I was wrong about rafa

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:26 am

Litmanen may not of been prolific but who said he was? Alls I done was say he was the 4th forward in our treble winning side, not Milan Baros which you incorrectly said.

As for Jari being prolific or not, Kuyt and Crouch were hardly banging in the goals last year were they.


Lets compare forwards then as you wish to do:
Treble Jari coming to the end of his career-Last season Robbie coming to the end of his career. Based on performances ONLY in their final year at Anfield, I'd choose Jari because he was superb for us in 2001. Last season Robbie wouldn't of been missed.
Next the pacey forward. Owen at his prime 2001, Bellamy at his prime 2006/07. No contest not even going to define why Owen comes out streets ahead.
Next the tricky, skillfull player. Robbie 2001 or Kuyt 06/07. Robbie was brilliant that year for us, Kuyt IMO is a waste of time.
Finally the big fella who's going to win the headers for us. This time last year's player Peter Crouch comes out on top, even if Emile Heskey was in good form during the 2000/01 season. Crouch is a better player in my eyes.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:29 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Litmanen may not of been prolific but who said he was? Alls I done was say he was the 4th forward in our treble winning side, not Milan Baros which you incorrectly said.

As for Jari being prolific or not, Kuyt and Crouch were hardly banging in the goals last year were they.


Lets compare forwards then as you wish to do:
Treble Jari coming to the end of his career-Last season Robbie coming to the end of his career. Based on performances ONLY in their final year at Anfield, I'd choose Jari because he was superb for us in 2001. Last season Robbie wouldn't of been missed.
Next the pacey forward. Owen at his prime 2001, Bellamy at his prime 2006/07. No contest not even going to define why Owen comes out streets ahead.
Next the tricky, skillfull player. Robbie 2001 or Kuyt 06/07. Robbie was brilliant that year for us, Kuyt IMO is a waste of time.
Finally the big fella who's going to win the headers for us. This time last year's player Peter Crouch comes out on top, even if Emile Heskey was in good form during the 2000/01 season. Crouch is a better player in my eyes.

But Houllier didn't sign any of those except for Jari, who he criminally under used.

Fowler, Owen, (Gerrard, Carragher and Murphy) were all at the club before the Frenchman arrived, ergo are not his signings.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:35 am

I did not incorrectly say Baros was in the treble winning side, you assumed I was referring to the treble winning side - which I was not. I was comparing strikers in recent times, without Fowler or Owen as they came through the youth team.

Of the strikers who both managers have brough in, Rafa has made the better acquisitions. Kuyt and Crouch are probably Rafa's best striker signings yet - excluding Torres as he's not yet played. While Houllier signed Baros and Heskey, even Litmanen, Riedle and Cisse don't compare to the strikers Rafa has brought in. That is the comparison I was making.

Like I said you can NOT compare Owen or Fowler with Rafa;s strikers as they came through the youth setup and Houllier was lucky enough to have them at his disposal, he did not buy those players therefore it does not demonstrate his ability to spot talent.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:37 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Litmanen may not of been prolific but who said he was? Alls I done was say he was the 4th forward in our treble winning side, not Milan Baros which you incorrectly said.

As for Jari being prolific or not, Kuyt and Crouch were hardly banging in the goals last year were they.


Lets compare forwards then as you wish to do:
Treble Jari coming to the end of his career-Last season Robbie coming to the end of his career. Based on performances ONLY in their final year at Anfield, I'd choose Jari because he was superb for us in 2001. Last season Robbie wouldn't of been missed.
Next the pacey forward. Owen at his prime 2001, Bellamy at his prime 2006/07. No contest not even going to define why Owen comes out streets ahead.
Next the tricky, skillfull player. Robbie 2001 or Kuyt 06/07. Robbie was brilliant that year for us, Kuyt IMO is a waste of time.
Finally the big fella who's going to win the headers for us. This time last year's player Peter Crouch comes out on top, even if Emile Heskey was in good form during the 2000/01 season. Crouch is a better player in my eyes.

But Houllier didn't sign any of those except for Jari, who he criminally under used.

Fowler, Owen, (Gerrard, Carragher and Murphy) were all at the club before the Frenchman arrived, ergo are not his signings.

I'm not claiming the forward line to be signings of Houiller's. Oh and BTW Heskey was bought by Houiller for 11million so I think stating only Jari was Houiller's buy, is inncorrect. But I don't want to rub it in.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:39 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Only 4 players of gbjh's list were actually signed by Houllier.

Also another inncorrect statement Lando. There are 6 which are the signings of Houiller. Babbel, Hyypia, Hamman, Westerveld, Finnan and Henchoz. You seem to of deemed 2 of these signings not as Houiller's. Not to sure why, but I am sure you have your reasons.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:43 am

LFC2007 wrote:I did not incorrectly say Baros was in the treble winning side, you assumed I was referring to the treble winning side - which I was not. I was comparing strikers in recent times, without Fowler or Owen as they came through the youth team.

Of the strikers who both managers have brough in, Rafa has made the better acquisitions. Kuyt and Crouch are probably Rafa's best striker signings yet - excluding Torres as he's not yet played. While Houllier signed Baros and Heskey, even Litmanen, Riedle and Cisse don't compare to the strikers Rafa has brought in. That is the comparison I was making.

Like I said you can NOT compare Owen or Fowler with Rafa;s strikers as they came through the youth setup and Houllier was lucky enough to have them at his disposal, he did not buy those players therefore it does not demonstrate his ability to spot talent.

Yet another inncorrect statement from a so called Liverpool fan. Karl Heinze Reidle was a signing made by Roy Evans. Do I need to educate you on anything else?

As for Houiller having Owen and Fowler at his disposal and Rafa didn't, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Rafa who sold Owen? So if he had kept hold of him wouldn't he have had Owen at his disposal? Didn't Rafa bring Fowler back, so didn't Rafa have Fowler at his disposal to? I must obviously be dreaming.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:56 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Yet another inncorrect statement from a so called Liverpool fan. Karl Heinze Reidle was a signing made by Roy Evans. Do I need to educate you on anything else?

As for Houiller having Owen and Fowler at his disposal and Rafa didn't, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Rafa who sold Owen? So if he had kept hold of him wouldn't he have had Owen at his disposal? Didn't Rafa bring Fowler back, so didn't Rafa have Fowler at his disposal to? I must obviously be dreaming.

The question was about previous managers, in recent times. Was Evans not a manager in recent times? Is it not okay to compare one of his latter signings to Rafa's? I included Riedle by mistake, but he was from the same era and played under Houllier nontheless.
Do you have a PHD in missing the point?

A so called Liverpool fan?, sure you'd know that wouldn't you ya feckin muppet. I attend more games than most of the people on this forum, t!t.

The second part is laughable, Owen wanted to leave to further his career, do I need to educate you about anything else? :laugh:

Rafa brought Fowler back, but had you actually read one of my previous posts where I CLEARLY state "at their peak - Fowler was not" you may not make such a stupid statement as "so didn't Rafa have Fowler at his disposal too". Well maybe Rafa should bring back Rush and have him at his disposal, maybe that will suit your argument too! :O
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:27 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Litmanen may not of been prolific but who said he was? Alls I done was say he was the 4th forward in our treble winning side, not Milan Baros which you incorrectly said.

As for Jari being prolific or not, Kuyt and Crouch were hardly banging in the goals last year were they.


Lets compare forwards then as you wish to do:
Treble Jari coming to the end of his career-Last season Robbie coming to the end of his career. Based on performances ONLY in their final year at Anfield, I'd choose Jari because he was superb for us in 2001. Last season Robbie wouldn't of been missed.
Next the pacey forward. Owen at his prime 2001, Bellamy at his prime 2006/07. No contest not even going to define why Owen comes out streets ahead.
Next the tricky, skillfull player. Robbie 2001 or Kuyt 06/07. Robbie was brilliant that year for us, Kuyt IMO is a waste of time.
Finally the big fella who's going to win the headers for us. This time last year's player Peter Crouch comes out on top, even if Emile Heskey was in good form during the 2000/01 season. Crouch is a better player in my eyes.

But Houllier didn't sign any of those except for Jari, who he criminally under used.

Fowler, Owen, (Gerrard, Carragher and Murphy) were all at the club before the Frenchman arrived, ergo are not his signings.

I'm not claiming the forward line to be signings of Houiller's. Oh and BTW Heskey was bought by Houiller for 11million so I think stating only Jari was Houiller's buy, is inncorrect. But I don't want to rub it in.

I thought it was obvious I was referring to the players you deemed the best choice of the two eras, therefore Heskey isn't included.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:29 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Only 4 players of gbjh's list were actually signed by Houllier.

Also another inncorrect statement Lando. There are 6 which are the signings of Houiller. Babbel, Hyypia, Hamman, Westerveld, Finnan and Henchoz. You seem to of deemed 2 of these signings not as Houiller's. Not to sure why, but I am sure you have your reasons.

Is it really beyond you to work these things out?

Starting lineup. 4 players.

Not difficult, really...
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:32 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I did not incorrectly say Baros was in the treble winning side, you assumed I was referring to the treble winning side - which I was not. I was comparing strikers in recent times, without Fowler or Owen as they came through the youth team.

Of the strikers who both managers have brough in, Rafa has made the better acquisitions. Kuyt and Crouch are probably Rafa's best striker signings yet - excluding Torres as he's not yet played. While Houllier signed Baros and Heskey, even Litmanen, Riedle and Cisse don't compare to the strikers Rafa has brought in. That is the comparison I was making.

Like I said you can NOT compare Owen or Fowler with Rafa;s strikers as they came through the youth setup and Houllier was lucky enough to have them at his disposal, he did not buy those players therefore it does not demonstrate his ability to spot talent.

Yet another inncorrect statement from a so called Liverpool fan. Karl Heinze Reidle was a signing made by Roy Evans. Do I need to educate you on anything else?

As for Houiller having Owen and Fowler at his disposal and Rafa didn't, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Rafa who sold Owen? So if he had kept hold of him wouldn't he have had Owen at his disposal? Didn't Rafa bring Fowler back, so didn't Rafa have Fowler at his disposal to? I must obviously be dreaming.

Owen had already decided to leave - you can't blame Rafa for that, and only an idiot would try, tbh.

2006 Fowler was not to the same standard as 1998-2001 Fowler.

Believe it or not, players tend to get older...

To say you're trying to condescend to me and LFC2007, you're a bit slow on the uptake.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:11 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Only 4 players of gbjh's list were actually signed by Houllier.

Also another inncorrect statement Lando. There are 6 which are the signings of Houiller. Babbel, Hyypia, Hamman, Westerveld, Finnan and Henchoz. You seem to of deemed 2 of these signings not as Houiller's. Not to sure why, but I am sure you have your reasons.

Is it really beyond you to work these things out?

Starting lineup. 4 players.

Not difficult, really...

Well then if its starting line up you would see there is only 3 signed by Houiller, what a joke you are.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:13 am

You lot said did Rafa have Fowler and Owen at his disposal, simple fact--YES. Wheter or not they were the same players under Houiller, the fact of the matter is Rafa had both players at his disposal.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:26 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I did not incorrectly say Baros was in the treble winning side, you assumed I was referring to the treble winning side - which I was not. I was comparing strikers in recent times, without Fowler or Owen as they came through the youth team.

Of the strikers who both managers have brough in, Rafa has made the better acquisitions. Kuyt and Crouch are probably Rafa's best striker signings yet - excluding Torres as he's not yet played. While Houllier signed Baros and Heskey, even Litmanen, Riedle and Cisse don't compare to the strikers Rafa has brought in. That is the comparison I was making.

Like I said you can NOT compare Owen or Fowler with Rafa;s strikers as they came through the youth setup and Houllier was lucky enough to have them at his disposal, he did not buy those players therefore it does not demonstrate his ability to spot talent.


As for Houiller having Owen and Fowler at his disposal and Rafa didn't, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Rafa who sold Owen? So if he had kept hold of him wouldn't he have had Owen at his disposal? Didn't Rafa bring Fowler back, so didn't Rafa have Fowler at his disposal to? I must obviously be dreaming.

yeah u must be dreaming. how can you compare fowler of last season to fowler of 00/01? so what if rafa had fowler? robbie wasnt gonna get past 2 or 3 players like he could've in 00/01 cause he isnt the same player.
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Postby LegBarnes » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:29 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:You lot said did Rafa have Fowler and Owen at his disposal, simple fact--YES. Wheter or not they were the same players under Houiller, the fact of the matter is Rafa had both players at his disposal.

jesus get a grip man what u want every one in forums to shout "you are NO 1 liverpool fan" you got a real ego problem .
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:30 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:You lot said did Rafa have Fowler and Owen at his disposal, simple fact--YES. Wheter or not they were the same players under Houiller, the fact of the matter is Rafa had both players at his disposal.

what good is it having a certain player at ur disposal when they are not gonna be of the same type of affectiveness anymore?
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