Liverpool FC Forum

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:41 am

LFC2007 wrote:I suggest you grow up and face reality, the reality of the British legal system. We have speech codes for a reason, to limit and prevent hate speech.

yes and here a problem has been created.

nick griffin get arrested and charged for making a speech (which was found in court to be not racist or inciteful) whilst on a daily basis muslims on the streets and in mosques are making speeches inciting racial hatred but no arrests are made.

now can you see the picture clearer, one rule for all or no rules at all. ow would you feel if yo do something and get arrested, whilst standing next to you a minority does the same thing and doesnt get arrested. no doubt you will accept it and defend their rights.

by **The Grudge** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:44 am

LFC2007 wrote:
The Grudge wrote:The problem is fella that we the British public cannot see a line between the radicals and the decent Muslim people!

All we want is Muslim Clerics to come out and condemn these acts on a widescale.We all know that the Muslim faith is big in Britain..it is huge and has clout!

So where are the words from the representatives saying that what is happening is wrong??

There are none..the Imams are not doing enough!

If Muslims want a communitty hall or a Mosque they can make plenty of noise and put a point across..When they bomb us the religious leaders say nothing!!

Also the use of Mosques in arranging terror attacks and 'brainwashing innocent men' has been proven in court!

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT US TO THINK

I'd expect you to think that perhaps they don't come out and condemn the attacks out of fear and because of the discerning line between communities that no-one attempts to bridge. I know Muslim people, they do condemn these attacks, ask Metalhead.

Metalhead is miles away and not a Muslim cleric!

As for me hating Muslims??I dislike what i know of them and sadly i can only go on what i experience in life!Maybe i am ignorant..that would be my loss.One day i would love them to prove me wrong and prove to be decent people!

As for the fear factor you sat is the reason for silence??

I really must read this Koran book..If it teaches that a man can blow himself to bits and go to heaven..that women are treated like sh.ite..that a man should have his eye removed for looking at another mans wife..that all thiefs deserve to be mutilated ..that children in their teens can be executed legally and that it is OK to bury a woman alive and stone her to death ..slowly because she wanted love that an arranged forced marriage did not provide is OK!

BUT the so called carriers of Islam at the top of the church are too 'afraid' of a so called minority to speak out against a campaign of murder and mutilation of the cruelest way?Does this book not state a mans right to life??

How the fu.ck do these people really expect to be taken seriously and respected by us..Give me some reasons?

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:45 am

Radical Muslims are trying to force their religion on us but at the same time they are their own worst enemy..Until their people relent and accept our culture rather than trying to construct a home from home they will always be outsiders sadly and always looked upon as different!

I agree.

Most Muslims it seems dont really want to intigrate into British society. Now when I went to France for a month last year, I tried my hardest to speak their language. Okay my French is pis.s poor, but aswell as it putting a smile on the face of the French, because they heard some silly Englishman trying to speak their language I know most appreciated the fact I tried to speak French.

I wouldnt go to France and expect them to speak English on my behalf if I couldnt converse with them. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

I dont think most Muslims think like that though. I would like to say that I'm not racist just merely putting my opinion accross, they can have their mosques and believe what ever they want. I just think they should try and intigrate themselves into out society more, and of course they shouldnt (fanatics) shouldnt bealoud to spout their bile about infidels in Finsberry park or the likes.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:45 am

LFC2007 wrote:I find people who defend RACISTS quite pathetic aswell by the way.

well you obviously are not understanding what i am writing. i am not defending racists, I am defending their right to have an opinion, just as i defend minorities rights to have opinions.

like i say it has to be one rule for everyone, however it seems you dont accept this, it seems you are against your own race to the point that you feel they have to accept everything a minority does, whilst criticising your own race for no real reason.

how about saying 'yes i can see your argument, maybe the muslim population could do more to build bridges, maybe they could out these extermists and then maybe this will lead to harmony'

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:49 am

peewee wrote:being muslim is not an ethnic group

and so what if he compares all muslims with bin laden, thats his choice and who are you to say he is wrong.

stop preaching, its people like you that make the situation worse, its the pc brigade that makes it worse by pandering to the minorities and allowing this situation to develop, i assume you are asking for 'one rule for all'. i agree with that, one rule for all, but sadly its not one rule for all, as in reality not everyone can play the race or religion card and be taken seriously. this is the fact and while this is happening you expect people to sit back and accept it. already people have all these new rules imposed on them, they have lost some freedom and people like you just expect them to sit back and take it. lifes not like that mate

i would have a lot more respect for you if you grew some balls and said it as it really was, next time you are in the pub with you muslim friends, tell them to speak out against the extremists, but they wont or they will be sneered at in their own community.

do you realise you are defending a group of people, the majority of who see you as filth, see you as an infidel. i know you will doubt this but get a muslim girlfriend and ask her to invite you to her house to meet her family, see how far you get, see her get killed as some form of honour or shipped of to pakistan to marry some relative to get him into britain as another drain on your taxes.

racism works both ways, you are defending the monorities right to be racist (no doubt you will say this is their culture) whilst calling your own race racist for having their own belief.

the mind boggles, i always though you came across as intelligent before but we have to disagree on this one mate, i am trying to respect your opinion but it is very blinkered

I never said being Muslim was an ethnic group, it is a religious group, hence why I mentioned both forms of legislation.

Comparing Bin Laden to my Muslim friends is not acceptable, would he say these things to their face, I very much doubt it.

It's cowardice of the highest order.

Me preaching, you're preaching the right to freedom of speech whilst not recognising the various other articles that prohibit incitement and discrimination.

You grow some balls, who are you to know what my Muslim friends say about terrorist attacks? They do condemn every attack that has caused death and injury anywhere in the world, what do you expect them to do? Set up a TV station and broadcast their message? Get real, people in the Muslim community do condemn these attacks, Imams aswell. Ask Metalhead, there are protests at suicide bombings in the middle east - big protests. It's not as if everyone in the Muslim community is compliant with it. That is what I call shirking the reality to suit your argument.

See me as filth and an infidel! That is the biggest load of bolloc,ks I've heard from you. You generalise the few to the many, it's ridiculous. Then you bring up honour killings, there are just as many who deplore that type of activity as who endorse it.
How am I defending the right of the minorities to be racist? How have honour killings got anything to do with racism? They don'tm you use it as the vaguest poissible means to justify a weak argument.

I am defending their right not to be discriminated against and freedom from incitement to religious and ethnic hatred.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:50 am

peewee wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I suggest you grow up and face reality, the reality of the British legal system. We have speech codes for a reason, to limit and prevent hate speech.

yes and here a problem has been created.

nick griffin get arrested and charged for making a speech (which was found in court to be not racist or inciteful) whilst on a daily basis muslims on the streets and in mosques are making speeches inciting racial hatred but no arrests are made.

now can you see the picture clearer, one rule for all or no rules at all. ow would you feel if yo do something and get arrested, whilst standing next to you a minority does the same thing and doesnt get arrested. no doubt you will accept it and defend their rights.

And there you miss the facts, Muslims and Imams have been prosecuted and successfully so against the legislation. But that wouldn't cross your mind would it.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:53 am

haha, never mind LFC, you just go on with your blinkerd view. maybe if you bury your head in the sand long enough all the problems will just go away, or maybe in your eyes there are no problems, 7/7 never happened, the two car bombs yesterday didnt happen, 90% of the worlds conflicts at the moment dont involve islam etc etc etc

like i say i would respect you more if you said it as it really is rather than defend the indefensible. not worth discussing it with you anymore, sadly your view of islam seems to be based on some mates you meet in the pub (obviously not good muslims so i dont see why you respect their view on islam)

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:55 am

peewee wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I find people who defend RACISTS quite pathetic aswell by the way.

well you obviously are not understanding what i am writing. i am not defending racists, I am defending their right to have an opinion, just as i defend minorities rights to have opinions.

like i say it has to be one rule for everyone, however it seems you dont accept this, it seems you are against your own race to the point that you feel they have to accept everything a minority does, whilst criticising your own race for no real reason.

how about saying 'yes i can see your argument, maybe the muslim population could do more to build bridges, maybe they could out these extermists and then maybe this will lead to harmony'

You don't even know "my race" so don't even try and pontificate to me on that one.

Can you not even see that exceptions have to be made to protect incitement to religious and ethnic hatred? It is even part of the Universal declaration of human rights.

I accept that Muslims have to do more to bridge the gap, likewise, so do we and if they're met with anything like the antipathy shown by some people on this thread then I suggest it would be very difficult, even you accept that they don't speak up because of fear.

by **The Grudge** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:57 am

LFC2007 wrote:
peewee wrote:being muslim is not an ethnic group

and so what if he compares all muslims with bin laden, thats his choice and who are you to say he is wrong.

stop preaching, its people like you that make the situation worse, its the pc brigade that makes it worse by pandering to the minorities and allowing this situation to develop, i assume you are asking for 'one rule for all'. i agree with that, one rule for all, but sadly its not one rule for all, as in reality not everyone can play the race or religion card and be taken seriously. this is the fact and while this is happening you expect people to sit back and accept it. already people have all these new rules imposed on them, they have lost some freedom and people like you just expect them to sit back and take it. lifes not like that mate

i would have a lot more respect for you if you grew some balls and said it as it really was, next time you are in the pub with you muslim friends, tell them to speak out against the extremists, but they wont or they will be sneered at in their own community.

do you realise you are defending a group of people, the majority of who see you as filth, see you as an infidel. i know you will doubt this but get a muslim girlfriend and ask her to invite you to her house to meet her family, see how far you get, see her get killed as some form of honour or shipped of to pakistan to marry some relative to get him into britain as another drain on your taxes.

racism works both ways, you are defending the monorities right to be racist (no doubt you will say this is their culture) whilst calling your own race racist for having their own belief.

the mind boggles, i always though you came across as intelligent before but we have to disagree on this one mate, i am trying to respect your opinion but it is very blinkered

I never said being Muslim was an ethnic group, it is a religious group, hence why I mentioned both forms of legislation.

Comparing Bin Laden to my Muslim friends is not acceptable, would he say these things to their face, I very much doubt it.

It's cowardice of the highest order.

Me preaching, you're preaching the right to freedom of speech whilst not recognising the various other articles that prohibit incitement and discrimination.

You grow some balls, who are you to know what my Muslim friends say about terrorist attacks? They do condemn every attack that has caused death and injury anywhere in the world, what do you expect them to do? Set up a TV station and broadcast their message? Get real, people in the Muslim community do condemn these attacks, Imams aswell. Ask Metalhead, there are protests at suicide bombings in the middle east - big protests. It's not as if everyone in the Muslim community is compliant with it. That is what I call shirking the reality to suit your argument.

See me as filth and an infidel! That is the biggest load of bolloc,ks I've heard from you. You generalise the few to the many, it's ridiculous. Then you bring up honour killings, there are just as many who deplore that type of activity as who endorse it.
How am I defending the right of the minorities to be racist? How have honour killings got anything to do with racism? They don'tm you use it as the vaguest poissible means to justify a weak argument.

I am defending their right not to be discriminated against and freedom from incitement to religious and ethnic hatred.

THEY create the hatred with their bombs lad!
If they lived here and lived normally there would be no issue atal!

If a load of Brits went to a Muslim country and started doing what they are at here they would be wiped out (probably beheaded) in no time!

Why should we tolerate them...I have to laugh.They come from countries that execute people for petty crimes,then they complain about their human rights when a copper arrests them..hes being racist.

They are very good at embracing certain parts of western culture..ie the lenient laws the parts that suit them! Its cool to take dole money and get a free education!!

Im afraid that its wrong..If you come here you should embrace our way of life totally if not stay at home!

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:58 am

peewee wrote:haha, never mind LFC, you just go on with your blinkerd view. maybe if you bury your head in the sand long enough all the problems will just go away, or maybe in your eyes there are no problems, 7/7 never happened, the two car bombs yesterday didnt happen, 90% of the worlds conflicts at the moment dont involve islam etc etc etc

like i say i would respect you more if you said it as it really is rather than defend the indefensible. not worth discussing it with you anymore, sadly your view of islam seems to be based on some mates you meet in the pub (obviously not good muslims so i dont see why you respect their view on islam)

Had you read the thread before making stupid accusations that I'm not aware of the climate of terror we live in then you may have realised that IO have repeatedly stated that Muslim communities do need to do more, Muslim communities do need to deprecate the actions of the few.

You use 7/7 for what reason exactly? Because all Muslims are liable to commit such acts, yeh right.

My view of Islam is balanced yours seems to be influenced by the few with no exception for the many, not even accepting that fear and isolation prevents many from speaking out.

And a few smiley faces 'cos I'm cool like you: :laugh:

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:01 am

The Grudge wrote:THEY create the hatred with their bombs lad!
If they lived here and lived normally there would be no issue atal!

If a load of Brits went to a Muslim country and started doing what they are at here they would be wiped out (probably beheaded) in no time!

Why should we tolerate them...I have to laugh.They come from countries that execute people for petty crimes,then they complain about their human rights when a copper arrests them..hes being racist.

They are very good at embracing certain parts of western culture..ie the lenient laws the parts that suit them! Its cool to take dole money and get a free education!!

Im afraid that its wrong..If you come here you should embrace our way of life totally if not stay at home!

You generalise "they", if you can't even make the distinction then there is little point even contributing to the thread.

"THEY" are the FEW and not the MANY.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:03 am

my view of islam is very balanced actually, maybe you dont know i lived in a muslim country for three years so i know islam very well, i also know islams very well, and i can tell you their is a massive difference between islams in the UK and islams elsewhere.

i have to say when i moved to malaysia i was expecting muslims to be sectretive and unfriendly like their uk counterparts but i was very surprised to see happy friendly people who felt no need to preach their religion. but hey they live in a maslim country so there is no need for them to try and force change.

but you will never be as cool as me, even with lots of smileys

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:14 am

peewee wrote:my view of islam is very balanced actually, maybe you dont know i lived in a muslim country for three years so i know islam very well, i also know islams very well, and i can tell you their is a massive difference between islams in the UK and islams elsewhere.

i have to say when i moved to malaysia i was expecting muslims to be sectretive and unfriendly like their uk counterparts but i was very surprised to see happy friendly people who felt no need to preach their religion. but hey they live in a maslim country so there is no need for them to try and force change.

but you will never be as cool as me, even with lots of smileys

I've friends in a Muslim country, and been to a few in the past and I'm not going to continue arguing. We will never agree on some things, such is life.

The points we agree on are as follows:

LFC2007 and Peewee's LFC newkit Convention of Racial and Religious rights:

1) Muslims in Britain need to do more to integrate into society.

2) Muslims in Britain need to conform to our customs.

3) Incitement to religious or ethnic hatred applies both ways; hence why Muslims in Britain who protested against the Danish cartoons were prosecuted, as have a couple of radical Imams.

4) All Muslims in Britain are not protecting or endorsing extremism, they do condemn attacks, I've spoken to a few.

5) Fear may play a part in Muslims not being as outspoken against these attacks as others are, even you accept this.

6) The onus on integrating is predominantly on the Muslim communities, but other communities must be accomodating in trying to increase community closeness.

7) Your smileys are better than mine.

8) You have a nice bike, but I have a cbr600rr with a yoshimura exhaust and can ride on smooth roads.

Undersigned: LFC2007

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:08 am

haha, bangkok roads are smooth mate, its just there are no real road rules here, well there are but everyone ignores them.

to be fair the infrastructure here is fine, its just people ignorance when driving that causes the problems on the roads, and the polices lack of enforcemnt of the laws.

but in view of this when i find an empty stretch i can open my bike up without fear from some hidden speed camera or policeman waiting around the next bend :;):

the rest of your post i am in agreement with, however number 2, i dont think they should lose all their customs, far from it, i think they should keep their customs but should be prepared to adhere to their hosts customs also, they should not expect their host to change to suit them.

just as an example here on my thoughts, if you came to my house to stay and then complained about my food, my furniture, my garden, my beliefs, my toilet paper etc etc etc i would tell you to f*ck off to someone elses house that fitted in with your tastes, thats not racism mate, thats just defending what is mine. however if you came to my house and accepted what i was offering you and introuduced me to your culture i will welcome you with open arms

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:15 am

The way things are going, there's going to be a World of trouble before long, and I can seriously see a rise in skinhead attacks on Muslim communities.

The simple fact about Britain is: "We'll take something for so long, then you've shot it.

And the way these f*cking loons keep behaving, they're going to get themselves and their innocent families butchered.

I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, but if these silly b*stards keep on, they'll end up wishing they'd stayed in their 3rd-World sh*tholes.

Things WILL change. The racists won't keep sitting on their hands when their families and friends are getting murdered all because a bunch of thick tw*ts think it's rightious.

Listen up, you extremist c*nts - stop acting like retards before you get the royal kick-in you so thoroughly deserve.

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