Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:52 pm

Watching the Spurs game with no prior knowledge of the club, you'd think half the team were genuinely poor players. You'd think Sami and Carra had never met one another

FWIW I think Pennant is a good player to have in the side at present.

But I'm sorry, to be blatantly fair Keane and Berbatov certainly made it look like the two had never partnered eachother before. Sami was sluggish, and to call someone a wolf for there honest opinion is bollox really, would you rather me say Sami played a blinder ? Better still the whole team did, there you go Ivor I hope that didnt offend you.

Ps, Carra and Gerrard especially were poor to.

by **LittleHobo** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:55 pm

i blame benitez because he has signed players who simply aint up for a championship challenge

good players for sure but not good enough to win week in week out.

pennant - average, good enough for a top 6 team but good enough for a championship winning team? no

riise - as a left back maybe, but as a left mid? no

babel - not a winger yet rafa persists with playing him there

benayoun - good player but not a great player

the wings are our problem and rafa is to blame for not signing better players..the current wingers aint up to it in terms of a premiership winning challenge

by **ivor_the_injun** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:02 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
Watching the Spurs game with no prior knowledge of the club, you'd think half the team were genuinely poor players. You'd think Sami and Carra had never met one another

FWIW I think Pennant is a good player to have in the side at present.

But I'm sorry, to be blatantly fair Keane and Berbatov certainly made it look like the two had never partnered eachother before. Sami was sluggish, and to call someone a wolf for there honest opinion is bollox really, would you rather me say Sami played a blinder ? Better still the whole team did, there you go Ivor I hope that didnt offend you.

Ps, Carra and Gerrard especially were poor to.

It was puroresu's comment that Pennant wasn't good enough that I was getting at.

To observe that a player has a bad game I have no problem with - it's blatantly obvious. Sami was sh*te on Sunday, Carra was little better, and Gerrard was well below par also.

I'm just saying that some people have been coming out saying all kinds, and using the current slump as evidence that players they've always disliked aren't LFC material, and I think that's a bit cheap. Particularly as I actually think Pennant runs Torres close as our player of the season so far.

by **murphy0151** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:07 pm

LittleHobo wrote:i blame benitez because he has signed players who simply aint up for a championship challenge

good players for sure but not good enough to win week in week out.

pennant - average, good enough for a top 6 team but good enough for a championship winning team? no

riise - as a left back maybe, but as a left mid? no

babel - not a winger yet rafa persists with playing him there

benayoun - good player but not a great player

the wings are our problem and rafa is to blame for not signing better players..the current wingers aint up to it in terms of a premiership winning challenge

Littlehobo where do you mean with Riise mate? I of left him back aswell. In the bloody changing rooms. I only wish i had a quid for every time he has hit it over the bar. Add to that his defending skills or should i say lack off.

This place really is funny. I have got to laugh every time I come on. I bet you these same people who are blaming Rafa now were saying "yes, Rafas bought well, we can win the premeirship this year" yet now the same people are blaming Rafa for bad signings lol Funny it is. And these same people have changed there views in what is nearly two months before it all went wrong.

Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon. How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league. PAtience my frineds patience.

by **Sabre** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:10 pm

Bamaga man wrote:

Singling out individuals is kind of pointless right now

The whole team is playing poorly but from what I saw of the game on Sunday it was a game to forget for Sami.

Some good posts in this thread, there are indeed more things than rotation to talk about.

On this point, well, when someone sees that a striker is able to head the ball twice they'll look at Sammy rapidly. Maybe it's fair enough, but in order the striker receive that service you have to make some mistakes before. My point is that for instance, in a goal we received against Chelsea in the CL, many blamed Agger for being dribbled by Hyypia, but the mistake that lead to that counter was somewhere in the pitch.

Hyypia did not a good game last day, but at the same time, I think he's been a proper replacement for Agger in the previous games, and I woudn't look at the CB for scapegoats or total explanation of our troubles.

by **LittleHobo** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:19 pm

murphy0151 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:i blame benitez because he has signed players who simply aint up for a championship challenge

good players for sure but not good enough to win week in week out.

pennant - average, good enough for a top 6 team but good enough for a championship winning team? no

riise - as a left back maybe, but as a left mid? no

babel - not a winger yet rafa persists with playing him there

benayoun - good player but not a great player

the wings are our problem and rafa is to blame for not signing better players..the current wingers aint up to it in terms of a premiership winning challenge

Littlehobo where do you mean with Riise mate? I of left him back aswell. In the bloody changing rooms. I only wish i had a quid for every time he has hit it over the bar. Add to that his defending skills or should i say lack off.

This place really is funny. I have got to laugh every time I come on. I bet you these same people who are blaming Rafa now were saying "yes, Rafas bought well, we can win the premeirship this year" yet now the same people are blaming Rafa for bad signings lol Funny it is. And these same people have changed there views in what is nearly two months before it all went wrong.

Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon. How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league. PAtience my frineds patience.

wow thank god you aint on the board of directors

with thinking like this we might aswell give rafa a 25 year contract so we can finish 3rd of 4th for the next 20 years

sorry but this is season 4 for rafa and we still dont look like a team, he hasnt worked out the formula in the premiership and should go at the end of the season if we dont at least mount a challenge this season.

the guy is good but will never lead us to premiership glory

by **Owzat** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:21 pm

murphy0151 wrote:Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon. How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league. PAtience my frineds patience.

Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself several times over, using the freak occurence that is fergie as an example is terrible. fergie got lucky, some berk sold him Cantona and he spent as much as anyone at the time money became decisive. The myth about fergie's fledglings is easily dispelled, Schmeichel, Irwin, Bruce, Pallister, Robson, Hughes, Cantona, Kanchelskis and Keane didn't come up through the ranks and cost a fair bit combined. Rafa hasn't got a budget equal to Chelsea and Rafa has to be more than a better tactician and manager (that only works in Europe) Liverpool need to win, win and win again - ad nauseam. We need to win about 2/3 of our games not 1/2 (26 compared to 19)

You have to assess whether the team is making progress, I would say this team took a step backwards and Rafa's spending doesn't help his cause if he doesn't finish higher each season

by **LittleHobo** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:25 pm

i like rafa but if we dont mount a serious title challenge this season he must go, this is his 4th season for fukkks sake

as a fan its getting embarassing, no title for far too long now

its not like we aint got the fininacial muscle either, no excuses really.

by **LittleHobo** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:28 pm

also a few things i find unacceptable

the left winger issue or any wing to be honest......we were crying out for world class and rafa didnt deliver....kewell is too injury prone and ryan babel just isnt a winger

also luis garcias guile is missed in certain games, benayoun can replace him but just isnt being given as much game time as garcia got

by **puroresu** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:48 pm

why was babel signed? i aint sure even the manager knows what to do with him.

by **LittleHobo** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:54 pm

puroresu wrote:why was babel signed? i aint sure even the manager knows what to do with him.

he looks like an arsenal player to me

he doesnt suit our style of play

by **LittleHobo** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:57 pm

simao went to athelico madrid for similar money to babel

that makes me want to weep

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:18 pm

murphy0151 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:

Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon. How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league. PAtience my frineds patience.

Not a valid point, sorry. You can't compare Ferguson to Rafa, or indeed the league and style of football being played. Things have changed drastically since he won the first PL. Most notably in the transfere market. There were very few foreigners in the league at the time, and Fergies main draw of talent came not from mega bucks signings from abroad, but from the young talent that grew up playing the type of football that was known to win leagues at the time from their youth ranks.

If you look at our best players over the past 15 years or so, give or take, they have mostly all been bought or brought in from our youth teams. If you took all the best of those over the years and kept them to make one team Liverpool team (Gerrard, Owen, Folwer, McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp etc etc) then I dare say we would have won the league more than once already. The trouble is, we havn't spawned enough of these players through the academy. The backbone of United through the years has been just this. It's probably the reason why they havn't been as prolific in Europe. We've had too many teams with so many foreign players over the years, that as soon as we got a half decent manager, we were bound to do well on the continent.

by **Leonmc0708** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:27 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
murphy0151 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:

Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon. How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league. PAtience my frineds patience.

Not a valid point, sorry. You can't compare Ferguson to Rafa, or indeed the league and style of football being played. Things have changed drastically since he won the first PL. Most notably in the transfere market. There were very few foreigners in the league at the time, and Fergies main draw of talent came not from mega bucks signings from abroad, but from the young talent that grew up playing the type of football that was known to win leagues at the time from their youth ranks.

If you look at our best players over the past 15 years or so, give or take, they have mostly all been bought or brought in from our youth teams. If you took all the best of those over the years and kept them to make one team Liverpool team (Gerrard, Owen, Folwer, McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp etc etc) then I dare say we would have won the league more than once already. The trouble is, we havn't spawned enough of these players through the academy. The backbone of United through the years has been just this. It's probably the reason why they havn't been as prolific in Europe. We've had too many teams with so many foreign players over the years, that as soon as we got a half decent manager, we were bound to do well on the continent.

Cantona
Kanchelskis
Schmeichel

3 big reasons for their successs and not home grown.

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:34 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
murphy0151 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:

Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon. How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league. PAtience my frineds patience.

Not a valid point, sorry. You can't compare Ferguson to Rafa, or indeed the league and style of football being played. Things have changed drastically since he won the first PL. Most notably in the transfere market. There were very few foreigners in the league at the time, and Fergies main draw of talent came not from mega bucks signings from abroad, but from the young talent that grew up playing the type of football that was known to win leagues at the time from their youth ranks.

If you look at our best players over the past 15 years or so, give or take, they have mostly all been bought or brought in from our youth teams. If you took all the best of those over the years and kept them to make one team Liverpool team (Gerrard, Owen, Folwer, McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp etc etc) then I dare say we would have won the league more than once already. The trouble is, we havn't spawned enough of these players through the academy. The backbone of United through the years has been just this. It's probably the reason why they havn't been as prolific in Europe. We've had too many teams with so many foreign players over the years, that as soon as we got a half decent manager, we were bound to do well on the continent.

Cantona
Kanchelskis
Schmeichel

3 big reasons for their successs and not home grown.

Well, certainly they were a factor, yes. But Cantona was not always there through the majority of their success and nor was Kanchelskis. If you ask me, the two far more pivotal players in those kind of posstions were Keane and Giggs and even Scholes. Without those three, United wouldn't be half the force they were and are today. Schmeichel, on the other hand, was by far their most important foreign player. Certainly, they maintained their dominance and strength through their youth system.

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