him, especially given the fact that both Torres and Kuyt have muscle tears.

Not to sure about that Bob

The Sunday Mirror says Crouch has been angered by suggestions Liverpool want to cash in on him now because he has refused to sign a new long-term deal that would protect his value in the transfer market.

Liverpool value Crouch at about £8million, but a source close to the player said: "Peter has not rejected a new contract - because he hasn't been offered one by the club.

"They spent the summer months securing several players on new deals - and it said everything that Peter was not one of those players asked to secure his future."

Crouch is planning to resist any Liverpool attempt to sell him before the end of the season - although that may change if Manchester City or Newcastle launch a bid for a player both Sven Goran Eriksson and Sam Allardyce have been tracking for months.

Bring back memories of Fowler before he went to Leeds?

by **redhayesy** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:25 am

all this talk of not been offered a new contract, & might be sold in january
is cause for concern imho, we need & must have strenghth in depth up front
not sell them etc, but i would love to see crouch given a fair crack at the
whip to see if his attitude is up to the task (which i"m sure it is)
before debating on whether to offer him a new contract or not
starting with a place against the bitters!! -"he"s big he"s red his feet
stick out the bed peter crouch, peter crouch"

by **roberto green** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:29 am

s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Actually, I'm not at all convinced that Rafa sees Crouch as surplus to requirements. Based on appearances to date it seems as though the big man is in the frame for the Champions League and cup matches first and foremost, with starts in the league being handed to others. As Rafa is a firm believer in rotation as a policy and as he is stubborn--two facts that people have not been shy about pointing out--why is it so hard to believe that he still rates Crouch but that he's got others in mind for most league matches?

In any event, I would not be surprised at all to see Crouch start on Saturday, presuming he doesn't play for England mid-week. After all, his only league start came after the last international break, when Rafa looked to rest Torres and Kuyt. Granted, Crouch was sat at Wembley that time rather than traveling to Russia but, if he doesn't play, I predict Rafa will risk the jet lag and play him, especially given the fact that both Torres and Kuyt have muscle tears.

Not to sure about that Bob

The Sunday Mirror says Crouch has been angered by suggestions Liverpool want to cash in on him now because he has refused to sign a new long-term deal that would protect his value in the transfer market.

Liverpool value Crouch at about £8million, but a source close to the player said: "Peter has not rejected a new contract - because he hasn't been offered one by the club.

"They spent the summer months securing several players on new deals - and it said everything that Peter was not one of those players asked to secure his future."

Crouch is planning to resist any Liverpool attempt to sell him before the end of the season - although that may change if Manchester City or Newcastle launch a bid for a player both Sven Goran Eriksson and Sam Allardyce have been tracking for months.

Bring back memories of Fowler before he went to Leeds?

Fowler(in his prime) and Crouch?

Bring back memories of Fowlers sale to Leeds?
there is no comparison it just shows how far we have fallen if people think of him as a good striker for us :no

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:41 am

roberto green wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Actually, I'm not at all convinced that Rafa sees Crouch as surplus to requirements. Based on appearances to date it seems as though the big man is in the frame for the Champions League and cup matches first and foremost, with starts in the league being handed to others. As Rafa is a firm believer in rotation as a policy and as he is stubborn--two facts that people have not been shy about pointing out--why is it so hard to believe that he still rates Crouch but that he's got others in mind for most league matches?

In any event, I would not be surprised at all to see Crouch start on Saturday, presuming he doesn't play for England mid-week. After all, his only league start came after the last international break, when Rafa looked to rest Torres and Kuyt. Granted, Crouch was sat at Wembley that time rather than traveling to Russia but, if he doesn't play, I predict Rafa will risk the jet lag and play him, especially given the fact that both Torres and Kuyt have muscle tears.

Not to sure about that Bob

The Sunday Mirror says Crouch has been angered by suggestions Liverpool want to cash in on him now because he has refused to sign a new long-term deal that would protect his value in the transfer market.

Liverpool value Crouch at about £8million, but a source close to the player said: "Peter has not rejected a new contract - because he hasn't been offered one by the club.

"They spent the summer months securing several players on new deals - and it said everything that Peter was not one of those players asked to secure his future."

Crouch is planning to resist any Liverpool attempt to sell him before the end of the season - although that may change if Manchester City or Newcastle launch a bid for a player both Sven Goran Eriksson and Sam Allardyce have been tracking for months.

Bring back memories of Fowler before he went to Leeds?

Fowler(in his prime) and Crouch?

Bring back memories of Fowlers sale to Leeds?
there is no comparison it just shows how far we have fallen if people think of him as a good striker for us

Sorry mate I was meaning the way Houllier kept saying Fowler hasn't signed a new contract, when infact he hadn't been offered one.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:04 am

s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Actually, I'm not at all convinced that Rafa sees Crouch as surplus to requirements. Based on appearances to date it seems as though the big man is in the frame for the Champions League and cup matches first and foremost, with starts in the league being handed to others. As Rafa is a firm believer in rotation as a policy and as he is stubborn--two facts that people have not been shy about pointing out--why is it so hard to believe that he still rates Crouch but that he's got others in mind for most league matches?

In any event, I would not be surprised at all to see Crouch start on Saturday, presuming he doesn't play for England mid-week. After all, his only league start came after the last international break, when Rafa looked to rest Torres and Kuyt. Granted, Crouch was sat at Wembley that time rather than traveling to Russia but, if he doesn't play, I predict Rafa will risk the jet lag and play him, especially given the fact that both Torres and Kuyt have muscle tears.

Not to sure about that Bob

The Sunday Mirror says Crouch has been angered by suggestions Liverpool want to cash in on him now because he has refused to sign a new long-term deal that would protect his value in the transfer market.

Liverpool value Crouch at about £8million, but a source close to the player said: "Peter has not rejected a new contract - because he hasn't been offered one by the club.

"They spent the summer months securing several players on new deals - and it said everything that Peter was not one of those players asked to secure his future."

Crouch is planning to resist any Liverpool attempt to sell him before the end of the season - although that may change if Manchester City or Newcastle launch a bid for a player both Sven Goran Eriksson and Sam Allardyce have been tracking for months.

Bring back memories of Fowler before he went to Leeds?

One of the few benefits of supporting Liverpool from overseas, mate, is that I don't get inundated with all of the press rumours, speculations, fabrications, etc. From experience I've learned that, if I read the online version of the Echo and the official LiverpoolFC site everyday and have a peek into Soccernet and Football365 as well, I'll get a pretty accurate reflection of what's going on with the club. So, if the story isn't on one of these sites--and so far this one isn't--I tend not to give it much credence until such time as it does get on these sites' radar. All of this is to say that, while there may be something to these rumours, I'm not yet convinced that's it not all just paper talk. It is a pretty easy story to write, right?: Crouch is certainly not getting minutes in the league so there must have been some sort of falling out, contract dispute, etc. Personally, I'll be more inclined to agree if Crouch doesn't make the bench on Saturday and if he doesn't start in Turkey.

by **roberto green** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:07 am

s@int wrote:
roberto green wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Actually, I'm not at all convinced that Rafa sees Crouch as surplus to requirements. Based on appearances to date it seems as though the big man is in the frame for the Champions League and cup matches first and foremost, with starts in the league being handed to others. As Rafa is a firm believer in rotation as a policy and as he is stubborn--two facts that people have not been shy about pointing out--why is it so hard to believe that he still rates Crouch but that he's got others in mind for most league matches?

In any event, I would not be surprised at all to see Crouch start on Saturday, presuming he doesn't play for England mid-week. After all, his only league start came after the last international break, when Rafa looked to rest Torres and Kuyt. Granted, Crouch was sat at Wembley that time rather than traveling to Russia but, if he doesn't play, I predict Rafa will risk the jet lag and play him, especially given the fact that both Torres and Kuyt have muscle tears.

Not to sure about that Bob

The Sunday Mirror says Crouch has been angered by suggestions Liverpool want to cash in on him now because he has refused to sign a new long-term deal that would protect his value in the transfer market.

Liverpool value Crouch at about £8million, but a source close to the player said: "Peter has not rejected a new contract - because he hasn't been offered one by the club.

"They spent the summer months securing several players on new deals - and it said everything that Peter was not one of those players asked to secure his future."

Crouch is planning to resist any Liverpool attempt to sell him before the end of the season - although that may change if Manchester City or Newcastle launch a bid for a player both Sven Goran Eriksson and Sam Allardyce have been tracking for months.

Bring back memories of Fowler before he went to Leeds?

Fowler(in his prime) and Crouch?

Bring back memories of Fowlers sale to Leeds?
there is no comparison it just shows how far we have fallen if people think of him as a good striker for us

Sorry mate I was meaning the way Houllier kept saying Fowler hasn't signed a new contract, when infact he hadn't been offered one.

No sorry,I know what you mean, i just sheepishly looked at Crouch and Fowler being mentinoed in the same setence as being forced out.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:18 am

woooooooooooooooooahhhhhhhhhhhh you've got the worst midfield in the world...
coz Carsley's a slaphead,
Neville's an inbred,
and Cahill's a fuckin @rsehoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooole.

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:29 am

Ciggy wrote:woooooooooooooooooahhhhhhhhhhhh you've got the worst midfield in the world...
coz Carsley's a slaphead,
Neville's an inbred,
and Cahill's a fuckin @rsehoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooole.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:45 am

Bad Bob,Oct. 15 2007,23:57]Actually, I'm not at all convinced that Rafa sees Crouch as surplus to requirements. Based on appearances to date it seems as though the big man is in the frame for the Champions League and cup matches first and foremost, with starts in the league being handed to others. As Rafa is a firm believer in rotation as a policy and as he is stubborn--two facts that people have not been shy about pointing out--why is it so hard to believe that he still rates Crouch but that he's got others in mind for most league matches?

In any event, I would not be surprised at all to see Crouch start on Saturday, presuming he doesn't play for England mid-week. After all, his only league start came after the last international break, when Rafa looked to rest Torres and Kuyt. Granted, Crouch was sat at Wembley that time rather than traveling to Russia but, if he doesn't play, I predict Rafa will risk the jet lag and play him, especially given the fact that both Torres and Kuyt have muscle tears.

[/quote]
Bob i agree he may get a start on Saturday....BUT thats only due to the fact that Torres and Kuyt are major doubts.
Something has definately gone on behind the scenes i think because he has been effectively bombed out, similar to Cisse and Bellamy, he may get the odd game here and there but he is not even in the squad most of the time, and is being given no real opportunity to play himself in to form or gel with the other players (although he's not alone there)
He will be gone by the summer, that seems clear to me.
I only hope Rafa has a replacement lined up as at the moment its as if we only have 3 strikers on the books.
The fact that Crouch is playing in cup games isnt relevant really mate, i think thats just to give the others a rest.

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