Liverpool FC Forum

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:56 am

lets see houiller's first 3 years 99/00 4th. 2000/01 3rd along with the uefa cup, fa cup and league cup. 2001/02 2nd in the league. rafa's first 3 years european cup and fifth 05/06 fa cup and 3rd, 06/07 3rd and losing finallists in european cup. So Houiller won 3 trophies if we exclude charity shield and super cup, Rafa won 2 trophies if we exclude the chairty shield and super cup. Houiller finished higher than Benitez. So I'd say Houiller done much better.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:07 am

First season: Rafa - wins the european cup after 21 without it, fifth in the league, and reaches the league cup final.

Houllier: Comes Fourth - big achievement

Rafa wins

Second season: Rafa - Achieves a premiership points record, wins the FA cup - Third in the league.

Houllier: The treble and third in the league.

Houllier wins

Third season: Rafa - reaches another UCL final, unfortunate to lose. Comes third in the league.

Houllier: 2nd in the league.

Rafa wins

Houllier win %: 51%
Rafa win %: 56%

In the context of the money from Abramovich, Mourinho coming in and a developed manure, Rafa wins.

by **heimdall** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:08 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:lets see houiller's first 3 years 99/00 4th. 2000/01 3rd along with the uefa cup, fa cup and league cup. 2001/02 2nd in the league. rafa's first 3 years european cup and fifth 05/06 fa cup and 3rd, 06/07 3rd and losing finallists in european cup. So Houiller won 3 trophies if we exclude charity shield and super cup, Rafa won 2 trophies if we exclude the chairty shield and super cup. Houiller finished higher than Benitez. So I'd say Houiller done much better.

Are you high or something, you are talking utter sh1t.

Rafa is a far far better manager than Houllier. Rafa got us to two Champions league finals, one of which we won, Houllier got us the UEFA cup where we played a horrible match and only just won. Also the league is much tougher now than it was under Houllier, didn't Rafa get us a record points tally the season before last and we still finished 3rd!

Also please learn how to use some basic grammar and watch out for those double negatives eh! :rasp

by **babu** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:57 am

starting to sound very like 'Liverpoolanytime' .

by **Penguins** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:59 am

One of the most important points I'd like to stress is the state liverpool were in when GH got the sack.

Since 02 GH practically didn't make one correct decision for 2 years.

He brought in a host of players for a huge amount of money and not 1 did deliver. When Rafa came there was just no money to spend after GH bought Cissé.
All the star players were desillusioned and pondering to leave the club.
Gerrard stayed just but our striker didn't and we got almost nothing for him either. I blame a lot of parties for that, GH included. The squad was in it's worst postition for over 10 years.

So there was Rafa with 15m to spend after Owen went and got Alonso and Garcia, 2 fantastic signings at that price.

And even if he just couldn't play some of GH buys like Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou etc he still somehow made Biscan, Traore useful and had to make due with Pongolle, Baros and Mellor during the season.
And for me he achieved the impossible that season with such a squad winning the european cup after 21 years.

Then there is the fact that a certain team went out and spent 200-300 millions during these 3 years making it impossible to win the league with the points total the winners had 10 years ago.

To be able to win something you have to first build up a squad that is capable of winning and Rafa is doing that slowly but surely. I don't know where 65-70 million came from since it's common knowledge that Rafa has been given around 45 million net to spend on players duriing his 1st 3 years.

And I still can't understand the part about Rafa being a failure in the transfer market. All the players except maybe Morientes did cost peanuts and were all thought of a cover for the 1st squad. He didn't loose money on any of the other players and unlike GH cut them loose pretty quickly if they didn't pan out.
Nowadays every damn part of the world is scouted so if you pay 2 million for a player you normally get just that, a player worth 2 million and not 10.

And about the part of getting the young lads a chance.
Liverpool is one of the biggest clubs in the world. Today a lot of money is involved in the game and together with the demands on the club means there are no time or possibility to develop players or take risks.
If you want to succeed at the club you have to both have the talent and the huge drive to want to become a 1st team player.
So once given the chance in the cups and in training it's all up to the young lads to show that they're good enough.

If they are Rafa would surely give them more chances since he can save the transfer money. If they aren't then there is no place in todays game to allow the players some league games even if the overall quality of the team might suffer.
Even if it could maybe help them mature/develop.

by **heimdall** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:11 am

Penguins wrote:One of the most important points I'd like to stress is the state liverpool were in when GH got the sack.

Since 02 GH practically didn't make one correct decision for 2 years.

He brought in a host of players for a huge amount of money and not 1 did deliver. When Rafa came there was just no money to spend after GH bought Cissé.
All the star players were desillusioned and pondering to leave the club.
Gerrard stayed just but our striker didn't and we got almost nothing for him either. I blame a lot of parties for that, GH included. The squad was in it's worst postition for over 10 years.

So there was Rafa with 15m to spend after Owen went and got Alonso and Garcia, 2 fantastic signings at that price.

And even if he just couldn't play some of GH buys like Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou etc he still somehow made Biscan, Traore useful and had to make due with Pongolle, Baros and Mellor during the season.
And for me he achieved the impossible that season with such a squad winning the european cup after 21 years.

Then there is the fact that a certain team went out and spent 200-300 millions during these 3 years making it impossible to win the league with the points total the winners had 10 years ago.

To be able to win something you have to first build up a squad that is capable of winning and Rafa is doing that slowly but surely. I don't know where 65-70 million came from since it's common knowledge that Rafa has been given around 45 million net to spend on players duriing his 1st 3 years.

And I still can't understand the part about Rafa being a failure in the transfer market. All the players except maybe Morientes did cost peanuts and were all thought of a cover for the 1st squad. He didn't loose money on any of the other players and unlike GH cut them loose pretty quickly if they didn't pan out.
Nowadays every damn part of the world is scouted so if you pay 2 million for a player you normally get just that, a player worth 2 million and not 10.

And about the part of getting the young lads a chance.
Liverpool is one of the biggest clubs in the world. Today a lot of money is involved in the game and together with the demands on the club means there are no time or possibility to develop players or take risks.
If you want to succeed at the club you have to both have the talent and the huge drive to want to become a 1st team player.
So once given the chance in the cups and in training it's all up to the young lads to show that they're good enough.

If they are Rafa would surely give them more chances since he can save the transfer money. If they aren't then there is no place in todays game to allow the players some league games even if the overall quality of the team might suffer.
Even if it could maybe help them mature/develop.

Totally agree, Rafa is doing a fine job, although I'm still a bit p1ssed off with him at the way he got us knocked out of both the FA and Carling Cups in the sapce of a week last season, but then he did get us to another Champions League final which we were unlucky not too win

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:07 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:lets see houiller's first 3 years 99/00 4th. 2000/01 3rd along with the uefa cup, fa cup and league cup. 2001/02 2nd in the league. rafa's first 3 years european cup and fifth 05/06 fa cup and 3rd, 06/07 3rd and losing finallists in european cup. So Houiller won 3 trophies if we exclude charity shield and super cup, Rafa won 2 trophies if we exclude the chairty shield and super cup. Houiller finished higher than Benitez. So I'd say Houiller done much better.

You f*cking retard.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:09 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Yet again people failing to see a basic point. I'm aware Macca wasn't bought, but it's still about spotting talent. Also I compared the players I did, to make my argument more in favour of my point, as you did with yours. I'm not going to compare a Houiller bad signing with one of Rafa's better signings shall we say, when I'm saying Rafa doesn't spot talent. Just like you're not going to compare one of Rafa's signings like Pelligrino to Hyypia, because your point is Rafa is a genius.

Spotting talent? Are you trying to suggest that Macca was spotted by Evans, you deluded clag-nut on the p*ss-stained Y-fronts of society?
Because you're putting Rafa's worst signings up against his 3 predecessors' BEST signings.

Get a f*cking brain, you c*nt.

by **Judge** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:11 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Giggs is Welsh.

Giggs played for england youth before deciding to play for wales. i think its his grandma's nationality that qualified him for wales.

so one could argue giggs is english

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:12 pm

Giggs was born in Cardiff, he's Welsh.

by **Judge** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:14 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Giggs was born in Cardiff, he's Welsh.

cardiff play in the english league !!

plus he did play for england youth. are his parents english??

my parents are english, but i was born in scotland, but im english and not scottish

work that out :grinning:

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:16 pm

I know but Cardiff City are a club, we don't have a national British soccer team, Wales have their own FA.

He was born in Wales, so that makes him Welsh!

And his parents are Welsh too, so he is all Welsh.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:20 pm

He's a pr*ck, is what he is...

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:22 pm

And that Lando :laugh:

by **Judge** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:00 pm

LFC2007 wrote:I know but Cardiff City are a club, we don't have a national British soccer team, Wales have their own FA.

He was born in Wales, so that makes him Welsh!

And his parents are Welsh too, so he is all Welsh.

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