Liverpool FC Forum

by **mattylfc** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:27 pm

I honestly believe that Rafa is looking at the bigger picture with Torres. I wouldnt be surprised if Rafa is trying his best to keep the pressure off of Torres by not playing him in every league game. Torres came here with a big price tag and a big reputation, Its Rafas job as a manager to look after Torres and also let him know that its not all about him. He made a point after the game last night of saying that we have four quality strikers, not one. He also said that he will pick the team that is best for that particular game.

I said in another thread that i wasnt surprised he wasnt included against Birmingham as i too thought he would find it hard to create space and get in behind the defense, much like Bellamy struggled last year.

Im not saying that i completely agreed with this but i did see Rafas point in that he perhaps thought that Torres wouldnt get much joy and it could have possibly knocked his confidence a bit. Its easy for us to say now but had we won, there would have been little complaint, just like there wasnt when Van Persie was rested on the same day for Arsenal in a similar fixture.

by **AB's Red Army** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:33 pm

mattylfc wrote:I honestly believe that Rafa is looking at the bigger picture with Torres. I wouldnt be surprised if Rafa is trying his best to keep the pressure off of Torres by not playing him in every league game. Torres came here with a big price tag and a big reputation, Its Rafas job as a manager to look after Torres and also let him know that its not all about him. He made a point after the game last night of saying that we have four quality strikers, not one. He also said that he will pick the team that is best for that particular game.

I said in another thread that i wasnt surprised he wasnt included against Birmingham as i too thought he would find it hard to create space and get in behind the defense, much like Bellamy struggled last year.

Im not saying that i completely agreed with this but i did see Rafas point in that he perhaps thought that Torres wouldnt get much joy and it could have possibly knocked his confidence a bit. Its easy for us to say now but had we won, there would have been little complaint, just like there wasnt when Van Persie was rested on the same day for Arsenal in a similar fixture.

Well said.

by **grayghost** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:56 pm

AB's Red Army wrote:
mattylfc wrote:I honestly believe that Rafa is looking at the bigger picture with Torres. I wouldnt be surprised if Rafa is trying his best to keep the pressure off of Torres by not playing him in every league game. Torres came here with a big price tag and a big reputation, Its Rafas job as a manager to look after Torres and also let him know that its not all about him. He made a point after the game last night of saying that we have four quality strikers, not one. He also said that he will pick the team that is best for that particular game.

I said in another thread that i wasnt surprised he wasnt included against Birmingham as i too thought he would find it hard to create space and get in behind the defense, much like Bellamy struggled last year.

Im not saying that i completely agreed with this but i did see Rafas point in that he perhaps thought that Torres wouldnt get much joy and it could have possibly knocked his confidence a bit. Its easy for us to say now but had we won, there would have been little complaint, just like there wasnt when Van Persie was rested on the same day for Arsenal in a similar fixture.

Well said.

The pressure at Atheltico madrid for him was more than the pres here he was captain at 19 ther best player and the 1 who the fans loved and looked to for the goals he handled that well he can handle any thing here as well

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:01 pm

In all fairness to the guy, at Athletico Madrid he wasn't playing with the same standard of player as he's playing with here. He also had to play as winger and a lone striker a lot of the time and still managed a goal ratio that was slightly better than 1 in 3.

The lad has everything to succeed in the Premier League, pace, power, strength, heading ability and total desire to win. He was brilliant last night and stood up to the physical side of the game really well which was a positive sign. I criticised him for going down a bit to easily in some of the earlier games but his attitude and application last night were top class.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:13 pm

mattylfc wrote:I said in another thread that i wasnt surprised he wasnt included against Birmingham as i too thought he would find it hard to create space and get in behind the defense, much like Bellamy struggled last year.

While I don't completely dismiss the notion that Rafa didn't play him because Torres would find it hard to create space behind the defenders I would just add that not all goals including some from Torres are created that way.

His second goal last night for example came from him coming late into the penalty area onto a ball that was cut back from Riise , there we're three defenders in the six yard box between him and the keeper and he just stuck it away.

To me the decision to not play him because he won't find space behind the defenders doesn't fully justify his exclusion.

by **dawson99** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:15 pm

and as ive said i think u lot see torres as too one dimensional...which he isnt

by **mattylfc** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:23 pm

I dont see Torres as one dimensional personally. I was simply suggesting reasons for Torres not being picked against Birmingham and can see why Rafa may have seen Kuyt and Voronin as better options in this particular game.

Torres has already shown that he has much more to his game than just pace, a lot more.

He really, really impressed me last night. He seems to be learning very quickly. The way that he kept getting back up everytime he was kicked was not something i thought i would see from him. Made me proud.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:24 pm

mattylfc wrote:I said in another thread that i wasnt surprised he wasnt included against Birmingham as i too thought he would find it hard to create space and get in behind the defense

If this is one of Torres’ weaknesses then surely it would be best to rectify such a weakness whilst he is still young by playing in him in such games, so he learns how to create space in the tightest of margins?

Torres is not the final product of what he can become, so I don’t understand the concept of Torres not playing against deep lying defenders.

The problem with the Birmingham game was the end product, in which Torres could have supplied the team with that said if Torres is good enough to score against Chelsea, then he is good enough to score against Birmingham IMO.

by **Sabre** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:26 pm

In the "Spanish thread" a long-life Atletico fan and a die hard Torres fan puts in a decent english his view about Torres, it's worth a read.

The english style has been convenient for Torres. In Spain when a team doesn't like what's going on in the middle the team will make a tactical little foul. English game is more... let's find the proper word... noble (honest?) in that sense. English game has less interruptions and continuous play is something convenient for Torres (in a set pieces situation the defending team has the chance to put all the lines in order).

I'm very happy he's responded so far to what Liverpool has paid for him. No doubt the defenders will learn a couple of tricks against Torres (all players are well known with time) but I definitely think this game suits him well. his attitude so far has surprised me to be honest, and he's been brilliant so far.

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:30 pm

Sabre wrote:In the "Spanish thread" a long-life Atletico fan and a die hard Torres fan puts in a decent english his view about Torres, it's worth a read.

The english style has been convenient for Torres. In Spain when a team doesn't like what's going on in the middle the team will make a tactical little foul. English game is more... let's find the proper word... noble (honest?) in that sense. English game has less interruptions and continuous play is something convenient for Torres (in a set pieces situation the defending team has the chance to put all the lines in order).

I'm very happy he's responded so far to what Liverpool has paid for him. No doubt the defenders will learn a couple of tricks against Torres (all players are well known with time) but I definitely think this game suits him well. his attitude so far has surprised me to be honest, and he's been brilliant so far.

Sure he was getting way worse than what he got last night when he was back in Spain.

I remember Atletico playing Barca in the Nou Camp a couple of seasons back when Puyol basically kicked hiom left right and centre. However he just got on with it and scored 2 goals to basically silence the whole stadium.

by **mattylfc** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:34 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
mattylfc wrote:I said in another thread that i wasnt surprised he wasnt included against Birmingham as i too thought he would find it hard to create space and get in behind the defense

If this is one of Torres’ weaknesses then surely it would be best to rectify such a weakness whilst he is still young by playing in him in such games, so he learns how to create space in the tightest of margins?

Torres is not the final product of what he can become, so I don’t understand the concept of Torres not playing against deep lying defenders.

The problem with the Birmingham game was the end product, in which Torres could have supplied the team with that said if Torres is good enough to score against Chelsea, then he is good enough to score against Birmingham IMO.

I completely agree mate, Torres would have definitely gave us more options attacking wise.

All i am trying to say is that i can see his thinking behind the decision.

As you mentioned, the attacking threat was poor. It wasnt just the strikers though, the midfield didnt give a huge amount of options when going forward either.

There is no way that Rafa will make a habit of resting Torres in games such as this as most teams will come to anfield and do exactly the same thing. Rafa, as he has said, obviously thought that this was the best attacking option for this particluar game. Unfortunately for us, and Rafa, it wasnt.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:36 pm

Sabre wrote:In the "Spanish thread" a long-life Atletico fan and a die hard Torres fan puts in a decent english his view about Torres, it's worth a read.

The english style has been convenient for Torres. In Spain when a team doesn't like what's going on in the middle the team will make a tactical little foul. English game is more... let's find the proper word... noble (honest?) in that sense. English game has less interruptions and continuous play is something convenient for Torres (in a set pieces situation the defending team has the chance to put all the lines in order).

I'm very happy he's responded so far to what Liverpool has paid for him. No doubt the defenders will learn a couple of tricks against Torres (all players are well known with time) but I definitely think this game suits him well. his attitude so far has surprised me to be honest, and he's been brilliant so far.

Sabre, as Mick would say "I know it's early but"

are we seeing a different Torres from the one you saw play in Spain ? Has the more honest English game and the fact that he's surrounded by better (?) players changed his game that much ?

by **Wilhelmsson** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:46 pm

mattylfc wrote:I completely agree mate, Torres would have definitely gave us more options attacking wise.

All i am trying to say is that i can see his thinking behind the decision.

As you mentioned, the attacking threat was poor. It wasnt just the strikers though, the midfield didnt give a huge amount of options when going forward either.

There is no way that Rafa will make a habit of resting Torres in games such as this as most teams will come to anfield and do exactly the same thing. Rafa, as he has said, obviously thought that this was the best attacking option for this particluar game. Unfortunately for us, and Rafa, it wasnt.

I understand what you are saying, Rafa comments were clearly misunderstood by me because from what I read, I was presented with the impression that Rafa was wrapping up Torres in cotton wool to maintain the lad’s confidence and form.

I’d like to see Torres start against Wigan to maintain the confidence and to build momentum from last night’s display.

by **Sabre** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:47 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Sabre wrote:In the "Spanish thread" a long-life Atletico fan and a die hard Torres fan puts in a decent english his view about Torres, it's worth a read.

The english style has been convenient for Torres. In Spain when a team doesn't like what's going on in the middle the team will make a tactical little foul. English game is more... let's find the proper word... noble (honest?) in that sense. English game has less interruptions and continuous play is something convenient for Torres (in a set pieces situation the defending team has the chance to put all the lines in order).

I'm very happy he's responded so far to what Liverpool has paid for him. No doubt the defenders will learn a couple of tricks against Torres (all players are well known with time) but I definitely think this game suits him well. his attitude so far has surprised me to be honest, and he's been brilliant so far.

Sabre, as Mick would say "I know it's early but" are we seeing a different Torres from the one you saw play in Spain ? Has the more honest English game and the fact that he's surrounded by better (?) players changed his game that much ?

Or maybe the physical and the more pacy league is not such?

Who knows, but I don't regret a word of what I said, just saying things like I saw them and even the die hard fans acknowledge them.

I won't stop criticising him and chilling down the people about him, not as long as he keeps scoring, I'm superstitious :laugh:

When he has the bad patch I'll defend him :;):

Seriously, I don't think football is that different and players are different. Of course I remember nights of glory like the one St Michael reminds me, Barcelona is the classic game that's seen abroad. Barcelona leaves space and leaves playing aswell. But honestly I saw a lot of games against Getafes and Osasunas (i.e. Portsmouth, Birmingham) that he ended up like this

So no, he's not a different player. We all know his bright side. But the bad patch will come, and I hope then I don't have to read he's a waste of money, and that he's yet another Spanish caprice of the coach.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:58 pm

Sabre wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Sabre wrote:In the "Spanish thread" a long-life Atletico fan and a die hard Torres fan puts in a decent english his view about Torres, it's worth a read.

The english style has been convenient for Torres. In Spain when a team doesn't like what's going on in the middle the team will make a tactical little foul. English game is more... let's find the proper word... noble (honest?) in that sense. English game has less interruptions and continuous play is something convenient for Torres (in a set pieces situation the defending team has the chance to put all the lines in order).

I'm very happy he's responded so far to what Liverpool has paid for him. No doubt the defenders will learn a couple of tricks against Torres (all players are well known with time) but I definitely think this game suits him well. his attitude so far has surprised me to be honest, and he's been brilliant so far.

Sabre, as Mick would say "I know it's early but" are we seeing a different Torres from the one you saw play in Spain ? Has the more honest English game and the fact that he's surrounded by better (?) players changed his game that much ?

Or maybe the physical and the more pacy league is not such?

Who knows, but I don't regret a word of what I said, just saying things like I saw them and even the die hard fans acknowledge them.

I won't stop criticising him and chilling down the people about him, not as long as he keeps scoring, I'm superstitious When he has the bad patch I'll defend him

Seriously, I don't think football is that different and players are different. Of course I remember nights of glory like the one St Michael reminds me, Barcelona is the classic game that's seen abroad. Barcelona leaves space and leaves playing aswell. But honestly I saw a lot of games against Getafes and Osasunas (i.e. Portsmouth, Birmingham) that he ended up like this

So no, he's not a different player. We all know his bright side. But the bad patch will come, and I hope then I don't have to read he's a waste of money, and that he's yet another Spanish caprice of the coach.

Wasn't actually asking you to justify anything Sabre . Was just seeking your opinion on the torres in La liga and the torres we are seeing in the premiership .

Thanks anyway.

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