Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:51 pm

I agree that other players need to stand up and be counted, what i was saying is that if before the game we can see that other players arent doing it yet then it would make more sense to play one of the only players we have that is capable of creating something out of nothing.
By the time Rafa is bringing him on Birmingham are well set defensivley and our team as well as the crowd have become frustrated.
There is nothing that will convince me that selecting Kuyt or Voronin ahead of Torres in any game is a positive move.
Any of them alongside Torres then fair enough, but that lad should be starting in every league game.

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:50 pm

I'm feckin fuming over some of the remarks on this site at the moment .
That team that was put out on saturday was easily good enough to beat Birmingham . It was the team that let the manager and the supporters down and they should look at themselves. Should rafa have played torres maybe so ,but it was Birmingham ffs , we should be beating them whatever side we put out. With the squad supposedly stronger(but obviously not according to some) Rafa should be entitled to pick whatever damn team he thinks is good enough to do the job.

That team he put out bar one was our strongest available barring injuries. Why do some forum members insist on blaming the manager whilst overlooking the glaringly obvious none performance from the team. Just to finish ,it's just as much an insult to be called happy clappy or in rafa we trust brigade as it is to be called fickel, also some members said before this game that this was the type of game we should be resting player in . Well he rested one and played our strongest players available in other positions ,and he's been crucified for it . You can't have it both ways , either you want your best players played all the time or you accept that players will be rested,dropped ,rotated, whatever you want to call it.

Can we now get back to reality and talk some sense . By all means critisise the manager for his selection or his tactics , but calling for him to be sacked is fecking silly in the least.

4 pts dropped in the league , most definatly.

Down to the managers team selection , most definatly not , it's down to the players as far as i'm concerend , they were woeful and they know it.

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:14 pm

Fantastic post Igor.

I don't want to name the members who suggested that we should rest players for the match against Birmingham. Many of who are against rotation.

Excuse me for saying so, but if that isn't fucking hypocritical than I don't know what is.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:15 pm

Shouldn't there be a "have a go at Gerrard" thread too? Past few games he's been utterly w@ank! So why not make a thread about him? Is it because we know it's only form and form is temperary and that he'll almost certainly come out in one of the next few games and have a stormer and continue in the same vain? Can't that be said for Rafa too? When you really think about it, apart from the Portsmouth game, we've had teams on the pitch well capable of beating the last two teams we drew against. The players have to be asked questions of as much as Rafa.

Edit - posted this before reading Igor's post above. Exactly what I'm thinking. Good post.

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:16 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Shouldn't there be a "have a go at Gerrard" thread too? Past few games he's been utterly w@ank! So why not make a thread about him? Is it because we know it's only form and form is temperary and that he'll almost certainly come out in one of the next few games and have a stormer and continue in the same vain? Can't that be said for Rafa too? When you really think about it, apart from the Portsmouth game, we've had teams on the pitch well capable of beating the last two teams we drew against. The players have to be asked questions of as much as Rafa.

I had a go at Steven after the Porto thread, and I was scrutinized for doing so. He's a saint, he can't be touched it seems.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:11 pm

Igor i see what your saying and i may have mentioned resting players against Birmingham....but that was after the Portsmouth game when we should of played the strongest team. After dropping points there and United winning 3 on the bounce with Arsenal also winning games i would not of rested anyone against Birmingham.
What most were saying is that IF players needed a rest perhaps against Birmingham would of been the better game. The draw at Pompey when Gerrard and Torres didnt play meant set us back. It puts pressure on the next result. To then start without Torres,for a reason i cant work out- i've just watched the match back and despite Rafa saying they would sit deep, they never...they squeezed up at every opportunity, and the reason they did that is because we never had anyone that was going to get in behind.
I am not saying the players arent to blame, they obviously played poorly and need to take a look at themselves but still Rafa gave them (Birmingham) a huge boost leaving Fernando out. Torres should not play against Reading tomorrow that leaves plenty of recovery time.
There are certain players that shouldnt be rested if we want to win this league and Torres is one of them.
By the way AB regarding Gerrard i thought he worked his balls off and suffered due to the fact that everything was coming through the middle...which was overcrowded as the Birmingham defenders had pushed up...because they could. He looked to be the only player capable of getting things going and the only worrying thing for me is the obvious frustration in his play in the second half when we were hopelessly short on attacking ideas.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:25 pm

I just want to add to this, isnt anyone else feeling like its groundhog day ?
Last season i made excuses at the start when we were losing the games blaming anyone but the manager, the fixtures etc.
This season i looked at the fixtures and was made up, my excitement was repaid when we seen the line up for the Villa game, two up front and we went for the win...no messing straight from the off, show them we mean business- well in Rafa.
We are then robbed against Chelsea but for the first time we look like the better team in a league game...when they have a full first team available...again things look great.
Sunderland away but for a superb performance from Gordon it could of been about 4 or 5-0, Spurs lost there...2 away wins got to be happy...Torres looks such a threat, and all of the time.
Derby at home, we looked fantastic, Babel gets a fantastic first goal, Torres another two and all without the captain and vice captain, still it was only Derby.
Then to Portsmouth, we can excuse leaving Gerrard out after his injury and the fact that Mclaren picked him for both England games, but no Torres, our brightest attackig player so far in the season, and someone who imo has revolutionalised our attack, no more short on ideas, devoid of a focal point with pace that can stay on side and works for the team, this lad has got it all, and appears made for away games when we want to counter quickly, but he was left out, its a squad game and other players are better suited for this fixture.
Can anyone hand on heart say they think thats the case, cos i frickin dont. We drop points and are lucky to even get the one, putting pressure on us to pick up the 3 points against Birmingham. But after struggling for goals or even to create openings for 3 games, what do we do ? Leave out our star striker again.
I know its only Birmingham...Kuyt and Voronin can score goals against these no problems, rest Torres again...he'll be flying next game...although its a week away, the lad will probably not be match fit if Rafa's not careful.

I may be going OTT with this, but it just seems that we are not learning from past mistakes, the teams that usually win the Premier league get off to a good start, then when in form pick mostly a settled side and before the game has even started have the points in the bag as the opponents fear them before a ball has even been kicked.

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:36 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:Igor i see what your saying and i may have mentioned resting players against Birmingham....but that was after the Portsmouth game when we should of played the strongest team. After dropping points there and United winning 3 on the bounce with Arsenal also winning games i would not of rested anyone against Birmingham.
What most were saying is that IF players needed a rest perhaps against Birmingham would of been the better game. The draw at Pompey when Gerrard and Torres didnt play meant set us back. It puts pressure on the next result. To then start without Torres,for a reason i cant work out- i've just watched the match back and despite Rafa saying they would sit deep, they never...they squeezed up at every opportunity, and the reason they did that is because we never had anyone that was going to get in behind.
I am not saying the players arent to blame, they obviously played poorly and need to take a look at themselves but still Rafa gave them (Birmingham) a huge boost leaving Fernando out. Torres should not play against Reading tomorrow that leaves plenty of recovery time.
There are certain players that shouldnt be rested if we want to win this league and Torres is one of them.
By the way AB regarding Gerrard i thought he worked his balls off and suffered due to the fact that everything was coming through the middle...which was overcrowded as the Birmingham defenders had pushed up...because they could. He looked to be the only player capable of getting things going and the only worrying thing for me is the obvious frustration in his play in the second half when we were hopelessly short on attacking ideas.

He rested one player ace ,and that was Torres , are we now saying that the other 3 strikers are not good enough to play against the so called weaker teams , and isn't it clear that by saying Gerrard and Torres are our only attacking threat a sad endictment on the rest of our so called better squad , as AB said they need to step up to the plate and show they are quality players. If your gonna blame rafa for anything , blame him for buying these players. They know they should be producing better performances and it's down to them and them alone that fans like your good self want to rely on the likes of Gerrard and Torres so much.

Are kuyt vorinin and crouch so bad , is babel not good enough and where's benayoun , all supposedly players that have improved our squad , well maybe it's time for them to prove that Rafa was right in buying them.I would blame rafa if he merited it mate i promise you , but on this occasion it was down to the players and them alone. Torres should not be have to brought on with half an hour to go or with a full half to go. That game should have been boxed off with the team that was selected. They didn't perform , they were :censored:

, it's as simple as that mate. IMO.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:42 pm

To sum it up in one most of us are just really pissed off that Torres hasnt started the last two league games that we needed to win them two bore draws felt like a defeat.
The lad is special we want to see that something special not to be deprived of it. Plus he is the best forward we have.

He is here now we want to see him play thats all.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:48 pm

The only disappointment is the Birmingham games, we simply should have taken 3 points irrespective to whether we left Torres out or “over rotated”.

The thing is that we were not unlucky, their keeper hardly made a save and after 2 disappointing performance we really needed to a comfortable win the boost are self-belief.

Title winning teams tend not to not win three games in a row and give 3 pedestrian performances in a row.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:59 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:Title winning teams tend not to not win three games in a row and give 3 pedestrian performances in a row.

Thats the problem with Liverpool they seem to lose the momentum and confidence after playing really well then have another few really good games then it goes stale once again.

Gets you down sometimes remember the Charity Sheild against Chelsea we where absolutly brilliant even Gonzales looked good a few weeks later we couldnt even beat Sheffield United and where really poor away from home.

Last season was horrible just horrible I could'nt wait for it to be over, I dont want the same thing to happen again this season.

We are LFC FFS teams in the CL fear us, now we have to put the shits up the domestic clubs and stop giving the oppo to much respect.

Fear no one let them fear us.

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:01 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:Title winning teams tend not to not win three games in a row and give 3 pedestrian performances in a row.

Thats the problem with Liverpool they seem to lose the momentum and confidence after playing really well then have another few really good games then it goes stale once again.

Gets you down sometimes remember the Charity Sheild against Chelsea we where absolutly brilliant even Gonzales looked good a few weeks later we couldnt even beat Sheffield United and where really poor away from home.

Last season was horrible just horrible I could'nt wait for it to be over, I dont want the same thing to happen again this season.

We are LFC FFS teams in the CL fear us, now we have to put the shits up the domestic clubs and stop giving the oppo to much respect.

Fear no one let them fear us.

Well maybe the players selected should get that into there heads lynds.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:09 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Well maybe the players selected should get that into there heads lynds.

Rafa needs to give them the Fergie hairdryer treatment then

by **whatahitson** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:21 pm

Sabre wrote:
whatahitson wrote:If we win the league this season it will be because of other teams mistakes but he wont see it that way, he will just carry on with rotation believing that his policy worked.

If he wins the league after so many years, if he has won the champions league, and the FA cup in 4 years, if he has been able to keep the most important players happy at the club and bring some important players that preffer Liverpool rather than Chelsea, excuse me, but I wouldn't blame him if he thought he's right and the journos who write about him clueless and obsolete.

Talking of excuses, it would be excuses to explain a win in the regularity competition saying the other teams are poor.

all I am saying is that rotation is not the best way forward. The proof is in the pudding. This year has got to be about the league. We have won the CL and FA cup since Rafa has been here., now its time to win the league and we wont do it if we rotate. Dont get me wrong he's a good manager but I am a Liverpool Fan and I have had enough of being second, third or fourth. LFC is about winning the league. Best eleven for the league everytime, rotate for the cups.

by **RAGE UK** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:33 pm

I don’t give two monkeys what any of you say its rafa and his rotating that is fu**ing the players up because there not playing as one unit on the pitch I see have seen far too many missplaced passes played because they are guessing not knowing where the player is or should be .
In Torres own words “if we play more games together we will get better results “.
Meaning if the boss keeps rotating us you will not see our full potential.
I’ve got a great idea lets pay a huge sum of money for a player and rest him half the season
He must be really old and can’t keep up. What a load of bollox.

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