Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:25 am

I cant see the Heinze deal happening. Utd seem pretty confident that legally they are under no obligation to sell to Liverpool.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:32 am

Emerald Red wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Worst case scenario is that he sits tight until January, then buys himself out of his own contract.

We have the scum by the goolies and they know it.

Worst case scenario is we buy him at all. Not good enough for United means he's not good enough for Liverpool.

Wouldn't be the first time Fergie has wanted rid of one of his better players. Rudd, Beckham and Stam ring a bell? Were they not good enough either?

If you're going to get 23 million for Beckham you would snap their hand off because the fella isn't up to that level. Van Nistlerooy wanted to leave and they had a replacement in Saha, no where near as good Van Nistlerooy but again money talks and 17 million for him was a good deal, since he was the wrong side of 30. Again for Stam, money talked. 15/16 million for a centre half is pretty good going, United aren't going to turn down that when they know if they didn't take it they would of ended up selling him for 4/5 million a few years later. Just like Arsenal have had to do with Henry, 16 million for a world class player. So Fergie has allowed his world stars to go for big money, do you think he'd allow, what you lot seem to class as a "world star" for 6 million? If Fergie rates him as highly as you lot seem to, he's not going to let him for anything under 10 million.

No harm, but that's a complete load of rubbish. I know I personally don't rate Beckham as a great player, but his crossing combined with Van Nistelrooy getting on the end was priceless. Add that to the fact that Beckham was making United untold amounts in revenue through his brand name, and you have a player that you just couldn't afford to loose no matter what. Ferguson made a blunder, plane and simple. It took him almost 4 years to recover his losses. United lost their momentum in the league, and they only got that back when Ronaldo hit form for them in the area that they lost out on - down the right in Beckham's possition.

United lost their way, not solely because Beckham was sold, I agree that was party to do with it, but that wasn't the only reason. United didn't have to worry about Beckham's revenue because he had got the name Manchester United spread around the world, so they could afford to let him go. Also with the sales of Beckham/Stam, United could go and build for the future, i.e. Ronaldo and Rooney. Fergie was prepared to let his stars go, so he could build his next generation that would dominante football. Do you think he'll let his superstars go at this point? Heinze he's prepared to sell, just not to Liverpool, because he's too old for a Fergie side. The likes of Giggs/Scholes/Neville, he won't let go because it's loyalty and plus they are still great players. In 3/4 years Fergie will allow Ferdinand/Carrick and Saha to move on because they'll all be around 30. Fergie plays with a youthful side and that's why he's prepared to allow his elder players to move on. Bryan Robson, when he hits a certain age, no longder required. Bruce/Irwin/Pallister/Cole/Yorke, the list goes on. Fergie isn't prepared to allow players to stay at the club past their sell by date. He cashes in on them when he can. That's why he's looking for Heinze to leave but because the only club Heinze wants to join is Liverpool, he's saying he wants Heinze to stay. Fergie knows if he keeps Heinze for another year or two he won't get 4 million for him. He knows this is the best chance to sell him but won't sell him to us.

by **red37** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:40 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
red37 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Worst case scenario is that he sits tight until January, then buys himself out of his own contract.

We have the scum by the goolies and they know it.

Worst case scenario is we buy him at all. Not good enough for United means he's not good enough for Liverpool.

I have tried to ignore you cus I am sure you are a WUM but you are really getting on my ti.ts now.

How can he be not good enough ?

Argentine 1st choice defender, Rafa rates him and Ferguson is seeing his @rse totalyl cus he knows full well he is a top quality player and he will without doubt strangthen our team.

So Rafa, Fergie and the Argentina coach are ALL WRONG ?

Get a clue lad.

Well yeah they can all be wrong pal. I'll give you a clue by the name of Jaun Sebsatian Veron. Aregetina regluar, United went out and bought him and Benitez wanted him during his time at Valencia. So yeah people can be wrong.

The reason he's not good enough for Liverpool is because he is sh!t. I wouldn't swap Riise for him and he certainly wouldn't get ahead of Agger/Carra at centre half. Hyypia can cover for those 2 and we have more than enough options at left back if Riise is out. He's going to be the wrong side of 30 within the next 2 years, so lets go out and buy a fella who is a waste of space, good on you pal.

Jamie Carragher will be the 'wrong' side of 30 in six months...as a comparison. Finnan already is. No slouches between that pair.
Heinze is more than welcome at Liverpool for mine. Pushing 7 mill is a tad on the steep side, i admit. But he would add some much needed steel at LB, and is good for a few full competitive seasons yet imo.

Carra and Finnan may be hitting the wrong side of 30 but they started their Liverpool careers well before that age. 6 million for a 2 year player isn't value for money. We could easily spend that a young talented left back who could replace Riise and we have them for a good 6/7 years like we did with Sami/Finnan. I have no problem siging a young lad for that money, but for a player who will be lucky to get in the side in 2 years, I'm not convinced.

One final point, Heinze is nowhere near the class of Carragher.

On the whole I wouldn't dispute it...

But who else is there that may be available, that would provide similar quality in our defence, now...that is better than Heinze? (whether the transfer actually happens or not). Im struggling to think of many at all.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:01 am

red37 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
red37 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Worst case scenario is that he sits tight until January, then buys himself out of his own contract.

We have the scum by the goolies and they know it.

Worst case scenario is we buy him at all. Not good enough for United means he's not good enough for Liverpool.

I have tried to ignore you cus I am sure you are a WUM but you are really getting on my ti.ts now.

How can he be not good enough ?

Argentine 1st choice defender, Rafa rates him and Ferguson is seeing his @rse totalyl cus he knows full well he is a top quality player and he will without doubt strangthen our team.

So Rafa, Fergie and the Argentina coach are ALL WRONG ?

Get a clue lad.

Well yeah they can all be wrong pal. I'll give you a clue by the name of Jaun Sebsatian Veron. Aregetina regluar, United went out and bought him and Benitez wanted him during his time at Valencia. So yeah people can be wrong.

The reason he's not good enough for Liverpool is because he is sh!t. I wouldn't swap Riise for him and he certainly wouldn't get ahead of Agger/Carra at centre half. Hyypia can cover for those 2 and we have more than enough options at left back if Riise is out. He's going to be the wrong side of 30 within the next 2 years, so lets go out and buy a fella who is a waste of space, good on you pal.

Jamie Carragher will be the 'wrong' side of 30 in six months...as a comparison. Finnan already is. No slouches between that pair.
Heinze is more than welcome at Liverpool for mine. Pushing 7 mill is a tad on the steep side, i admit. But he would add some much needed steel at LB, and is good for a few full competitive seasons yet imo.

Carra and Finnan may be hitting the wrong side of 30 but they started their Liverpool careers well before that age. 6 million for a 2 year player isn't value for money. We could easily spend that a young talented left back who could replace Riise and we have them for a good 6/7 years like we did with Sami/Finnan. I have no problem siging a young lad for that money, but for a player who will be lucky to get in the side in 2 years, I'm not convinced.

One final point, Heinze is nowhere near the class of Carragher.

On the whole I wouldn't dispute it...

But who else is there that may be available, that would provide similar quality in our defence, now...that is better than Heinze? (whether the transfer actually happens or not). Im struggling to think of many at all.

I like the look of Baines, good young talented English lad, possibly England's next left back. Matty Taylor I'm a huge fan of and finally an unrealistic target is Gael Clichy. Doubt we'd get him and certainly not for 6 mill, but would be a great addition to the squad. Also if I had it my way I'd bring Stephen Warnock back, I thought he was a bloody good left back and never given a fair crack of the whip IMO. If Heinze is coming as a centre half then I think, Steven Taylor/Micah Richards or Michael Dawson could be a better signing.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:40 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I like the look of Baines, good young talented English lad, possibly England's next left back. Matty Taylor I'm a huge fan of and finally an unrealistic target is Gael Clichy. Doubt we'd get him and certainly not for 6 mill, but would be a great addition to the squad. Also if I had it my way I'd bring Stephen Warnock back, I thought he was a bloody good left back and never given a fair crack of the whip IMO. If Heinze is coming as a centre half then I think, Steven Taylor/Micah Richards or Michael Dawson could be a better signing.

Baines at 6 million i agree looks like a good signing. Taylor is nowhere near good enough imo, he is just someone that stands out due to having a good long shot. Arsenal arent going to sell there first choice left back or if they did it would be for a lot more than 6 million.
The centre halves you mentioned are all decent players but again would all cost far too much money.

But the major thing you are forgetting in all of this is the versatility of Heinze, he is able to play centre half AND left back, none of the other players you mentioned can be used in both of the areas that our squad currently requires cover in.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:53 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

I like the look of Baines, good young talented English lad, possibly England's next left back. Matty Taylor I'm a huge fan of and finally an unrealistic target is Gael Clichy. Doubt we'd get him and certainly not for 6 mill, but would be a great addition to the squad. Also if I had it my way I'd bring Stephen Warnock back, I thought he was a bloody good left back and never given a fair crack of the whip IMO. If Heinze is coming as a centre half then I think, Steven Taylor/Micah Richards or Michael Dawson could be a better signing.[/quote]
for once, GBJH i agree with you bout warnock. but while ur at it....heinze is much better then warnock in almost every department.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:36 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I like the look of Baines, good young talented English lad, possibly England's next left back. Matty Taylor I'm a huge fan of and finally an unrealistic target is Gael Clichy. Doubt we'd get him and certainly not for 6 mill, but would be a great addition to the squad. Also if I had it my way I'd bring Stephen Warnock back, I thought he was a bloody good left back and never given a fair crack of the whip IMO. If Heinze is coming as a centre half then I think, Steven Taylor/Micah Richards or Michael Dawson could be a better signing.

Baines at 6 million i agree looks like a good signing. Taylor is nowhere near good enough imo, he is just someone that stands out due to having a good long shot. Arsenal arent going to sell there first choice left back or if they did it would be for a lot more than 6 million.
The centre halves you mentioned are all decent players but again would all cost far too much money.

But the major thing you are forgetting in all of this is the versatility of Heinze, he is able to play centre half AND left back, none of the other players you mentioned can be used in both of the areas that our squad currently requires cover in.

Unfortunately you're right that the centre halves I've mentioned are too expensive and you're right that nobody I've mentioned can play both positions, like Heinze can, but I think a centre half should be a bigger priority than a left back, we have enough cover for Riise, and I think Heinze would only be signed as cover for Riise.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:48 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I like the look of Baines, good young talented English lad, possibly England's next left back. Matty Taylor I'm a huge fan of and finally an unrealistic target is Gael Clichy. Doubt we'd get him and certainly not for 6 mill, but would be a great addition to the squad. Also if I had it my way I'd bring Stephen Warnock back, I thought he was a bloody good left back and never given a fair crack of the whip IMO. If Heinze is coming as a centre half then I think, Steven Taylor/Micah Richards or Michael Dawson could be a better signing.

Baines at 6 million i agree looks like a good signing. Taylor is nowhere near good enough imo, he is just someone that stands out due to having a good long shot. Arsenal arent going to sell there first choice left back or if they did it would be for a lot more than 6 million.
The centre halves you mentioned are all decent players but again would all cost far too much money.

But the major thing you are forgetting in all of this is the versatility of Heinze, he is able to play centre half AND left back, none of the other players you mentioned can be used in both of the areas that our squad currently requires cover in.

Unfortunately you're right that the centre halves I've mentioned are too expensive and you're right that nobody I've mentioned can play both positions, like Heinze can, but I think a centre half should be a bigger priority than a left back, we have enough cover for Riise, and I think Heinze would only be signed as cover for Riise.

Don't be silly.

Heinze is a much better leftback than Riise will ever be.

by **RedBlood** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:56 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I like the look of Baines, good young talented English lad, possibly England's next left back. Matty Taylor I'm a huge fan of and finally an unrealistic target is Gael Clichy. Doubt we'd get him and certainly not for 6 mill, but would be a great addition to the squad. Also if I had it my way I'd bring Stephen Warnock back, I thought he was a bloody good left back and never given a fair crack of the whip IMO. If Heinze is coming as a centre half then I think, Steven Taylor/Micah Richards or Michael Dawson could be a better signing.

Baines at 6 million i agree looks like a good signing. Taylor is nowhere near good enough imo, he is just someone that stands out due to having a good long shot. Arsenal arent going to sell there first choice left back or if they did it would be for a lot more than 6 million.
The centre halves you mentioned are all decent players but again would all cost far too much money.

But the major thing you are forgetting in all of this is the versatility of Heinze, he is able to play centre half AND left back, none of the other players you mentioned can be used in both of the areas that our squad currently requires cover in.

Unfortunately you're right that the centre halves I've mentioned are too expensive and you're right that nobody I've mentioned can play both positions, like Heinze can, but I think a centre half should be a bigger priority than a left back, we have enough cover for Riise, and I think Heinze would only be signed as cover for Riise.

heinze woul be signed as first choice leftback and cover for agger n carra in the middle

he is a far better player then jar

by **Wilhelmsson** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Don't be silly.

Heinze is a much better leftback than Riise will ever be.

Riise isn’t a LB, he’s a LWB.

What I am finding difficult to accept is how certain people can say Heinze is not good enough to play for Liverpool. Heinze might have had a serious injury which has had repercussions on his football, but he is certainly a player who could walk into most top European sides.

Its shame he is MU tainted, otherwise, I’d take him for the £6m.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:04 pm

puroresu wrote:I cant see the Heinze deal happening. Utd seem pretty confident that legally they are under no obligation to sell to Liverpool.

It’s a tough issue, MU doesn’t have to sell the player or sell their player to a club whom they wish not to. However from what I have read, Heinze is entitled to leave for a club who bids the asking price of £6m.

If this is true, then MU has no choice but to allow Heinze and his agent to hold talks with any club(s) who bid the full asking price.

Are there any updates on this situation or is Heinze still on holiday?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:06 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Don't be silly.

Heinze is a much better leftback than Riise will ever be.

Riise isn’t a LB, he’s a LWB.

What I am finding difficult to accept is how certain people can say Heinze is not good enough to play for Liverpool. Heinze might have had a serious injury which has had repercussions on his football, but he is certainly a player who could walk into most top European sides.

Its shame he is MU tainted, otherwise, I’d take him for the £6m.

Yes, he IS a LWB by trade, but that is irrelevant to this discussion - JAR plays at leftback (or Left midfield) for this club.

I'm simply stating that in a straight contest for the leftback slot, Riise would lose out royally to Heinze.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:17 pm

You are correct.

I’m not sure why LB has become an issue, Riise has been LB during the unbeaten runs and the defence is one of the most miserly defences in the league, only second to Chelsea.

I’d much rather Rafa spent money on signing a RW with a higher level of confidence and a higher level of ability/intelligence.

by **Dundalk** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:18 pm

by **Leonmc0708** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:54 pm

Dundalk wrote:

The old ones are always the oldest . . .

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Heinze anyone? - move to liverpool turned down

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