Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:14 pm

AB's Red Army wrote:
JBG wrote:The rumour mill has gone into complete overdrive, people are discussing this like its fact and making the most grievous accusations against people based on rumour, hearsay and innuendo.

Let the Portuguese police and judiciary do their job and attempt to get to the bottom of this, until then it might be best to keep mum, because if people are wrong in their theories and it turns out that there was another explanation to what happened, the rumours doing the rounds on this website and others would amount to the lowest form of slander imaginable.

It seems to me that many would like to see the McCanns responsible, given that they are doctors, fairly well off and are middle class.

If the McCanns are guilty let the courts decide it, not the know it alls on the internet.

I think people are outraged by the fact that they left their child unattended hundreds of yards away.

Perhaps if that wasn't the case, people wouldn't be so suspicious of them.

Yes the people is very angry always but where I leave I also see more and more careless parents, some of which are very angry now with the McCanns aswell. I had a little discussion with a mother that gets me quite angry for how she educates her son, kind of mother that she doesn't realise that having children brings sacrifices (would be long to enter into details). She was especially angry with this issue when talking about the Mccann.

I don't think that group of friends that left unattended their kids were just an issolated case, I'm afraid it's nothing more than the top of the iceberg when it comes to careless parents. Both in your country and mine :no

by **The Manhattan Project** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:25 pm

Could the parents have really done everything the cops believe they did within the time period that was available? DNA in itself isn't proof of murder. If Maddie's DNA was found in the hire car, it could be explained by something as trivial as them placing a towel perhaps that had her blood on it. Little kids are always getting scratches and scrapes so that could account for the blood. In fact when they were initially heading to Portugal, the home video footage they took showed Maddie stumbling over the aeroplane steps and falling over so maybe she was a child who was prone to being a little clumsy. The fact only she was taken when there were two smaller lighter and easier to carry kids in the same room suggests to me that she was specifically targeted by someone. No body has been discovered either which may rule out an impulse killer. I think Maddie was kidnapped and taken out of Portugal within a few hours. The cops supposedly bumbled around for hours after she was reported missing which leaves a window of opportunity for her to be taken abroad.

by **JBG** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:29 pm

I'm not an expert in Portuguese law but if what is what's reported in the papers is all what the prosecution has got then there will unlikely be a trial for lack of evidence.

The Portuguese will have to do better than DNA in the car, there's still no body and the DNA in the car is largely circumstantial.

I'm not saying the McCanns didn't do it - of course its possible, in Ireland we had a guy convicted recently for murdering his wife and he had previously gone on tv and radio pleading to the public to help find his wife's killer - but the Portguese will need to have something more substantial than what is reported to bring home a conviction.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:31 pm

What ever has happened to her we may never know and Im sorry to say I dont think she is still alive either.
She could be anywhere absolutly anywhere.

Such a shame what a lovely little thing aswell.

by **JBG** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:34 pm

My own personal gut feeling on it is that she was abducted and murdered within hours. People go missing the whole time and are never found, adults as well as minors, and unfortunately I suspect that for every murder/accidental death/manslaughter that is discovered, there's probably another one where the killer has been exact enough to cover his or her tracks perfectly.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:39 pm

Breaking news on BBC 24 Prosecutors ask the judge to make an emergency order for permission to seize evidence in Maddy dissapearance

Wonder what this can be?

by **Grimly Fiendish** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:16 am

Ciggy wrote:Breaking news on BBC 24 Prosecutors ask the judge to make an emergency order for permission to seize evidence in Maddy dissapearance

Wonder what this can be?

Well it won't be Cuddle Cat, Kate washed that when she heard that specialist dogs that could pinpoint the smell of specific corpes had been brought in :suspect:

by **Grimly Fiendish** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:25 am

JBG wrote:My own personal gut feeling on it is that she was abducted and murdered within hours. People go missing the whole time and are never found, adults as well as minors, and unfortunately I suspect that for every murder/accidental death/manslaughter that is discovered, there's probably another one where the killer has been exact enough to cover his or her tracks perfectly.

Fair enough but there isn't a single shred of evidence of abduction? The McCanns claimed the shutters were jemmied open, the Police and Mark Warner management said there ws no sign of forced entry, then McCanns said they left the door unlocked in case of fire....hmmmmm.....

What the Police are really puzzled by is why phone records show Kate McCann rang the Sky News telephone number before alerting Police to her daughters disappearance?
Strange? In fact it's.........Grimly Fiendish!

by **JBG** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:57 pm

Grimly Fiendish.

by **7_Kewell** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:54 pm

Grimly Fiendish wrote:
JBG wrote:My own personal gut feeling on it is that she was abducted and murdered within hours. People go missing the whole time and are never found, adults as well as minors, and unfortunately I suspect that for every murder/accidental death/manslaughter that is discovered, there's probably another one where the killer has been exact enough to cover his or her tracks perfectly.

Fair enough but there isn't a single shred of evidence of abduction? The McCanns claimed the shutters were jemmied open, the Police and Mark Warner management said there ws no sign of forced entry, then McCanns said they left the door unlocked in case of fire....hmmmmm.....

What the Police are really puzzled by is why phone records show Kate McCann rang the Sky News telephone number before alerting Police to her daughters disappearance?
Strange? In fact it's.........Grimly Fiendish!

by **Ciggy** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:09 pm

Grimly Fiendish wrote:Well it won't be Cuddle Cat, Kate washed that when she heard that specialist dogs that could pinpoint the smell of specific corpes had been brought in

Cuddle Cat is getting extradited as we speak :;):

Ive been really wrecking my brains since Maddy vanished and I cannot get my head around something thats really bugging me.

When your on holiday you only seem to want to know the time to go for something to eat, or at the end of the day to go back the room and get showered and ready for a night out or meal.

So then on to the abductor it would have had to been someone listening by the pool about their plans for the evening not just that evening every evening to know for sure no babysitter or babymoniter was in that room.

How could an abductor possibly know there was no baby monitor in that room or babysitter?

When a baby moniter is switched on you hear everything even your childs breathing goes to one light, when they wake up the full 5 lights go to red depending on what moniter you have but they all go to red, this is for the parents benefit that child is awake, coughing, sick, crying etc etc.

How on earth could an abductor know they didnt have one with them and one in the room?

Now back to my first point about time on holiday.
Picture it your all there having a meal and a good old drink 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes fly by.

Everyone talking having a great time (kids tucked up in bed)
I dont care what they say but there is no way on earth they all done routeen checks every 15 or 30 minutes.

What would be the point in going out? If you have to leave your seat every 30 minutes?
Isnt that a bit of a nuisance, so every time one of them stood up they said I am going to check on all the kids, someone comes back the next one leaves the table to check.

What about when someone wants the loo do they tell the whole table Im going for a wee?

Its been reported that the McCanns arrived around 8.45 and according to all the statements about the checking on the kids well there would have been no chance of an abductor coming into that room with all these adults checking.

So that leaves us 1 hour and 15 minutes that the McCanns where in that Tapas bar so can someone please explain to me how an abductor came into the room knew there was no baby moniter or babysitter or that the parents where there, and took Maddy ignored the twins whilst it was like Euston train station with all this checking going on.

This case is really getting to me maybe its seeing that gorgeus face of hers all the time on the news, and I worry about my own child being taken by a peadofile but somethings not right here and that child needs to be found.

by **Kharhaz** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:24 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Grimly Fiendish wrote:Well it won't be Cuddle Cat, Kate washed that when she heard that specialist dogs that could pinpoint the smell of specific corpes had been brought in

Cuddle Cat is getting extradited as we speak

Ive been really wrecking my brains since Maddy vanished and I cannot get my head around something thats really bugging me.

When your on holiday you only seem to want to know the time to go for something to eat, or at the end of the day to go back the room and get showered and ready for a night out or meal.

So then on to the abductor it would have had to been someone listening by the pool about their plans for the evening not just that evening every evening to know for sure no babysitter or babymoniter was in that room.

How could an abductor possibly know there was no baby monitor in that room or babysitter?

When a baby moniter is switched on you hear everything even your childs breathing goes to one light, when they wake up the full 5 lights go to red depending on what moniter you have but they all go to red, this is for the parents benefit that child is awake, coughing, sick, crying etc etc.

How on earth could an abductor know they didnt have one with them and one in the room?

Now back to my first point about time on holiday.
Picture it your all there having a meal and a good old drink 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes fly by.

Everyone talking having a great time (kids tucked up in bed)
I dont care what they say but there is no way on earth they all done routeen checks every 15 or 30 minutes.

What would be the point in going out? If you have to leave your seat every 30 minutes?
Isnt that a bit of a nuisance, so every time one of them stood up they said I am going to check on all the kids, someone comes back the next one leaves the table to check.

What about when someone wants the loo do they tell the whole table Im going for a wee?

Its been reported that the McCanns arrived around 8.45 and according to all the statements about the checking on the kids well there would have been no chance of an abductor coming into that room with all these adults checking.

So that leaves us 1 hour and 15 minutes that the McCanns where in that Tapas bar so can someone please explain to me how an abductor came into the room knew there was no baby moniter or babysitter or that the parents where there, and took Maddy ignored the twins whilst it was like Euston train station with all this checking going on.

This case is really getting to me maybe its seeing that gorgeus face of hers all the time on the news, and I worry about my own child being taken by a peadofile but somethings not right here and that child needs to be found.

The chances are they checked the in the first half an hour that the kids were ok and saw they was all asleep so locked the doors behind them thinking they were safe and quite simply lied about cheking on them every so often. They saw they was asleep so they could go on with there drinking. The next day, shes gone missing and they know themself that its irresponsible parenting and have to make themself look like they were concerned about there kids during the evening, when it looks increasingly likely that they didnt.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:28 am

The bottom line is that all these timelines in all the reports are based mainly on conjecture, and don't necessarily reflect the facts as established by the police. People are second guessing what happened based on "facts" that may actually be anything but.

There is clearly more to the case than the sensational snippets the papers are garnering from wherever. I told people from day one I thought the parents were involved in some way, and sadly I think there's a grim conclusion, with no body ever to be found, coming some time soon.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:35 am

ivor_the_injun wrote:The bottom line is that all these timelines in all the reports are based mainly on conjecture, and don't necessarily reflect the facts as established by the police.

No Igor they where established by the McCanns we checked every half hour.
Must have had a blast in the Tapas quiz going to check on the kids.
Why even bother going out.
I confess I am no angel I like a drink but my child is in tow on holiday right or wrong he is with me.
Since the day he was born I have never left him alone in my house or in a hotel on holiday.

But thats just me maybe other people prefer not to be bothered by their children.

by **JBG** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:45 pm

Ciggy wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:The bottom line is that all these timelines in all the reports are based mainly on conjecture, and don't necessarily reflect the facts as established by the police.

No Igor they where established by the McCanns we checked every half hour.
Must have had a blast in the Tapas quiz going to check on the kids.
Why even bother going out.
I confess I am no angel I like a drink but my child is in tow on holiday right or wrong he is with me.
Since the day he was born I have never left him alone in my house or in a hotel on holiday.

But thats just me maybe other people prefer not to be bothered by their children.

It really depends on the parents, Ciggs. Some parents would see no problem in leaving their kids on their own but, on the other hand, would never drink in front of their kids. I would often have been left on my own when I was young and theoretically I could have been abducted or murdered but I had great parents.

That said, if I was a parent (and I'm not, not yet anyway) I'd be reluctant to leave very small children on their own while on holiday although if it was a case of going down to the hotel bar for a quick drink while the kids were asleep I don't think it would be the end of the world provided that I didn't stay out all night and get hammered.

(BTW I'm in no shape or form casting any aspertions on you or your parenting, it all depends on the particular family.)

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