Personally I think that Rafa blows it in the league by his obsession with rotation. I read him talking about the strikers we have and he said that they all have different strengths and will suit different games so it sounds like another season of rotation.
Ferguson and Mourinho stick to the same strikers nearly every game and I think Benitez will blow the league by September again if we don't have a settled team.
I HATE rotation and think it is plain 100% stupid.
I know many here believe in "trust Rafa" etc but personally I prefer to think for myself.
Who is in favour of rotation and who is against?
Rotation next season - Not again
by babu » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:30 pm
<cue bigmick's entrance>
I dunno really. it seems obvious to me. play your best team. but sometime's Rafa gives me the feeling he looks too long term, at the expense of the present.
I dunno really. it seems obvious to me. play your best team. but sometime's Rafa gives me the feeling he looks too long term, at the expense of the present.
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by Owzat » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:47 pm
Rotation is good and bad. However the manager can get it right if he doesn't rotate for the sake of it, rest players when needed.
GK - doesn't need rotating, may need resting now and again
CBs - don't need much rotating, they forge a partnership so best not to disrupt it
FBs - do a lot of work, but should cope with playing a few consecutive games. Best to rest when playing 'gimme' games
CMs - do a lot of work, but also work as a partnership so I'd rest when they need resting
WGs - do a lot of work, but all players need games to find form and being picked then left out then picked can't be helping
CFs - I'd say here rotation is useful, BUT a player won't hit form if they're on the bench every other game
Your best team will be dead on it's feet if it plays EVERY game, if you keep chopping and changing you will get inconsistency. To keep strikers in form have two on the pitch, two on the bench. Substitute for tactics and resting so they aren't overworked or underused. If Kuyt plays 70 mins for 3 games in a row, then he'll be able to find form and not play all the time. Put him on the bench for 3 games coming on for 20 mins and he won't be out of form or too tired having effectively played 3 x 90 mins.
GK - doesn't need rotating, may need resting now and again
CBs - don't need much rotating, they forge a partnership so best not to disrupt it
FBs - do a lot of work, but should cope with playing a few consecutive games. Best to rest when playing 'gimme' games
CMs - do a lot of work, but also work as a partnership so I'd rest when they need resting
WGs - do a lot of work, but all players need games to find form and being picked then left out then picked can't be helping
CFs - I'd say here rotation is useful, BUT a player won't hit form if they're on the bench every other game
Your best team will be dead on it's feet if it plays EVERY game, if you keep chopping and changing you will get inconsistency. To keep strikers in form have two on the pitch, two on the bench. Substitute for tactics and resting so they aren't overworked or underused. If Kuyt plays 70 mins for 3 games in a row, then he'll be able to find form and not play all the time. Put him on the bench for 3 games coming on for 20 mins and he won't be out of form or too tired having effectively played 3 x 90 mins.
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by Wilhelmsson » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:53 pm
Owzat wrote:Rotation is good and bad. However the manager can get it right if he doesn't rotate for the sake of it, rest players when needed.
GK - doesn't need rotating, may need resting now and again
CBs - don't need much rotating, they forge a partnership so best not to disrupt it
FBs - do a lot of work, but should cope with playing a few consecutive games. Best to rest when playing 'gimme' games
CMs - do a lot of work, but also work as a partnership so I'd rest when they need resting
WGs - do a lot of work, but all players need games to find form and being picked then left out then picked can't be helping
CFs - I'd say here rotation is useful, BUT a player won't hit form if they're on the bench every other game
Your best team will be dead on it's feet if it plays EVERY game, if you keep chopping and changing you will get inconsistency. To keep strikers in form have two on the pitch, two on the bench. Substitute for tactics and resting so they aren't overworked or underused. If Kuyt plays 70 mins for 3 games in a row, then he'll be able to find form and not play all the time. Put him on the bench for 3 games coming on for 20 mins and he won't be out of form or too tired having effectively played 3 x 90 mins.
You’re very accurate in what you say; I don’t disagree with a thing. IMO rotation is useful, if it’s used in a pragmatic and sensible manner.
I advocate playing the best eleven men in the squad, when possible, with the slight selection change when issues such as fatigue, injury, suspensions enter the fray.
On the flip side, it’s good to have a large squad, which can play together in harmony, achieving greatness along the way.
If Rafa rotates as much as he did at the start of last season, then the club will fall by the waist side, so the cliché of ‘moderation’ is best suited when confronting this situation.
'There's Man Utd and Man City at the bottom of Division 1, and by God they'll take some shifting.' - Bill Shankly.
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by heimdall » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:03 pm
Wilhelmsson wrote:Owzat wrote:Rotation is good and bad. However the manager can get it right if he doesn't rotate for the sake of it, rest players when needed.
GK - doesn't need rotating, may need resting now and again
CBs - don't need much rotating, they forge a partnership so best not to disrupt it
FBs - do a lot of work, but should cope with playing a few consecutive games. Best to rest when playing 'gimme' games
CMs - do a lot of work, but also work as a partnership so I'd rest when they need resting
WGs - do a lot of work, but all players need games to find form and being picked then left out then picked can't be helping
CFs - I'd say here rotation is useful, BUT a player won't hit form if they're on the bench every other game
Your best team will be dead on it's feet if it plays EVERY game, if you keep chopping and changing you will get inconsistency. To keep strikers in form have two on the pitch, two on the bench. Substitute for tactics and resting so they aren't overworked or underused. If Kuyt plays 70 mins for 3 games in a row, then he'll be able to find form and not play all the time. Put him on the bench for 3 games coming on for 20 mins and he won't be out of form or too tired having effectively played 3 x 90 mins.
You’re very accurate in what you say; I don’t disagree with a thing. IMO rotation is useful, if it’s used in a pragmatic and sensible manner.
I advocate playing the best eleven men in the squad, when possible, with the slight selection change when issues such as fatigue, injury, suspensions enter the fray.
On the flip side, it’s good to have a large squad, which can play together in harmony, achieving greatness along the way.
If Rafa rotates as much as he did at the start of last season, then the club will fall by the waist side, so the cliché of ‘moderation’ is best suited when confronting this situation.
Rotation at the start of the season is completely stupid, and if Rafa does it again this season I will be calling for his head immediately, assuming that we don't win the games where he rotates
Rotation firther into the season is sensible but not the wholesale changes rafa was making last season, never make more than 2 changes to a team unless you are playing against a complete noddy team.
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by Big Niall » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:30 pm
Manure and Chelsea rarely rotate and don't seem too tired come the end of the season (Chelsea were fitter than LFC in extra time in CL).
Pick your best 11 and give the ODD rest to players now and then.
Rafa should know his best strike force and they should nearly always play together to get used to each other and get some rythm going. it reall p*sses me off.
Pick your best 11 and give the ODD rest to players now and then.
Rafa should know his best strike force and they should nearly always play together to get used to each other and get some rythm going. it reall p*sses me off.
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by JoeTerp » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:45 pm
Maybe rafa does not know what our BEST XI is? I am sure if we asked everyone on here we would get a bunch of different answers. I think because rafa loves to strategize he picks his team based on how he thinks his opponents will play him.
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by The_Rock » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:48 pm
Players should only be rotated when they are tired.
But if we are gonna rate the players just for the sake (or due to the opposition we are facing)...then its just bewildering. Crouch would have scored 20 league goals (at least) if he had started most of our games last season.....
BTW, has any team won the English league with massive rotation ?
But if we are gonna rate the players just for the sake (or due to the opposition we are facing)...then its just bewildering. Crouch would have scored 20 league goals (at least) if he had started most of our games last season.....
BTW, has any team won the English league with massive rotation ?
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by weringo » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:53 pm
I agree with Alan Hansen when he says "rotation is great when your winning". At the start of the season it is completely unnecessary as everyone is fresh anyway and players need time to gel which won't happen if you're on the bench every other game.
Rafa is never going to stop rotating as he firmly believes that is what you need to do to win the league but I wish he would just let the team settle for the first 5-6 game of the season by playing the same team, and then perhaps make a couple of changes once we have a few wins under the belt.
All we need next season is a good start and we've got the league in the bag
Rafa is never going to stop rotating as he firmly believes that is what you need to do to win the league but I wish he would just let the team settle for the first 5-6 game of the season by playing the same team, and then perhaps make a couple of changes once we have a few wins under the belt.
All we need next season is a good start and we've got the league in the bag
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by account deleted by request » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:33 pm
Pako Ayesteran sets an uphill challenge for Liverpool's stars
Jul 27 2007 by Chris Bascombe with the Reds in Hong Kong, Liverpool Echo
THERE’S a mound of turf at Melwood which the Liverpool stars have dubbed ‘Pako Hill’.
As metaphors for the last three years at Anfield go, you’d be hard-pressed to find a better one than the sight of the team regularly struggling to reach its peak.
When Rafa Benitez’s chief lieutenant, Pako Ayesteran, created the training aid – a man-made hill which players pound up and down – he visualised Liverpool becoming the fittest team in the world.
He said: "Every year we're trying to improve the facilities, and the peak is another way of doing this. There are three. One is is 34m long with a gradiant of 5. The other is 24m with a gradient of 5. Another is 70m long."
As someone disinterested in plaudits, it’s no surprise he dismisses any suggestion he’s near to achieving his goal.
It was once said of one of Ayesteran’s legendary predecessors, Ronnie Moran, that no matter how much hype surrounded Liverpool’s progress, he could be relied upon to provide the reality check and demand much more.
Ayesteran is cut from the same cloth. He’s a confessed sceptic when it comes to assessing his team’s current standing.
Despite welcoming a series of leaps in the right direction, he maintains Liverpool will only be ready to make the final step with a fundamental change in the psychology of the club.
“We have to change the culture surrounding Liverpool,” says Ayesteran. “All of us have responsibility, from the coaching staff, the players, the board and the supporters.
“The change I’m talking about is a mental one. I’m not sure if Liverpool is ready to accept change, and this could be our biggest obstacle to taking our next step.
“Everyone needs to accept there are too many games in England but everyone says every competition is important, but I don’t agree with that.
“If we expect the same players to start in every competition, we can not be successful. We would be able to get more from all the players in the most important games if it was recognised a club of Liverpool’s size should not see all these competitions as important.
“Also, in English football too much is made of starting with the same 11 each week.
“It would be fantastic for the board if this was possible. We could use just 11 players every season and not have tospend money to have a 23 man squad.
“Some players have had too much pressure on them for too long. When we arrived, people were saying how in the years before Stevie (Gerrard) had to carry too much responsibility for the team on and off the park. This was not fair on him or his team mates.
“To be successful, you can’t be looking to the same individuals all the time. It has to be group effort.”
Ayesteran senses danger if too much is anticipated in the months to come.
“I’m not thinking in terms of expectations for this season,” he says. “To have a winning team is a process. If you have to sign six players in the summer, I don’t think it’s a good situation if you want to win the title.
“I’ve never seen a major transformation in any team within a year. Even when we won La Liga with Valencia for the first time, the side had been improving gradually in the years earlier.
“Manchester United did not win the title because of last year. They won it because they’ve improved over three years and earned their reward, buying just two or three players each season.
“First we must put ourselves in a position where we can see ourselves winning the Premier. I don’t think we are in that position yet, so that’s the first ambition.
“Can Liverpool say it has been close to the league in the last five years? No. Of course we have to believe we can be close, but I think to expect to win it this season would be a big mistake.
“Sometimes when you react to big expectations you make decisions to get quick results when you should be thinking over the medium and long term.
“That also leads to mistakes. This is where Manchester United have done things properly.
“Winning the Champions League in our first season increased expectations on us, but we were not a great team. You only have to get through 11 games to win that competition.”
No doubt Ayesteran’s brutal assessment will be interpreted in some quarters as negative.
He refutes this, insisting he’s being realistic for the club’s own good.
“As a group, we are all thinking positively,” he insists. “That’s how you get the best from everyone. Whether positive thinking alone is enough, I don’t know, but whatever the situation you can be certain we’ll all be working hard.
“The spine of our team is as good as any in the league. I wouldn’t change the spine of our team with that of Chelsea or Manchester United. The rest of the squad is where we need to improve and that will determine how close we can go, but the new players must also be given time.
“We’re on the way to where we want to be and we have more solutions now thanwe did three years ago, but people must realise there’s still a way to go.”
Until then, Liverpool’s players will still be trying to reach that elusive summit.
“It was Robbie Fowler who first called the area of Melwood Pako Hill, or Pako Peak. I tried to get the players to work with me for a week to build it, but they wouldn’t!” laughed the assistant boss.
As long as Ayesteran keeps leading them up it, Liverpool may eventually hit the heights they’re craving.
Jul 27 2007 by Chris Bascombe with the Reds in Hong Kong, Liverpool Echo
THERE’S a mound of turf at Melwood which the Liverpool stars have dubbed ‘Pako Hill’.
As metaphors for the last three years at Anfield go, you’d be hard-pressed to find a better one than the sight of the team regularly struggling to reach its peak.
When Rafa Benitez’s chief lieutenant, Pako Ayesteran, created the training aid – a man-made hill which players pound up and down – he visualised Liverpool becoming the fittest team in the world.
He said: "Every year we're trying to improve the facilities, and the peak is another way of doing this. There are three. One is is 34m long with a gradiant of 5. The other is 24m with a gradient of 5. Another is 70m long."
As someone disinterested in plaudits, it’s no surprise he dismisses any suggestion he’s near to achieving his goal.
It was once said of one of Ayesteran’s legendary predecessors, Ronnie Moran, that no matter how much hype surrounded Liverpool’s progress, he could be relied upon to provide the reality check and demand much more.
Ayesteran is cut from the same cloth. He’s a confessed sceptic when it comes to assessing his team’s current standing.
Despite welcoming a series of leaps in the right direction, he maintains Liverpool will only be ready to make the final step with a fundamental change in the psychology of the club.
“We have to change the culture surrounding Liverpool,” says Ayesteran. “All of us have responsibility, from the coaching staff, the players, the board and the supporters.
“The change I’m talking about is a mental one. I’m not sure if Liverpool is ready to accept change, and this could be our biggest obstacle to taking our next step.
“Everyone needs to accept there are too many games in England but everyone says every competition is important, but I don’t agree with that.
“If we expect the same players to start in every competition, we can not be successful. We would be able to get more from all the players in the most important games if it was recognised a club of Liverpool’s size should not see all these competitions as important.
“Also, in English football too much is made of starting with the same 11 each week.
“It would be fantastic for the board if this was possible. We could use just 11 players every season and not have tospend money to have a 23 man squad.
“Some players have had too much pressure on them for too long. When we arrived, people were saying how in the years before Stevie (Gerrard) had to carry too much responsibility for the team on and off the park. This was not fair on him or his team mates.
“To be successful, you can’t be looking to the same individuals all the time. It has to be group effort.”
Ayesteran senses danger if too much is anticipated in the months to come.
“I’m not thinking in terms of expectations for this season,” he says. “To have a winning team is a process. If you have to sign six players in the summer, I don’t think it’s a good situation if you want to win the title.
“I’ve never seen a major transformation in any team within a year. Even when we won La Liga with Valencia for the first time, the side had been improving gradually in the years earlier.
“Manchester United did not win the title because of last year. They won it because they’ve improved over three years and earned their reward, buying just two or three players each season.
“First we must put ourselves in a position where we can see ourselves winning the Premier. I don’t think we are in that position yet, so that’s the first ambition.
“Can Liverpool say it has been close to the league in the last five years? No. Of course we have to believe we can be close, but I think to expect to win it this season would be a big mistake.
“Sometimes when you react to big expectations you make decisions to get quick results when you should be thinking over the medium and long term.
“That also leads to mistakes. This is where Manchester United have done things properly.
“Winning the Champions League in our first season increased expectations on us, but we were not a great team. You only have to get through 11 games to win that competition.”
No doubt Ayesteran’s brutal assessment will be interpreted in some quarters as negative.
He refutes this, insisting he’s being realistic for the club’s own good.
“As a group, we are all thinking positively,” he insists. “That’s how you get the best from everyone. Whether positive thinking alone is enough, I don’t know, but whatever the situation you can be certain we’ll all be working hard.
“The spine of our team is as good as any in the league. I wouldn’t change the spine of our team with that of Chelsea or Manchester United. The rest of the squad is where we need to improve and that will determine how close we can go, but the new players must also be given time.
“We’re on the way to where we want to be and we have more solutions now thanwe did three years ago, but people must realise there’s still a way to go.”
Until then, Liverpool’s players will still be trying to reach that elusive summit.
“It was Robbie Fowler who first called the area of Melwood Pako Hill, or Pako Peak. I tried to get the players to work with me for a week to build it, but they wouldn’t!” laughed the assistant boss.
As long as Ayesteran keeps leading them up it, Liverpool may eventually hit the heights they’re craving.
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by adamnbarrett » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:42 pm
I does benefit our Cup runs later on in the season though.
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