Liverpool FC Forum

by **isogulcakli** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:08 pm

Good luck for your football match tomorrow against Derby Country.I am from Turkey.My favorİte team is Besİktas.My second favorite team is Lİverpool.I am sorry for wrİtten things on your web site,they are grazy teen agers:(

by **isogulcakli** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:09 pm

Good luck for your football match tomorrow against Derby Country.I am from Turkey.My favorite team is Besiktas.My second favorite team is Liverpool.I am sorry for written things on your web site,they are grazy teen agers:(

by **LFC2007** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:04 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Now i've heard it all, a manager largely regarded as detached is now rotating to keep players happy...no chance

I think you've missed the boat on that one Redtrader.

Just because he rotates, it doesnt mean his man managment skills are tip top. Yes he may rotate to keep the players happy but that doesnt mean he's the arm around the shoulder type.

From what i have seen of Benitez actions he doesn't care what the players want, all he is seems to want is to win, and have players who have the right attitude and want to be at LFC.

Thats why he played SG on the right, regardless of where SG wanted, thats why he let Owen go, no begging 'please stay'.
Like SG has said he doesn't tell him well done, but rather 'that pass in the 89th minute was poor'. He seems so singleminded that i very much doubt he would play Crouch because he looks unhappy, rather i can hear him saying 'if you could put away those simple headers, you'd play more no?'

There's almost an assumption that the arm round the shoulder type of management constitutes successful man management.

It does not.

Rafa has his boundaries, he is very clear in what he wants.

by **AB's Red Army** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:56 pm

We should be worried now lads, Pako has left us.

LIVERPOOL Assistant Manager Pako Ayesteran is set to leave Anfield after a series of disagreements with manager Rafa Benitez.

The Anfield No. 2 is understood to have left club on immediate leave after matters between the two men came to a head yesterday afternoon.

It is understood tensions between the pair - who have been close colleagues for the last decade - have been brewing for several months.

Matters finally reached a critical point at the Melwood training ground yesterday when it's understood Ayesteran indicated he was longer interested in working for Liverpool.

It is understood he will officially leave the club shortly once administrative issues around his contract are resolved.

A series of disagreements are believed to have contributed to the break-up of the partnership.

Ayesteran has had full control over the training and preparation of the squad and there were alterations made during pre-season which led to the disagreements.

It is not believed Ayesteran has an alternative offer under consideration.

However, he was linked with Athletic Bilbao during the summer and Liverpool supporters will be hoping rumours of interest from Manchester United and Chelsea in Ayesteran's services are no more than speculation.

Benitez will now have to begin the process of replacing a man credited with much of the background work behind a successful rebuilding of Liverpool.

Ayesteran is know for his skills in technical and physical areas, including fitness techniques and sports science.

The back room staff which Benitez brought with him when he arrived from Valencia three years ago has now effectively broken up, with former coach Paco Herrera and goalkeeping coach Jose Ochotorena also recent departures for entirely different, amicable reasons.

-Liverpool Echo,

Sabre mentioned to me that he was worried regarding Pako's future several times over the last couple of months.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:45 pm

One thing about Crouchy is that, while he was in fine fettle at the start of last season, he's not the complete striker. As such, he can be a bit of liability in certain games, no matter how successfully he's managed to find the net in previous matches. When teams play a high line, for example, starting Crouch and Kuyt (last season) is not the best use of resources. Those are the games when you need to throw on a pace merchant like Bellamy.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:58 pm

There's almost an assumption that the arm round the shoulder type of management constitutes successful man management.

It does not.

And how the f.uck do you know ?

by **LFC2007** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:01 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
There's almost an assumption that the arm round the shoulder type of management constitutes successful man management.

It does not.

And how the f.uck do you know ?

Not taken your pills yet?

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:05 pm

Two different styles of managment probably both succesful in there own rights.

But you cannot sit there and say for sure the 'arm around the shoulder type' does not ensure succesful man managment. Mouriniho I'd say has proved that, think before you post hey.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:16 pm

Bamaga man wrote:Two different styles of managment probably both succesful in there own rights.

But you cannot sit there and say for sure the 'arm around the shoulder type' does not ensure succesful man managment. No it all ! Mouriniho I'd has proved that, think before you post hey.

Dear God,

I missed out the word 'necessarilly' and I get pounced upon.

I was clearly implying that the arm round the shoulder type of man management is not 'necessarily' successful, and nor is it the only approach that constitutes successful man management.

In context and not in isolation my comments are reasonable. If you want me to clarify it, then I will....

There is an assumption by many, and it is acutely indicative within your posts that the arm round the shoulder type of approach is the only successful way to man manage. Why do I say this? In previous threads you have used Rafa's apparently 'detached' nature as an example of his man management skills being inferior to those of Jose Mourinho.

In my view, there are many similarities between Rafa and Jose in terms of man management. They both establish firm professional boundaries, and they both apply praise to their players when necessary.

I guess thinking before a post would apply to your heavenly wit: 'And how the f.uck would you know?' ?

I think so.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:39 pm

Dear God,

I missed out the word 'necessarilly' and I get pounced upon.

Coming from someone who is SO anal and pedantic in there posts, it is a necessaty that you write what you mean with absolute clarity. But anyway I'm sure you did not miss the word out, you probably believed you were so sure and right, that you stated it as a FACT :laugh:

Two different styles of managment probably both succesful in there own rights.

I wrote this, then you went on to say ...

There is an assumption by many, and it is acutely indicative within your posts that the arm round the shoulder type of approach is the only successful way to man manage. Why do I say this? In previous threads you have used Rafa's apparently 'detached' nature as an example of his man management skills being inferior to those of Jose Mourinho.

I have never said its the 'ONLY' way to be succesful with man managment, though I personally feel having a manager who is more "detached" from his players can hinder harmony amongst the squad and players at times. Like I said some players need to feel wanted, reasuared etc, and some managers have it in them to do this.

But having boundries to is also good as players should know where they stand in terms of what the manager requires, both can be used I think in conjunction with eachother well.

We've gone off topic from rotation, but when you have a squad full of quality in it like we have I wouldnt think its solely rotation that would keep the players happy, but the man managment too, and depending on the way its handled it could help to be a more positive approach to the players mind, or the opposite.

Some players, who I've only been able to see from "Timbukutu" like Alonso, Crouch and Momo certainly appear unhappy at times in there dermina (SP?). This was the case I feel for Xabi last season his body language to me sounded out a player who wasnt his usual self, and also there was murmurs of him leaving in the summer so I certainly do think there is any smoke without fire. As he didnt look as happy when playing his football at times as Mascha got the nod over him in some bigger games. Likewise with Crouch this season so .......

by **LFC2007** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:18 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Dear God,

I missed out the word 'necessarilly' and I get pounced upon.

Coming from someone who is SO anal and pedantic in there posts, it is a necessaty that you write what you mean with absolute clarity. And I'm sure you did, I dont think you "missed" the word out, you probably believed you were so sure and right, that you stated it as a FACT

Two different styles of managment probably both succesful in there own rights.

I wrote this, then you went on to say ...

There is an assumption by many, and it is acutely indicative within your posts that the arm round the shoulder type of approach is the only successful way to man manage. Why do I say this? In previous threads you have used Rafa's apparently 'detached' nature as an example of his man management skills being inferior to those of Jose Mourinho.

I have never said its the 'ONLY' way to be succesful with man managment, though I personally feel having a manager who is more "detached" from his players can hinder harmony amongst the squad and players at times. Like I said some players need to feel wanted, reasuared etc, and some managers have it in them to do this.

But having boundries to is also good as players should know where they stand in terms of what the manager requires, both can be used I think in conjunction with eachother well.

We've gone off topic from rotation, but when you have a squad full of quality in it like we have I wouldnt think its solely rotation that would keep the players happy, but the man managment too, and depending on the way its handled it could help to be a more positive approach to the players mind, or the opposite.

Some players, who I've only been able to see from "Timbukutu" like Alonso, Crouch and Momo certainly appear unhappy at times in there dermina (SP?). This was the case I feel for Xabi last season, as he didnt look as happy when playing his football as Mascha got the nod over him in some bigger games. Likewise with Crouch this season so ...

Clearly you are looking for a feud in order to satisfy yourself.

I'm not interested in satisfying your bitter needs, I am interested in football.

I must however point out that the correct grammar is 'their posts' and not 'there posts' as you chose to write - as in 'look there is a numpty'. Also, necessity is not spelt 'necessaty'. Whilst 'Dermina' is also incorrect and sounds rather like a skin cream, 'Demeanour' would be correct.

Anyhow, they are just a few pointers that you may one day thank me for - it may just make the difference when you begin applying for jobs.

As for the footballing content of your post.

In previous threads you have said that Rafa does not appear to have the ability that Mourinho has when it comes to making every squad member feel valued.You then suggest that because Rafa does not appear to possess this, it becomes a potential hindrance to squad harmony.

You also imply that the 'arm round the shoulder type' constitutes successful man management.

I dispute a) that Rafa is not an 'arm round the shoulder type' and b) that being 'apparently' detached hinders squad harmony.

I would cite Sir Alex the rednose as a manager who appears to be detached from his players, yet many consider this an asset and not a hinderance. Some will argue that he has lost valuable players for taking this approach. I don't see it that way, I see it as astute decision making e.g. Stam & Van Nistelrooy being sold. However, rednose will also praise his players, just like Rafa does, and just as Mourinho does. Whatever you want to define 'the arm round the shoulder type' as depends solely on your own perceptions. One attribute they all share is the setting of boundaries, discipline and focus.

Essentially, it's all down to perception. When you say Alonso appeared unhappy towards the end of last season, I would suggest that is what would be expected of a player who is not playing as much as he would like. I would also say that this is not necessarily Rafa's fault, if indeed he did feel unhappy, maybe he was frustrated with his own game. Since the body language approach is subjective you have to go by what the players say through the media. There was nothing really to suggest Alonso was unhappy in this respect, he wanted to sign a new contract and he did - gladly.

Night.

:hearts

by **Sabre** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:35 am

Essentially, it's all down to perception. When you say Alonso appeared unhappy towards the end of last season, I would suggest that is what would be expected of a player who is not playing as much as he would like

Or is angry with himself as he's not happy with his game, or he's in that mood because he's being playing badly, or is unfocused because he's renewing his contract, or he didn't have a great night with the missus the night before. How could we know? we can't, it's indeed a matter of perception.

And where as we can discuss about matches, tactics, what players we need, etc, because we watch games, we cannot talk too much about what's the correct approach and what's the way things work inside Melwood. We simply don't know enough to have a decent opinion. Maybe Manhattan sources have enough info, but not the rest of us.

It's true however that Rafa sends praises but avoids to appear too warm. He seems to praise the players that need it most, and he seems to avoid the praises to the most important team members. A bit, like in this quotes of today (from the official site)

Anyone who's been to Anfield this season will have heard the Kop's boast that "we've got the best midfield in the world".
Rafa Benitez certainly hasn't missed it, and while the Spaniard is always appreciative of the faithful's inventiveness, he's a little reticent when it comes to their latest effort.

He'd prefer the chant be amended to include the word 'potentially'.

"What's important is to keep all the players on their toes, and at the moment we have this situation," said Benitez.

"It looks to me we have players with the right attitude and this has been shown so far, but we must always remember there is a lot of hard work to come.

"What matters as a manager is what the players show on the pitch; not if people are saying how good we are.

"I'm not worried if people say one midfield is the best, I'm more concerned on playing to our level every week.

"We're happy that at this moment we are playing well using different players.

"Okay, the opposition on Tuesday was not the strongest, but we saw how well Benayoun played coming into the team – he is a very clever player – and others have shown their quality.

"We don't have many out-and-out wingers in the squad, but players like Benayoun and Babel are showing they can make that position work for the team.

"Everyone has the right idea what they should be doing."

Meanwhile, Benitez has expressed disappointment at news midfielder Javier Mascherano is likely to be unavailable for the visit to Portsmouth in two weeks' time because of jet-lag.

The 23-year-old is likely to feature for Argentina in Australia four days earlier.

"It's one thing to lose a player to an international team, but another to see him go all the away around the world to play a friendly," said the Liverpool boss.

"It's crazy. The majority of the top South American players are now based in Europe.

"We can't say no as a club and stop our player going to the game, but it's going to make it very difficult for him to play in our game after this.

"To have only three or four days to prepare is going to be hard.

"I don't know how much a game like this is really about football, or how much it's more about making money."

-----------

Praises for the players that still haven't too many games in the pocket, and asking more to the most praised ones (the midfielders). That's why maybe Gerrard is still waiting for a "well done", because he is actually the best. Is it the best approach? the titles and the key players wanting to stay will say if this approach is good.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:59 am

Is it the best approach? the titles and the key players wanting to stay say that.

I think the important thing is that the players respect and want to play for a manager, not whether he's warm and friendly or cold and detached. There have been just as many successful arm round the shoulder type managers as there are cold and detached.

I think a manager should be himself, not try and be something he isn't. I do feel that sometimes it can lead to problems when a manager doesn't treat players as individuals though(some need an arm round the shoulder and some just need a kick up the backside), as we found out with Gerrard and his " feeling unwanted " misunderstanding.

Two different styles of managment probably both succesful in there own rights

I agree Bamaga.

I missed out the word 'necessarilly' and I get pounced upon.

Why call other peoples spelling especially when your spelling is not necessarily perfect

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:35 am

Why call other peoples spelling especially when your spelling is not necessarily perfect

Because he is a self opinionated w@nker Saint, and would much prefer to correct peoples spelling, and be a condecending tw@t at the same time, than talk football as he feels he's obviously better at that.

:nod

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:58 am

s@int wrote:
I missed out the word 'necessarilly' and I get pounced upon.

Why call other peoples spelling especially when your spelling is not necessarily perfect

lol... now it seems like i have to type my post in microsoft word first and do a spell check before i copy and paste here...

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