Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:15 am

Evra is far better than Heinze. Heinze isnt good enough going foward. His limitied.

by **stmichael** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:24 am

It shouldn't even be a question of whether Heinze is a good enough player for us. It should be that he would be a traitorous :censored:

of the highest order if he signed for us from the Mancs. Imagine one of ours going the other way, and how much we'd feel let down.

I don't want a player here that would clearly have no concept of loyalty if he even considered moving here. If Owen was to join the Mancs we'd do our best to erase him from the annuals of time, and that would be via two other clubs.

It would say a lot about the man if he were to move here.

by **JC_81** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:28 am

stmichael wrote:It shouldn't even be a question of whether Heinze is a good enough player for us. It should be that he would be a traitorous of the highest order if he signed for us from the Mancs. Imagine one of ours going the other way, and how much we'd feel let down.

I don't want a player here that would clearly have no concept of loyalty if he even considered moving here. If Owen was to join the Mancs we'd do our best to erase him from the annuals of time, and that would be via two other clubs.

It would say a lot about the man if he were to move here.

Couldn't agree more St Mike :nod

by **kazza** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:40 am

Owen was Liverpool born and bred, it is a little different. Heinze has not been there for that long. I think he is a tough, good solid defender and if he can improve the squad why not.

Remember Ince and Barmby, they played for United and Everton but they gave 100% to the club and all was forgiven. Having gone to other clubs for a year does not change the fact that they played for those clubs.

If he is cheap I say why not. If he scores against the scum at Old Trafford we would all be happy.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:42 am

if heinze does sign for liverpool will he get the no 57 shirt! lol

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:46 am

I think signing Heinze would p1ss the mancs off, so I would sign him

He does seem to think first and foremost about his country, and his club comes a long way second.

Personally I think we should sign the best players we can and not worry about were they come from, as long as they do the job for us (I would even sign Rooney :down:

)

by **Ade** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:50 am

The Ace1983 wrote:Don't really need strengthening at the left back spot, and Heinze's a bit old for my liking. Plus, he's played for the Mancs. I suppose one might say that Heinze's "bean" done really.

Disagree with you there Ace. LB does need strengthening - JAR is increasingly vulnerable, and if we get a solid LB our defence is as good as sorted.

I rate Heinze; he's tough, good positionally, good in the air attacking and defending, and totally committed. He won't offer much going forward, but I could live with that. I'd take him for around £4-5m. Whether the Mancs would sell to us, who knows, but there aren't many better LBs out there.

by **Ade** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:53 am

stmichael wrote:It shouldn't even be a question of whether Heinze is a good enough player for us. It should be that he would be a traitorous of the highest order if he signed for us from the Mancs. Imagine one of ours going the other way, and how much we'd feel let down.

I don't want a player here that would clearly have no concept of loyalty if he even considered moving here. If Owen was to join the Mancs we'd do our best to erase him from the annuals of time, and that would be via two other clubs.

It would say a lot about the man if he were to move here.

Disagree with that too. What loyalty does Heinze owe the Mancs? He was only bought what, two or three seasons ago, he's not a Manc, not from the Manc catchment area, didn't come up through the youth squad. He's not even English, so the rivalry b/w us and them isn't something he would've grown up with. And if the Mancs are binning him off, WTF shouldn't he join us?

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:59 am

stmichael wrote:It shouldn't even be a question of whether Heinze is a good enough player for us. It should be that he would be a traitorous of the highest order if he signed for us from the Mancs. Imagine one of ours going the other way, and how much we'd feel let down.

I don't want a player here that would clearly have no concept of loyalty if he even considered moving here. If Owen was to join the Mancs we'd do our best to erase him from the annuals of time, and that would be via two other clubs.

It would say a lot about the man if he were to move here.

That is your post Mike ........ right ?

Joking.

I couldnt care less how Man U and their fans would feel, so long as their on the recieving end I couldnt give a feck TBH.

Heinze I think is a very good left back, probably better than what we've already got defensively. If Rafa brought him in I'd be happy with that. Like I said I couldnt give a feck what he's like as a bloke, as long as he carries on doing the business on the pitch.

If he decided to twighlight his career in a few years time from now, and leave us and join the bitters. Well then we could worry about him as a bloke and sla.g him off then, but in between times if he's helped us achieve a league medal and and other trophies could we really s.lag him off for going Blue and bitter, or, we could look at it like ........ 'Its his retirement package and we couldnt be grudge someone one last payday could we' ?

by **Wilhelmsson** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:08 pm

Heinze is a very good player, his qualities are obvious, and I do find him to be a rather unsavoury character. His attitude and conduct on the pitch at times is nothing short of despicable. A good example would be his behaviour during Argentina’s QF loss to Germany at last summers World Cup.

Then there is the ‘small’ fact he plays for our arch-enemy over in Manchester. I didn’t support Paul Ince’s signing when he was bought in by Evans and he was bought into the club indirectly.

I certainly couldn’t support Heinze if he came here and the fact that Rafa might be contemplating doing business with MU is nothing short of stomach churning.

As for the left back problem, there simply isn’t one; Riise isn’t terrible in the position, he has had some problems there in the past (Benayoun FA Cup Final) however it’s no surprise that Riise has been apart of our miserly defence. He is a decent LB.

Aurelio isn’t a terrible player either and he was starting to settle down prior to his injury. I’d rather we spent the money MU desire for Henize on another position which needs strengthening.

by **heimdall** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:08 pm

I'd like to see him here, all this talk of loyalty is nonsense. Why should he owe anything to the mancs, if he chooses us over them then that is two fingers up to them right and that's ok in my book.

Plus he's a really good defender. :bowdown

by **Wilhelmsson** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:19 pm

heimdall wrote:I'd like to see him here, all this talk of loyalty is nonsense. Why should he owe anything to the mancs, if he chooses us over them then that is two fingers up to them right and that's ok in my book.

Plus he's a really good defender.

The problem is the hypocritical nature of the concept. If the shoe was on the foot how would you react? If MU unveiled Michael Owen as their new signing and he went on to score a hat trick of goals against us in a match what would the nature of your feelings be? Would your feelings be positive or negative?

I cannot lie if any Liverpool player (former or present) signed for MU I’d be hacked off and I would curse the name of that very player for years to come. It’s alright suggesting it would be funny for a MU player to stick his two fingers up at his current club in favour of his rivals, however it shows the player hasn’t got a backbone.

How did you feel when Owen essentially lied to fans about signing a new contract with the club? I know many people (including me) who resented Owen for not showing enough loyalty and respect to the club and it’s fans when it came to contract negotiations and his commitment to the club.

by **Ade** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:36 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
heimdall wrote:I'd like to see him here, all this talk of loyalty is nonsense. Why should he owe anything to the mancs, if he chooses us over them then that is two fingers up to them right and that's ok in my book.

Plus he's a really good defender.

The problem is the hypocritical nature of the concept. If the shoe was on the foot how would you react? If MU unveiled Michael Owen as their new signing and he went on to score a hat trick of goals against us in a match what would the nature of your feelings be? Would your feelings be positive or negative?

I cannot lie if any Liverpool player (former or present) signed for MU I’d be hacked off and I would curse the name of that very player for years to come. It’s alright suggesting it would be funny for a MU player to stick his two fingers up at his current club in favour of his rivals, however it shows the player hasn’t got a backbone.

How did you feel when Owen essentially lied to fans about signing a new contract with the club? I know many people (including me) who resented Owen for not showing enough loyalty and respect to the club and it’s fans when it came to contract negotiations and his commitment to the club.

I don't think there's any problem about this possible transfer. Heinze is surplus to requirments at OT. For whatever reason, SAF has decided he can do without him and will put him on the market. He's not a Manc and has no obligation to Utd or their supporters. He will, in effect, be a free agent who wants to go on and win something in the latter stages of his career.

The similarities with Owen aren't valid. He stiffed us by refusing to sign a new contract and then left Rafa in the lurch by leaving right before the season started, giving the club little time to find a replacement. Owen was also worth tens of millions at that stage, and left us grasping for about £8m. Heinze is doing nothing dishonest or shifty - he's been shown the door and should be free to move to a club where his talent might earn him what he's worth, financially and in silverware.

He's a very, very good player, better than any of our left backs, and if Rafa and SAF can do business on this, forget the chest-beating and let them get on with it.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:47 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:It’s alright suggesting it would be funny for a MU player to stick his two fingers up at his current club in favour of his rivals, however it shows the player hasn’t got a backbone.

On the contrary I think it shows extraordinary backbone. Look, the easiest thing in the world for him to do would be to go and play in La Liga. He's rated, he'd land himself at a decent club over there and he'd be well paid--all without the aggro he'd get here for switching sides. So, if he does come over to us he's taking a lot of extra weight on his shoulders which is a brave decision, IMO.

I think all of this talk about him being a mercenary vs. him showing the Mancs two fingers comes down to the supporters projecting their concerns or hops and has little to do with Heinze himself. As Liverpool supporters we just have a hard time contemplating a player crossing the great divide. We can't conceive of it as a normal transfer decision--it must be a mark of his character: either he's got no loyalty or he hates the Mancs deep down (which some fans would relish). I doubt any of this applies to the player. He's an Argentinian who's been there 3 years, who's unsatisfied with his contract and playing time at his current club and who is, therefore, exploring other offers. He's not Gary bloody Neville or Rio feckin Ferdinand.

So, if we make him the best offer and he decides to take it, it doesn't mean he's a soulless mercenary. Nor does it mean he's going to run the length of the pitch and celebrate in front of the Annie Road end, Neville style, when we beat them at Anfield next season. I think, in fact, it would say quite a bit about our drawing power as a club to have a player consider moving over to us from the English Champions.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:51 pm

Ade wrote:I don't think there's any problem about this possible transfer. Heinze is surplus to requirments at OT. For whatever reason, SAF has decided he can do without him and will put him on the market. He's not a Manc and has no obligation to Utd or their supporters. He will, in effect, be a free agent who wants to go on and win something in the latter stages of his career.

The similarities with Owen aren't valid. He stiffed us by refusing to sign a new contract and then left Rafa in the lurch by leaving right before the season started, giving the club little time to find a replacement. Owen was also worth tens of millions at that stage, and left us grasping for about £8m. Heinze is doing nothing dishonest or shifty - he's been shown the door and should be free to move to a club where his talent might earn him what he's worth, financially and in silverware.

He's a very, very good player, better than any of our left backs, and if Rafa and SAF can do business on this, forget the chest-beating and let them get on with it.

I cannot and will not accept us signing or selling a player directly to MU, it’s not the done thing IMO. If Henize is surplus to requirements at Old Toilet then why should we be signing him? He is in effect a MU reject and the LB position does not pose a problem along with the other areas in defence.

He’s played for United and that’s enough for me to steer clear of signing him. Free agent or not, I’d rather Rafa spent money on getting the left and right wings sorted before Rafa focuses on making any last minute tweaks.

There was no direct comparison between the Owen affair and the speculation surrounding Henize. I was merely asking another fan how they would feel if Owen signed for MU. I can’t speak for anyone else, but it would make me sick to see Owen in a MU jersey. I could also say that Owen has no obligation to Liverpool, which would be incorrect as he was our player from age 11 and he spent around six or seven seasons with the Liverpool first team, he is bound to have a connection with the club.

It’s the same with Heinze, he has an obligation to MU, he has worn that shirt for around three/four seasons now, he is a United player and he will have strong feelings for MU and this cannot be denied and I’d imagine it would be the same for Owen.

I cannot support a player who has played for our arch-rivals; I’d rather we went without Heinze, no matter how good of a player he is.

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