Liverpool FC Forum

LFC2007 wrote:

The Grudge wrote:Its people like you who say'Its not affecting me'that our the problem.People need to speak out and make the government take action and weed the rats out!

You clearly haven't been reading this thread, you haven't a fecking clue mate.

They were British, just as British as you are. If you're saying that because their grandparents emigrated here in the 50's they are not British and hence not homegrown then go feck yerself, that is as right wing as they come.

There is probably someone in your bloodline who is an immigrant from a far away country, so that is no excuse whatsoever.

The families of these homegrown terrorists do not want to kill people, they want peace just as much as you or me. It is radical groups within communities that have grown over the past 6/7 years that lure these people to terrorism, it has NOTHING to do with their parents country of origin.

redtrader74 wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

redtrader74 wrote:I know the community that bred most of the terror suspects very well, in the main they do not integrate into society, certain classes within them will, but they inherently live a different way in Pakistan.

They assimilate into society, they integrate into society within the bounds of their own religious beliefs and standard of their community

If these bounds are at the opposite spectrum of the British society as a whole, how can you say they integrate? As i said they only integrated as far as needs forced, eg had to be educated, had to work.

You think they integrate as much as any other youth of ethnic origin, i can tell you first hand you are incorrect, my own ethnic origin, although coming to the country at the same time, are far more intregrated into  British society, as are many others, the Chinese, West Indians, Jewish etc.

I think you agree but are finding it hard to say so

I don't agree, if you're telling me you know the community that bred the 7/7 bombers then OK you may have a point. However, within that community, close friends and work colleagues of the 7/7 bombers gave several interviews showing clearly that they had integrated into society and were considered no more or no less as assimilated as their other friend of the same ethnic denomination.

They were so shocked that they could do these things on that very basis, that they were no less part of the community than most of their fellow Muslim friends.

They integrate within the standard of their community, if that whole community e.g. the Muslim community of Beeston has not integrated fully into that town then the standard of integration is relative to that community. The standard of integration for these terrorists is the equivalent of what the same person of the same age, of the same religious (yet not extremist) beliefs would be, and by that standard - on the admission of people close to them - was no different to what they would go by - hence why they were so shocked when they found out who perpetrated the attacks.

and as you said that integration is very low, therefore hardly integration at all, As i said they integrated as much as they needed to, to survive, what it seems in a round about fashion you are saying. Like i said i think you agree.

My major issue with the homegrown thing, is how it is portrayed in the media, a lot of;

'how did this happen',

'how did we allow it',

'where did we let them down',

'what did we do wrong', '

a racist society has made them an underclass'.

My point is that if you have a section of the community who, in the majority, refuse to join in, hold the indignous population in contempt, whose belief sysytem is far more important than nation or fellow man, then don't blame yourself when things go wrong, blame them, because at no stage were they one of us.

Well said fella!!

redtrader74 wrote:and as you said that integration is very low, therefore hardly integration at all, As i said they integrated as much as they needed to, to survive, what it seems in a round about fashion you are saying. Like i said i think you agree.

My major issue with the homegrown thing, is how it is portrayed in the media, a lot of;

'how did this happen',

'how did we allow it',

'where did we let them down',

'what did we do wrong', '

a racist society has made them an underclass'.

My point is that if you have a section of the community who, in the majority, refuse to join in, hold the indignous population in contempt, whose belief sysytem is far more important than nation or fellow man, then don't blame yourself when things go wrong, blame them, because at no stage were they one of us.

The Grudge wrote:Then how is it that all their families are from Afganistan,Pakistan or Iran etc??

Can you see the link to the middle east??
And i do blame their families as well,they obviously bring them up with the wrong morals.

As for the decent Muslims??Yet again after 2 attemped terrorist attacks and one that very nearly succeeded where are their representatives??

YET AGAIN they are silent and have not condemned their fellow people!

To any Britishman or woman their silence speaks a million words.

Kharhaz wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

Kharhaz wrote:I agree with the argument that immigrants do make this country better. Close the borders and concentrate on who is here.

You contadict yourself in the same post, immigration is ok but close our borders - work that one out! 

Immigrants do make a differance but its becoming to dangerous to let just anyone through now. Contradiction in terms ? maybe, but im not wrong, there are too many extremists having a bigger say.

The Grudge wrote:They were born in Leeds but their scumbag families came from the middle East!

LFC2007 wrote:

The Grudge wrote:They were born in Leeds but their scumbag families came from the middle East!

And what if one of your ancestors from two centuries ago was from the middle east? Does that make you a scumbag too?

It's not their families who preach the radical ideology, it's groups within the Muslim community who lure the younger muslims into it using our foreign policy as justification.

As redtrader said, you appear to be anti-immigrant not just anti-extremist.

LFC2007 wrote:

The Grudge wrote:They were born in Leeds but their scumbag families came from the middle East!

And what if one of your ancestors from two centuries ago was from the middle east? Does that make you a scumbag too?

It's not their families who preach the radical ideology, it's groups within the Muslim community who lure the younger muslims into it using our foreign policy as justification.

As redtrader said, you appear to be anti-immigrant not just anti-extremist.

The Grudge wrote:Im sorry but i am not racist..if i am racist its not through choice! They have made me this way.

...................................................................................

Our forefathers never died in Flanders for Britain to be overrun with brown rats!

LFC2007 wrote:

The Grudge wrote:Im sorry but i am not racist..if i am racist its not through choice! They have made me this way.

...................................................................................

Our forefathers never died in Flanders for Britain to be overrun with brown rats!

Enough said.

The Grudge wrote:I owe Muslims nothing.They do not deserve respect!Respect needs earned in every community...the silent faith is getting noisy and we need to be on our gaurd!

Again you generalise the wider Muslim community with the few Muslim extremists that exist in our country.

You are a racist it's as simple as that, I have Muslim friends who come down the pub with me, are they "brown rats"?

Come and tell them to their face.