Time to take stock. - Calm down everyone ffs.

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:36 am

ivor_the_injun wrote:Some good points Peewee, but a manager can only do so much.

Rafa could send a team out with the best tactics in the world, but if the players can't string passes together between one another, I can't help but think some of this anger and blame is misplaced.

Players throughout the team are underperforming. That's the crux of the problem.

I am absolutely adamant that the team Rafa put out could and should have been good enough to beat Birmingham. Let's face it, Babel and Voronin aside it's much the same group of players that started for us in the majority of games towards the end of last season.

of course mate, i agree to a point that the players have to share some of the blame, its not really rafas fault that kuyt can not trap a ball or hit the target consistently, but then its rafas fault for playing him regularly when he isn't good enough, its rafas fault for playing babel out of position even though its not rafas fault when he mis controls the ball or runs down a blind alley.

so although the players do have take responsibility, we also have to remember that the players are playing under instructions as to tactics employed, they can't be responsible for tactics, only their own shortcomings about control or playing the wrong pass etc.

sadly every player can not do 100% of the things they do during a game correctly, just as rafa can not get it right 100% of the time.

but for me, if i put my hand in the fire and it burns i never do it again, i don't keep doing it for 3 years in the hope that one day it will stop burning, we learn from our mistakes mate and 3 years is a hell of a long time to still not realise that something that works elsewhere is not working here, its like wasting 3 years trying to fit a square peg in a round hole when most people would have given up and got a round peg and used that every time.

wow so many analogies    :D

i agree the team we put out should have been enough to beat both pompey and birmingham but sadly it wasn't good enough, we played a weakened team and paid the penalty and dropped 4 points.

i know people will say we are unbeaten and only conceded penalties blah blah blah but 38 draws a season means f*ck all at the end of the day, its 38 points.

there is a massive difference between 1 point and 3 and we shouldn't be settling for 1 as thats not  going to win us the title. i know we had an early start after the internationals etc and i am sure it must affect the players routine a little, but thats all the more reason to make sure we are at full strength for these games and not saying "oh well, we had an early start after an international so its ok"
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Postby eds » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:08 am

Well! Well! Well!

6 games into the season and some of us are already discussing whether Rafa should be shown the door, wonder how long it will take the "in Rafa we trust" brigade to start seeing his flaws? At this rate possibly never...............

At least some people are finally starting to see what I and Stu were "blaspheming" about last season? That Rafa maybe NOT good enough to win us the league? Surely winning La Liga twice with Valencia and getting us to two Champions League finals in 3 years is enough? Right? Well after this season's two pathetic performances against Pompey and the Brum, the answer of whether he can or can't is getting even more dubious by the minute.

I think everyone should put into perspective what is going on here. That doesn't just mean the anti-Rafa brigade but also the "everything is OK, calm down" brigade. Losing 4pts against 2 average sides IS NOT OK! How you can convince yourself is beyond belief!

We need to win these games. If the players aren't up to it, Rafa needs to sort them out. If he can't he needs to be sorted out. Basically we have lost a potential 7 point lead on the Scum, this is inexcuseable and some of the players, including our captain should be apologising for this.

As for the anti-Rafa brigade, please get a grip, sack a coach 6 games into the season, who the hell do u think we are?

Chelsea................... .
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Postby maguskwt » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:22 am

eds wrote:Well! Well! Well!

6 games into the season and some of us are already discussing whether Rafa should be shown the door, wonder how long it will take the "in Rafa we trust" brigade to start seeing his flaws? At this rate possibly never...............

At least some people are finally starting to see what I and Stu were "blaspheming" about last season? That Rafa maybe NOT good enough to win us the league? Surely winning La Liga twice with Valencia and getting us to two Champions League finals in 3 years is enough? Right? Well after this season's two pathetic performances against Pompey and the Brum, the answer of whether he can or can't is getting even more dubious by the minute.

I think everyone should put into perspective what is going on here. That doesn't just mean the anti-Rafa brigade but also the "everything is OK, calm down" brigade. Losing 4pts against 2 average sides IS NOT OK! How you can convince yourself is beyond belief!

We need to win these games. If the players aren't up to it, Rafa needs to sort them out. If he can't he needs to be sorted out. Basically we have lost a potential 7 point lead on the Scum, this is inexcuseable and some of the players, including our captain should be apologising for this.

As for the anti-Rafa brigade, please get a grip, sack a coach 6 games into the season, who the hell do u think we are?

Chelsea................... .

easier said than done...

and you're suppose to be the middle ground? somehow I don't think so...
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:11 am

i think he was quite balanced, he is also sensible enough to realise that everything is not ok, at least he isn't one of these "trust the boss" idiots, and he is prepared to say what he actually thinks rather than have some misguided belief that criticism makes you less of a fan
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:27 am

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"its ok, this should solve everything, its worked for the last 3 seasons"


:D
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Postby Judge » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:59 am

no win in 3. :(  i do feel we have the squad to win the league, but not being able to get a winning result against birmingham said to me that we will not win the league
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Postby whylongball? » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:27 am

Quality posts by Bigmick and Sabre as usual..and i agree with most points
anyway, just want to add my 2 cents..
The team selection was decent imho. I just felt that due to 1.a few changes in personnel and position like Vororin, Risse 2. international break 3. injury carried by SG 4.unjustified tactical decision by Rafa, the team just do not have cohesion and fluidity.
For 4, i want to elaborate...
As much as i like Kuyt for his attitude, he has fair share of games, not proved anything, and had a tough game midweek. He should be the one rested. When Crouch came on, i feel he created more danger than Kuyt for the whole game. Against opponents defending deep, Crouch is the obvious answer!
Babel, i try to reserve my comment till now, is not a winger. He would make a better striker than Kuyt but not a winger. Nothing was created from the LW for the whole game.
I'm frustrated as everyone but yeah its still early. I think the boss is smart enough to get it right, at least i hope so
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Postby Sabre » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:28 am

eds wrote:Well! Well! Well!

6 games into the season and some of us are already discussing whether Rafa should be shown the door, wonder how long it will take the "in Rafa we trust" brigade to start seeing his flaws? At this rate possibly never...............

The In Rafa I trust brigade doesn't change their mind every week, unlike the fickle brigade.

But this time I have precious quotes like this one of yours, so when we go through this bad patch, and the gloom and doom brigade dissapear, in order to explain what's fickle. Read it again, F I C K L E

Seriously though, this brigades thingy is going too far. We're Liverpool fans, and we shouldn't be battling too seriously about who's right or wrong.

S@int, I didn't congratulate the other poster for the personal comments, but for the football neutral position. I wanted to stress that with the footnote.
Last edited by Sabre on Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:30 am

oh sabre f*ck off with the 'fickle' sh*te, its old hat and we all know what fickle means and what it doesn't mean.

saying it as it is does not make someone fickle, how many times does this have to be gone over, by your reckoning rafa is fickle with his team selection, one week he plays torres, the next he doesnt. so is rafa fickle?
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:33 am

the fact remains that for the last 3 seasons we have not come close to winning the league last season we went backwards and the manager is doing the same things as last season.

common sense tells us already that it doesn't work, it hasn't worked the last 3 seasons and it wont work this season.

you want me to trust someone that doesn't learn from their mistakes, well sorry but i cant trust someone like that. the minute he learns what he has been doing wrong will be a great day for our club and will give us some chance to move forward
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Postby Ciggy » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:36 am

Some people cant get it into their thick skulls NO ONE IS SAYING RAFA OUT.
We are saying PLAY OUR BEST 11 EVERY WEEK IN THE PREM AND THAT INCLUDES TORRES
Not much to ask really is it?

But instead he tinkered with the squad trying to be a smart @rse when it was stupid, and uneccesary and underestimated the oppo once again.

There are no easy games in the prem not one ok maybe against Derby, but this is the toughest league in Europe and even shitty @rsed teams like Brum take points off you when you underestimate them.

Another thing what annoyed me his post match interview he said we where watching videos of them we knew they would defend with 10 men etc etc.

Err hello we are at home fuck Brum dont be looking at what they do, send the troops out to annilate all before them stop worrying about what others do and dont do.

Save that against our title rivals not the rest of the chasing pack.

Birminghams goalie said we where worried about Torres and Crouch so we had a big boost when we seen them on the bench. Says it all really.
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Postby Ciggy » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:38 am

:angry: Grrrrrrrrrrr its monday and I still havent calmed down  :angry:  :D
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

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Postby dawson99 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:47 am

we aer dropping stupid points due to wrong team selection and that will cost us teh premiership if it isnt sorted. simple as
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Postby Sabre » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:07 am

Ciggy wrote: :angry: Grrrrrrrrrrr its monday and I still havent calmed down  :angry:  :D

When I've read your new signature I couldn't help to laugh, in a good way.  :D

Peewee, the serious part is the one I highlighted in bold, I was trying to make a joke about the "camps" and "brigades" that we take it too seriously sometimes.

And no, Rafa is not fickle for doing that, he just is saving you the frustation of seeing Torres play too much! :D A draw game against Birmingham is bad enough. But a draw game with the classical bad day of Torres (you still haven't seen him enough) would really do Ciggy's head in!  :laugh:

*Seriously* Let's all chill down a bit.
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Postby dawson99 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:13 am

sabre, what are you on about?

saving the frustration of seeing torres play too much as if you are waiting for torres to fail?

bad eggs dude, bad eggs.

torres has shown what he can do, add some spice, stop the saleness, and we have been stale. Why would we not wanna see Torres play more. And why are you waiting for the classic bad day of toores when so far when hes played for us hes been nothing short of special. bit of sociedad biased perhaps?
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