Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:36 am

Its a funny one with Dirk, I like him as a player and he seems like a really top bloke but it's just not happening. Now I know he brings a lot to the team with his workrate, attitude etc etc but at the moment if we are honest we are carrying him from a goal threat point of view.

I said at the start of the season thatI'd have him in my first choice team, and that I'd give him and Torres ten games or so to make it work. Admittedly it hasn't been that long, and they haven't played together that often of late due to the rotation, but I think it's time to make a change. Though he has been absolutely sh!te so far this season I think it's time for Peter Crouch. We proved in the past that we can rotate him out of form, lets try and rotate him into it. Crouch and Torres up top, with Kuyt having a spell on the bench and being told Ian Rush style that all manner of running around won't compensate for a lack of goals. "Next time you get a game Dirk, have a shot now and then just so's we don't forget you're out there, there's a good lad".

It's a change of opinion here for me. Yet more fickleness, ficklocity, mia ficocus or whatever it is. It's time for some rotation, Crouch back in not against Reading, but into our first choice eleven if anyone can remember either what it was or indeed what the concept means these days.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:44 am

Scored agaisnt Porto though.

Never going to be prolific when he plays the support role behind another striker, but makes space for the other forward and works tirelessly.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:45 am

I blame Rafa for Kuyt's lack of goal scoring opportunities TBH, he is an out and out striker not a link up man, Michael Owen would fail to score if he played in Kuyts position aswell thats probably the reason he didnt want to come back here.

Forrest Gump well even Tom Hanks ran faster in that one.

by **dawson99** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:47 am

dirk and veronin really doesnt work, i wanna see dirk and torres more together, that seems to be theone that works, no doubt they'll both start mid week :;):

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:26 pm

For what is worth I preffer Kuyt than Voronin.

I think Kuyt is a good striker, and want to see him alongside Torres more, like in Oporto.

by **metalhead** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:30 pm

Ciggy wrote:I blame Rafa for Kuyt's lack of goal scoring opportunities TBH, he is an out and out striker not a link up man, Michael Owen would fail to score if he played in Kuyts position aswell thats probably the reason he didnt want to come back here.

Forrest Gump well even Tom Hanks ran faster in that one.

I disagree, it doesn't matter if he plays deep or not, just look at how many chances he wastes, thats what matters. If he can finish his chances in every game then he is quality (but he isn't, he is good). Dirk Kuyt in my eyes is an excellent squad player who brings depth to the team and work rate.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:38 pm

metalhead wrote:Dirk Kuyt in my eyes is an excellent squad player who brings depth to the team and work rate.

Not a headless chicken in sight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRr36ihAnZU

by **metalhead** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:48 pm

Ciggy wrote:
metalhead wrote:Dirk Kuyt in my eyes is an excellent squad player who brings depth to the team and work rate.

Not a headless chicken in sight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRr36ihAnZU

Go back to the Derby game and go back to other games (i.e newcastle away last season) and see how many chances Kuyt missed that should have gone in. A quality striker doesn't miss easy chances ( rarely, when having a bad day) and unfortunately kuyt does.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:48 pm

The problem with Kuyt is that he cost more than 9 million pounds..... He is not worth 9 million.

He is just an average player with average technique (average pace, average heading ability, average 1st touch, average dribbling skills)...

Rafa paid over the odds for him like he did with babel (but that is for another thread.....another time).

But Kuyt is our most potent striker in the penalty box... He is quite clinical if he just stays longer in the opposition penalty box..than running like a headless chicken....(but that isn't saying much given that his competiton for the most clinical strikers are crouch, voronin and torres)....

by **maximus** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:54 pm

Ciggy wrote:I blame Rafa for Kuyt's lack of goal scoring opportunities TBH, he is an out and out striker not a link up man, Michael Owen would fail to score if he played in Kuyts position aswell thats probably the reason he didnt want to come back here.

Forrest Gump well even Tom Hanks ran faster in that one.

Agreed, the guy was scoring for fun in Holland (albeit and inferior league) but then again so was horseface and guess what red nose used him as.................you guessed it an out and out striker, the rest as they say was history

by **Avi Cohen** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:04 pm

I'm a big fan of Dirk's but I'm starting to lose patience. His control is terrible for a professional footballer. Rafa is playing him as a link up man, but whether you're an out and out striker or a link-up man, you're a striker first and foremost and the team depends on you to score goals. That is why you're up front. End of.

I still prefer him to Crouch and Voronin, however. When Crouch plays we become more one dimensional and transform into Long Ball United. Jury is still out on Voronin. Time will tell.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:33 pm

maximus wrote:Agreed, the guy was scoring for fun in Holland (albeit and inferior league) but then again so was horseface and guess what red nose used him as.................you guessed it an out and out striker, the rest as they say was history

True Max.

Rafa should stop playing Kuyt in the midfield, when he stops doing that Kuyt will get you goals.

Fair play to the lad he has been played out of his best position since he has arrived and never once moaned about it.

But I am

by **mattylfc** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:27 pm

I was thinking a similar thing about Kuyt the other day, he quite regularly runs his socks off and puts in a decent performance in one game and then struggles a bit in the next. This happened quite a few times last season and happened again recently with the Porto game, followed by birmingham.

This is understandable if the lad is tired but it does make me wonder why rotation only seems relevant to certain players. Rafa seems to allow certain players to play 90mins twice in one week but then seems to wrap our most important players in cotton wool by resting them regularly.

A few people have touched on the point on a couple of occasions and i am in agreement that in the PL we should keep a spine of the team just as we did in the first couple of games. For me, Reina, JC, Gerrard and Torres should all start. If they are tired, run them into the ground and replace them when the game is won. Certain players (mainly defense) can be changed from game to game and have little effect on the team but attacking wise, there should surely be less change in order to gain momentum and keep fluidity within the team.

Going back to Kuyt, im a big fan of the guys workrate, team play and technical ability but i am not sure he will ever be a big goalscorer for us. I think when he plays, he needs to have the likes of Torres playing with him, holding a high line. If not, we often play too deep and have no-one to get on the end of crosses etc.

I think our best strike partnership prob is Kuyt and Torres but i would agree with Big Mick who suggested that we should try Torres and Crouch together for a couple of games.

by **AB's Red Army** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:28 pm

Ciggy wrote:I blame Rafa for Kuyt's lack of goal scoring opportunities TBH, he is an out and out striker not a link up man, Michael Owen would fail to score if he played in Kuyts position aswell thats probably the reason he didnt want to come back here.

Forrest Gump well even Tom Hanks ran faster in that one.

So you blame Rafa for Dirk's inconsistent first touch as well?

It's time for some rotation

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:38 pm

mattylfc wrote:I was thinking a similar thing about Kuyt the other day, he quite regularly runs his socks off and puts in a decent performance in one game and then struggles a bit in the next. This happened quite a few times last season and happened again recently with the Porto game, followed by birmingham.

This is understandable if the lad is tired but it does make me wonder why rotation only seems relevant to certain players. Rafa seems to allow certain players to play 90mins twice in one week but then seems to wrap our most important players in cotton wool by resting them regularly.

A few people have touched on the point on a couple of occasions and i am in agreement that in the PL we should keep a spine of the team just as we did in the first couple of games. For me, Reina, JC, Gerrard and Torres should all start. If they are tired, run them into the ground and replace them when the game is won. Certain players (mainly defense) can be changed from game to game and have little effect on the team but attacking wise, there should surely be less change in order to gain momentum and keep fluidity within the team.

Going back to Kuyt, im a big fan of the guys workrate, team play and technical ability but i am not sure he will ever be a big goalscorer for us. I think when he plays, he needs to have the likes of Torres playing with him, holding a high line. If not, we often play too deep and have no-one to get on the end of crosses etc.

I think our best strike partnership prob is Kuyt and Torres but i would agree with Big Mick who suggested that we should try Torres and Crouch together for a couple of games.

A good post mate and totally agree about the spine of the team for the league games.
Its no coincidence that 2 seasons ago when we amassed our highest points total under Rafa we went through a period of about 10-11 games with almost the same side.
Like you have said the major players should start every league game if they are not injured. that for me would mean starting

Reina
Carragher
Agger
Gerrard
Torres

The reason i included Agger is because i just think it helps the organisation to have a settled centre back pairing week in week out.

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