Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:29 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Anderson, Linfield and Peltier will get us relegated, because they are young kids. OK so based on that view, football will become non exsistant because no young lad can make the 1st team because he will get his team relegated, what a load of sh!t. I suppose bringing Macca and Fowler at the same time got us relegated to didn't it?

Again, you take it to the extreme to make your point. I didn't refer to "no young lad", I referred to the situation with our youngsters. If they're not good enough or not ready for the first team you can't expect the manager to play them, but you do, because irrespective of ability or readiness you want to see local lads playing. The Macca and Fowler generation was different, we actually had talent coming through. Academies are not delivering now, but you wouldn't understand the nuances of the academy system because they are a decade old and you only do half centuries :laugh:

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by **redtrader74** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:35 pm

This arguement is worthless, if you believe Rafa to be only just a good manager, then even a good manager will spot exceptional talent worthy of the Prem in their youth ranks. Fowler, Owen, Gerrard AND McManaman would have been spotted by a blind man, Carra, Murphy would have been by a decent manager. For whatever reason to date none of them have impressed Rafa, if they were anywhere near good enough why the Fck would Rafa see fit to go out and spend money on transfers?? especially when he would know far more about the youth team player than any amount of scouting could tell him about another player. Sure some of the transfers didn't work out, not one manager can claim that all his have. SO FAR THEY HAVE NOT BEEN GOOD ENOUGH OR READY TO PLAY FOR LFC.

Linfield, Peltier = Macca, Fowler.... what are you on? :Oo:

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:49 pm

Well OK Peltier and Guthrie haven't been good enough so that's why Rafa gave them a go. If he was a so called genius, he would of known they weren't ready, as you lot seem to constantly be saying. So were those 2 good enough because they were given a run in the side? Was David Raven a good enough right-back because he got chosen on a few occasions in Rafa's 1st year. Zak Whitbread another good player because he was chosen?

You can't say that if they were good enough they'd be chosen because obviously the ones who have been chosen, "the good enough ones", have proven they aren't good enough. Great management. So if he can pick players who haven't been good enough I'm sure he can the one or two who are. Hang on a minute, no he can't because they're on loan to the likes of Swansea and Southampton.

Spearing, Putterill, Peliter and Linfield have all been called up to train with the 1st side, so if they're good enough to train with the 1st side then surely they're good enough to play in the 1st side. I'm sure Putterill could do a better job on the left than Zenden or Garcia done out there last year or what Harry Kewell has done out there when he's played. Linfield won't get a sniff. Spearing is an automatic replacement for Finnan, it saves us money and it also saves us another Josemi or Kromkamp

by **redtrader74** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:56 pm

So whats your point? In your earlier posts you said Rafa wasn't giving the kids a chance and buying dross instead, now you tell us they are training with the first team....... As i said they are either not good enough or not ready. Before anyone actually plays you have to take an educated guess as to whether they are good and /or ready.

by **redtrader74** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:59 pm

oops double post :blush:

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:59 pm

They've been given a go in insignificant games, just to see how they fair, not week in week out in the EPL. You can tell if a player is a Fowler or an Owen if you've been following them in the youth team for a while, but there maybe a player with mediocre talent who can do a consistent job who may be of use, that is why we persist with some. With others, we just cannot afford the time to blood them in important games, we don't have that luxury. They have to impress in the cups and in training, I doubt Rafa would release a player with the ability of Fowler or Owen without having a reasonable idea of their potential.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:01 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I'm sure Putterill could do a better job on the left than Zenden or Garcia done out there last year or what Harry Kewell has done out there when he's played.

You're having a laugh, mate. I admire your conviction, I really do, but there is no way that Putterill, at this stage, is anywhere close to any of these players.

by **redtrader74** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:02 pm

They have to impress in the cups and in training, I doubt Rafa would release a player with the ability of Fowler or Owen without having a reasonable idea of their potential.

And he has not released one youth teamer worthy of playing for the top six in the prem.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:07 pm

Well its nice to see my little trick worked. When I say give the kids a go, I get told we can't afford it. Now when I say why do we persist with these lads if they're not good enough, I get told we have to play them to see if they're good enough. Just proves that you lot just like to either cause disagreement or just seem to disagree with whatever I say.

Also I read we have to give them a go. I'm pretty sure I've said this on more than one occasion and was getting told we can't afford to by the same fella who is now saying we have to give them a go. Obviously a very fickle man.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:35 pm

Your little trick didn't work, it fell flat on its ars,e but you're to ignorant to see why.

If a player is clearly not good enough then you release them when they are 16. If a player demonstrates decent potential at 16 you keep them on and see of they are capable, maybe give them a few games in the cups or send them on loan. A player with mediocre talent but who has the potential to be consistent may develop out of a few of these players. If a player demonstrates great potential e.g. Fowler, Owen or Macca you keep them and give them a go in league games GRADUALLY until they build their confidence.

When you say give the kids ago, we say, yes, in the league cup and maybe in the UCL group stages once we've qualified - or in the FA cup at home. When we say we can't afford it,we say in important league games we can't afford it - but you ignore the distinction as usual.

You haven't a bloody clue, for you it's either one or the other. They play in the league week in week out to see if they're good enough at the potential expense of points or they leave, that's your theory in a nutshell.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:13 am

Yep that's about it, put them in week in week out because they can't do a worse job than so called top class players like riise/kewell/kuyt.

So lets go your way. Give them a games in the league cup against scunthorpe or brighton. that doesn't prove if they can hack it at premiership level. the only way to see that is give them a go. plain and fuc.king simple. fair enough put them in the league cup to begin with to see if there's any point putting them into the prem, but if they prove their talent then give them a go.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:25 am

That's where you're wrong, Riise, Kewell and Kuyt can cut it in the league. They are far better than any of Putterill, Lindfield or Spearing.

Playing in the league cup gives them experience and gives the manager a chance to assess their ability, playing them in the league, especially when the games are of greater significance would be silly and thank goodness we don't have a manager stupid enough to do it when they are not good enough. If they are really good enough then they will be given the chance, but they have not been good enough and that is something you will never accept as you don't accept the deficiencies of the academy system that have existed acutely for the past 7 or 8 years.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:37 am

I'm aware of the lack of talent coming through the youth system at Liverpool. I don't need a pr!ck like you to tell me. On the flip side I still don't think its lack of talent in the youth set-up I just think because of how football has changed, younger players don't get time to adapt to Premiership life, and especially not at the biggest clubs like ourselves. Now Everton because of the size of their squad have to bring youth players through on a regular basis, ours however and last in the pecking order and are in and out constantly, I think that's were the problem really lies.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:46 am

Not just thick but abusive now, interesting.

There is a CLEAR deficit in the technical ability of our youth players. You don't understand how the academy system has affected this, hence why you persist with your view that it's solely due to young players not being given the chance. You can't turn sh!t into quality.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:00 am

well apparantly you can, didn't Benitez turn Traore into a european cup winner? didn't Benitez turn Cisse into a european cup winner? didn't Benitez turn Josemi and Nunez and Baros into european cup winners or was i dreaming on the 25th of may 2005. Or doesn't winning the european cup mean anything these days. must be that.

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