PORTSMOUTH VS LIVERPOOL - build up

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:01 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Oh f*cking dear.

I shall explain this in the simplest terms possible:

It is ok to criticise a performance if it merits it. It is ok to praise a performance if it merits it.

It is NOT ok to change your mind every 2 minutes regarding something that has not changed. (I.E. Rafa's tactical nous.)

As Bad Bob has said - you can blame Rafa all you want, but it's not all his fault. (And now I'll add something:)

You lot keep bleating about him, and the day he leaves you'll be crying your f*cking eyes out.

Now accept that he's the best man for the job, and that players can have off days.

Numpties.

You’re correct, but each persons view on what needs praise and what needs criticism is different. You might believe that a point against Pompey away is a fantastic result and that was Rafa was correct with his team selection on the day. Other people will feel differently.

To me last week, was last week and this week is this week, so why place so much emphasis is placed on last week? To me with each passing match the slate is wiped clean. I thought the team played well against Derby and didn’t play well against Portsmouth, that’s my prerogative and my opinion. It’s not a fickle opinion to behold either.

Who says it’s not okay? You? If people want to praise the manager one week and slate him the next week, that’s their choice and they have a right to do so. I shall discuss with such people why they have formed such an opinion, as that’s what a discussion entails.

I haven’t blamed Rafa for anything, I felt he made a mistake with the team selection yesterday, which I am entitled to do so. It has no relevance to what I think of him as a manager.

Who is you lot? Are you placing people into a particular box? If and when Rafa leaves, it will be a sad day for the club, but the club moves on and out of curiosity what does this have to do with his team selection or approach to the Portsmouth match?

Where have I stated that Rafa isn’t the right man for Liverpool? Where have I suggested that players do not have off days? You seem to be a person who belongs in the Rafa can do no wrong camp.

I haven’t got a problem with this, you seem very loyal and supportive to Rafa, that’s pleasing to see, but you have to learn to accept other people’s opinions and views on certain issues.

Calling people numpties because they felt Rafa made a mistake is not an intelligent way of creating a peaceful and enjoyable discussion.

And neither is missing the point AGAIN!

How many times do I have to say this?

YOU CAN CRITICISE AND PRAISE PERFORMANCE AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE - THAT'S SIMPLY PASSING JUDGEMENT. IT'S WHEN YOU CHANGE YOUR OPINION OF AN INDIVIDUAL OR THEIR F*CKING METHODS REGULARLY THAT YOU BECOME FICKLE.

Jesus CHRIST!

You know what? I'll really put this in laymans terms so you can fully grasp what I am saying:

Here is an example of a NON-fickle person after the Derby game (a) and after the Portsmouth game (b):

(a): "What a performance! The team played really well, and Rafa got his tactics spot on."

(b): "That was sh*te. The team played well below par, and Rafa's tactics weren't very effective."

Here is a fickle f*cker:

(a): "Oh my GOD! We're f*cking unbeatable, Rafa is a GENIUS, his rotation is fabulous, and we're certs to win the league!!!!!"

(b): "What a load of sh*te! Rafa's an idiot and we'll never win the title until he stops tinkering."

Are we understanding yet? Do we all now grasp the difference between stating an opinion on a performance, and altering a belief?

It's not ME who defines the nuances of the English language, nor it's rules. It is just a fact that the above example is of a fickle (or hypocritical) person.

BTW Wil - I feel the need to point out that YOU quoted ME in the first instance, not the other way around, so quite how you think I was directing my comments at you personally is quite bizarre to say the least.
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:07 pm

The_Rock wrote:This won't be their year lynds..... Look at how they struggled without drogba yesterday. Imagine how will they cope without drogba, essien and kalou at the same time.

Our biggest challengers will be Arsenal and the luckiest team in the world Manure....

I think Chelsea miss Lampard more than any other player he always gets them out the sh.it.

Anyone know how many players will be off to the African nations from Arsenal? The whole team maybe :D
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

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REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:08 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
dawson99 wrote:rafa made a mistake yesterday but its too easy to say that after the event.

Not everybody was saying it after the event.

WoofWoof Sep 15th 12.47pm

Crouch & Voronin possibly our weakest combination up front . Unless Rafa changes it I think we'll be lucky to get a point out of this one .

:(

I see you have got hte hang of this excellent moderators tool, where we can change posts without it looking like we have.

Nice Swan.
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Postby Graeme Noble » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:08 pm

The Grudge wrote:Bad day but could have been worse...Fratton Park is notoriously hard for any team to go to and take all 3 points.They play with an organised confidence,defend well and their supporters are superb,a credit to Pompey!

In saying that..WHAT THE F.UCK WAS BENITEZ THINKING ABOUT??

Why rest Gerrard and Torres when they are obviously our 2 best and on form players?His arguement at the start of the game was that he thinks they are tired and need a rest...BULLSH.IT.
Regardless of playing for their countries during the week it is early days in the season and both players would have been more than able to play!

Last season we took 1 point from 6 over our 2 games with Pompey...How the hell can Raffa justify leaving out 2 such important players after that?Pompey have held their own aginst Arsenal,Chelsea and UTD this season on top of that.Surely our manager could take that into acoount and start his best 11!

No...its the usual arguement of 'I thought i picked a team good enough to win'
Well Raffa you were wrong....again!

So far this season we have been robbed of 2 points by a daft referee,today i feel our own manager robbed us of another 2 with incompetent decisions so early in the season.

Im disgusted to put it mildly....There is no sugar coating the fact that as great a manager Raffa can be at times today he got it wrong bigtime and must shoulder the blame for 2 points lost!

Excellent post.

I do think we will win the league but Torres and Gerrard are our two best attacking players and need to play almost every league game!!! Especially at tricky games at Fratton Park.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:09 pm

s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Wilhelmsson wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:And it's simple really that you've totally missed the point I was making.

You can praise and criticise - you just can't alter your opinion on something every week and get away with it without being called fickle.

Are we all understanding now?

It depends on what you are praising and criticising. If a team plays inconsistently each week, then is it fickle to praise the team for the good performances and then criticise the team for the bad results? IMO it is not, Rafa was praised last week by the majority because he was spot on with tactics, team sheet and approach.

This week it’s slightly different for reasons which have been discussed already.

Oh f*cking dear.

I shall explain this in the simplest terms possible:

It is ok to criticise a performance if it merits it. It is ok to praise a performance if it merits it.

It is NOT ok to change your mind every 2 minutes regarding something that has not changed. (I.E. Rafa's tactical nous.)

As Bad Bob has said - you can blame Rafa all you want, but it's not all his fault. (And now I'll add something:)

You lot keep bleating about him, and the day he leaves you'll be crying your f*cking eyes out.

Now accept that he's the best man for the job, and that players can have off days.

Numpties.

No one as far as I am aware is saying Rafa's not the best man for the job. All I am saying is he made a mistake with his team selection that was a major contributing factor in us dropping 2 points. Rafa is a great manager..... not perfect. Its a managers job to make hard decisions, some they get right some they get wrong. The good ones get more right than wrong, BUT they still make mistakes.

Bringing Carra back after injury, must have been a hard decision for Rafa which could have been disastrous, but he was proved right. Resting Torres while also resting Gerrard, Mascherano, Babel, Kuyt and Riise was in my opinion wrong. Whether it would have been any different if Torres and/or Gerrard had played from the start we will never know, but my opinion is we looked short of pace, drive, creativity and goal threat yesterday and maybe Torres and/or Gerrard could have supplied it.

Which is fine.

But you're not the one saying Rafa's a god one minute, and a complete buffoon the next, and it's THIS which is annoying me.

I have no roblem with the observations you have made. It's other people who f*ck me off.

I suppose it boils down to whether or not you feel that the team which faced Pompey yesterday was strong enough to win.
On account of the fact that not one of their players would have got in our side, I feel it was.
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:11 pm

I dont care if you think I am fickle Lando, but the boss got it wrong yesterday.
I only want the best for Liverpool and want us to win every single game.

I was angry yesterday throwing away two silly points.

Rafa is a great manager and I am happy he is our manager but he deserves to be critisied when he tinkers with the squad.
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Postby woof woof ! » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:12 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:It's not ME who defines the nuances of the English language, nor it's rules. It is just a fact that the above example is of a fickle (or hypocritical) person.

If you're not defining the nuances of the English language how come you're equating the word fickle with the word hypocritical ?

I can find no reference in the dictionary that links these words , perhaps your dictionary is thicker than mine ?
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:15 pm

Ciggy wrote:I dont care if you think I am fickle Lando, but the boss got it wrong yesterday.
I only want the best for Liverpool and want us to win every single game.

I was angry yesterday throwing away two silly points.

Rafa is a great manager and I am happy he is our manager but he deserves to be critisied when he tinkers with the squad.

But my point is that those sentiments are NOT fickle - you still think Rafa is "a great manager and I am happy he is our manager".

It's if you were saying that ^ one week, then saying he is sh*t and should go the next. (And so on and so forth.)

THAT is by definition an example of a fickle nature.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:20 pm

Lando, could you explain to me in detail exactly what you mean by fickle?, I am struggling to understand exactly what you mean.


























:D   :p
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:21 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:It's not ME who defines the nuances of the English language, nor it's rules. It is just a fact that the above example is of a fickle (or hypocritical) person.

If you're not defining the nuances of the English language how come you're equating the word fickle with the word hypocritical ?

I can find no reference in the dictionary that links these words , perhaps your dictionary is thicker than mine ?

If a person states one thing, then states something that contradicts their initial statement, then you could define them as a hypocrite.

"hypocrisy

noun
1. an expression (or expression of agreement) that is not supported by real conviction."

Would altering one's publicly stated opinions constantly (therefore lacking conviction) not indicate hypocrisy?
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:21 pm

I think the disection of the match and the discussion is going round in circles now.

Name call via PM please and add any further points on rotation to the thred about it down the page.
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