Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:02 am

Basically, what it comes down to in my humble opinion (not being an expert on politics) is that blowing yourself and innocent people up in the name of any god is wrong. Its that simple.

Saying murdering someone based on words they have written is wrong.

It should be that simple people. Dont blow yourself up killing people i the name of god and its sweet.

by **metalhead** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:06 pm

Where did I ever say that the U.S are invading "muslim" land, in any of my post? Where did I ever say that I'm against the western culture, when i specifically said that I'm just against The U.S government or any government that is creating chaos in the region. Did I ever say that the American or European culture is destroying my country or creating so many conflicts in the region? I'm not against any culture at all, infact i respect every single culture there is. Plus your saying im offering only arab's perspective, well your doing the samething, offering your government's perspective!

I'm not going to deny what happened to U.S troops in 1983, it was before Hizballah became officially a party in lebanon (which became official in 1985). I don't know much about it because I wasn't even born yet. I want to know how you define a terrorist?

redtrader, Again and Again, I will tell you that there HAVE BEEN protests! Alot of protests! There have been so many protests in Iraq for the kurds joining with other Iraqis, and even so many symapthies during the Saddam trials. The new Iraq government have given Kurds the freedom to speak. They are muslims like everyone else, and human beings like everyone else. Also in Lebanon there was a huge protest to stop the conflict between muslims that we currently have right now. Plus why do you generalize saying "muslim" point of view? its ARAB's point of view, both muslims and non-muslims. I'm sorry lfc2007 and redtrader for generalizing saying Western point of view in some of my posts, I'll do my best specifiying

As for turkey, I don't know, you would ask Fenerbache ( a member in the forum) he will tell you more.

Your not reading my post well, I told you Al-Jazeera is biased because it offers only one point of view, which is the ARAB point of view, but these days all news media are biased.

it maybe anti-american or anti-european or just biased, but it does offer the arab view point

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:14 pm

metalhead wrote:Where did I ever say that the U.S are invading "muslim" land, in any of my post? Where did I ever say that I'm against the western culture, when i specifically said that I'm just against The U.S government or any government that is creating chaos in the region. Did I ever say that the American or European culture is destroying my country or creating so many conflicts in the region? I'm not against any culture at all, infact i respect every single culture there is. Plus your saying im offering only arab's perspective, well your doing the samething, offering your government's perspective!

I'm not going to deny what happened to U.S troops in 1983, it was before Hizballah became officially a party in lebanon (which became official in 1985). I don't know much about it because I wasn't even born yet. I want to know how you define a terrorist?

I actually said "and more specifically PURORESU", hence why I did not address each question with the preface of: "Metalhead......."

I'm not offering my Government's perspective, do you think my government's perspective is that the invasion of Iraq was wrong? I don't think so Metalhead.

Puroresu can accuse the U.S. of meddling just as much as I can argue that Iran are meddling - not just in middle-eastern affairs but affairs around the world.

As for what you (Metalhead) say about Hezbollah, you and Puroresu may deny so vehemently that they are not or do not contain terrorist FACTIONS. But the reality is that in the early 1980's FACTIONS from what is the modern day Hezbollah political movement killed over 200 U.S. troops.

I define specifically that as the actions of terrorists, I can also say that what is the political movement and front of Hezbollah also contains some militant factions. Was it right for Hezbollah to fire rockets from towns and villages in Lebanon? The response form Israel was disproportionate and unrestrained but what do you do when thousands of rockets are being fired with no specific aim into Israeli land killing innocent people? You reply by targeting the areas they came from - areas which are not allowed under U.N. law - towns and villages where Hezbollah should not have been.

I consider what Hezbollah did then as the actions of terrorists, likewise, I consider the response from Israel similar to that of Hezbollah yet worse - but who initiated the attacks - Hezbollah. You don't let the attacks continue, you have to eliminate wherever the rockets were fired from, you can't expect Israel to do nothing when thousands of Katyusha rockets are being fired with no target into Israeli settlements. Do you not consider these actions, the initiator being Hezbollah, the actions of a terrorist group?
I'm not excusing the vastly disproportionate response by Israel, but what do you do when so many rockets are continually being fired at your country?

p.s.Sabre is on the prowl... I sense a post coming along...."in Spain....."

by **The Grudge** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:48 pm

I think you lot should all shut the fu.ck up!

Its blatently obvious the difference of opinions are as far apart as balck and white!To some people religion is their life and a passion.Personally i think its all a load of bull made up for weak people te seek solice and relieve thier conscience....but thats another matter!!

Anyway its plain to see that this debate is going round in circles and the parties involved will NEVER accept eachothers veiws.
You guys think you are being intelligent staing'facts' and talking like politicians!
YOU ARE NOT! YOU ARE SIMPLY HIGHLIGHTING TO ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN THE REASON THERE IS SO MUCH TROUBLE IN THE WORLD.

Its people like you lot that are so blinkered to their own way of thinking that breed the hate that terrorist and the like thrive off!

Do yourselves a favour and agree to disagree for fu.cks sake please!

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:53 pm

What a sh!t post, we are debating issues that are important. If you don't want to be part of it then feck off and comb your hair.

by **destro** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:58 pm

LFC2007 wrote:If you don't want to be part of then feck off and comb your hair.

It took 14 pages to get to the most interesting post

by **metalhead** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:18 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
metalhead wrote:Where did I ever say that the U.S are invading "muslim" land, in any of my post? Where did I ever say that I'm against the western culture, when i specifically said that I'm just against The U.S government or any government that is creating chaos in the region. Did I ever say that the American or European culture is destroying my country or creating so many conflicts in the region? I'm not against any culture at all, infact i respect every single culture there is. Plus your saying im offering only arab's perspective, well your doing the samething, offering your government's perspective!

I'm not going to deny what happened to U.S troops in 1983, it was before Hizballah became officially a party in lebanon (which became official in 1985). I don't know much about it because I wasn't even born yet. I want to know how you define a terrorist?

I actually said "and more specifically PURORESU", hence why I did not address each question with the preface of: "Metalhead......."

I'm not offering my Government's perspective, do you think my government's perspective is that the invasion of Iraq was wrong? I don't think so Metalhead.

Puroresu can accuse the U.S. of meddling just as much as I can argue that Iran are meddling - not just in middle-eastern affairs but affairs around the world.

As for what you (Metalhead) say about Hezbollah, you and Puroresu may deny so vehemently that they are not or do not contain terrorist FACTIONS. But the reality is that in the early 1980's FACTIONS from what is the modern day Hezbollah political movement killed over 200 U.S. troops.

I define specifically that as the actions of terrorists, I can also say that what is the political movement and front of Hezbollah also contains some militant factions. Was it right for Hezbollah to fire rockets from towns and villages in Lebanon? The response form Israel was disproportionate and unrestrained but what do you do when thousands of rockets are being fired with no specific aim into Israeli land killing innocent people? You reply by targeting the areas they came from - areas which are not allowed under U.N. law - towns and villages where Hezbollah should not have been.

I consider what Hezbollah did then as the actions of terrorists, likewise, I consider the response from Israel similar to that of Hezbollah yet worse - but who initiated the attacks - Hezbollah. You don't let the attacks continue, you have to eliminate wherever the rockets were fired from, you can't expect Israel to do nothing when thousands of Katyusha rockets are being fired with no target into Israeli settlements. Do you not consider these actions, the initiator being Hezbollah, the actions of a terrorist group?
I'm not excusing the vastly disproportionate response by Israel, but what do you do when so many rockets are continually being fired at your country?

p.s.Sabre is on the prowl... I sense a post coming along...."in Spain....."

First of all, don't these factions have right to fight any occupants (i.e foreign soldiers) in the country? the French did this in WW2 against Nazil troops IN France, but where they terrorists? I mean its resistance against invasion, they weren't a threat to the U.S or any other foreign government OUTSIDE the country. These FACTIONS did what they had to do because they thought this was oppression, 1982 was the Israeli invasion, also lebanon was in civil war. When this happened in 1983, the U.S withdrew their forces. Hizballah of 1985 is different than Hizballah right now, Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah became Hizballah leader in 1992, so it basically changed.

Second of all, people in Towns, Villages and cities in the south of Lebanon support Hizballah, mostly the fighters are from these area, born and raised there. Its hard to say Hizballah are not allowed to be there in these villages and towns, when mostly locals are fighting with hizballah. Plus it was Israel who started this, maybe not directly, but indirectly by breaking lebanese airspace (who they are continuely doing so right now) or they had troops patrolling into lebanese lands. Then the kidnapping happened, you may say it was unjustified, but I think it was for a cause, to bring back lebanese prisoners who were captured 22 years ago! As you said Israel respone was unjustified, they started air-raiding, Hizballah told them to stop or they will hit back by katyusha rockets, but Israel didn't stop and they destroyed all our infrastructure killing innocent people on the way. Also, would you have thought that IF hizballah have never shot a single rocket into israel, the israel government would have stopped the war? I mean over 95% of the Israel population where behind last year's war, but when Hizballah started firing rockets into israel, The people felt insecure, they felt scared, and I feel for them because this is war! so the poll ratings for the war decreased, to an extent when Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah said he will hit Tel Aviv, if israel don't stop, that the israelians made protests to end this. Why is that? the protests against the government is for us? to stop the government from killing innocent lebanese children? No, they were in fear, thats normal. Basically, I think, I answered your question, on why hizballah fired these rockets, its self-defence.

by **metalhead** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:19 pm

LFC2007 wrote:What a sh!t post, we are debating issues that are important. If you don't want to be part of it then feck off and comb your hair.

by **The Grudge** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:42 pm

Metalhead..with reading your posts over a year or two i thought you had a brain!
I was mistaken mate..you are as big of a fool as the idiots you fight with and if not more so beacuse in subtle educated ways you fuel the fire of hate!It really looks like at times that your main objective is to put across ideals that others may not want to taste!

You coat your veiws with reason(in your mind) but to us your views are so close to the bone that a wink would make an earthquake..You are smart but not very clever,not travelled,intelligent but not streetwise!

If you have any balls you will get yourself off here and join the crusade to be killed,rather than fill British bandwidth with anti west cr@p you pathetic little brown nerd!

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:46 pm

metalhead wrote:First of all, don't these factions have right to fight any occupants (i.e foreign soldiers) in the country? the French did this in WW2 against Nazil troops IN France, but where they terrorists? I mean its resistance against invasion, they weren't a threat to the U.S or any other foreign government OUTSIDE the country. These FACTIONS did what they had to do because they thought this was oppression, 1982 was the Israeli invasion, also lebanon was in civil war. When this happened in 1983, the U.S withdrew their forces. Hizballah of 1985 is different than Hizballah right now, Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah became Hizballah leader in 1992, so it basically changed.

Second of all, people in Towns, Villages and cities in the south of Lebanon support Hizballah, mostly the fighters are from these area, born and raised there. Its hard to say Hizballah are not allowed to be there in these villages and towns, when mostly locals are fighting with hizballah. Plus it was Israel who started this, maybe not directly, but indirectly by breaking lebanese airspace (who they are continuely doing so right now) or they had troops patrolling into lebanese lands. Then the kidnapping happened, you may say it was unjustified, but I think it was for a cause, to bring back lebanese prisoners who were captured 22 years ago! As you said Israel respone was unjustified, they started air-raiding, Hizballah told them to stop or they will hit back by katyusha rockets, but Israel didn't stop and they destroyed all our infrastructure killing innocent people on the way. Also, would you have thought that IF hizballah have never shot a single rocket into israel, the israel government would have stopped the war? I mean over 95% of the Israel population where behind last year's war, but when Hizballah started firing rockets into israel, The people felt insecure, they felt scared, and I feel for them because this is war! so the poll ratings for the war decreased, to an extent when Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah said he will hit Tel Aviv, if israel don't stop, that the israelians made protests to end this. Why is that? the protests against the government is for us? to stop the government from killing innocent lebanese children? No, they were in fear, thats normal. Basically, I think, I answered your question, on why hizballah fired these rockets, its self-defence.

Your comparison to WW2 is ridiculous, you are comparing the actions of a crazed dictator intent on world domination with the actions of who exactly? Israel? The U.S.? The U.S. weren't occupying Lebanon and the attacks were on a multimnational peacekeeping force, it's just a silly comparison.

The comparison is stupid, so stupid I can't believe I'm even having to respond to it.

These factions killed over 200 U.S. troops sent on a PEACEKEEPING mission, but you call this justified resistance, resistance to what? They were never occupiers. Peacekeepers analogous to Nazi invaders? Get real mate.

You say Hezbollah are from these towns and villages, it is against U.N. law to do what they did.

It may have started with Israel entering Lebanese airspace, but is launching Katyusha rockets or dragging up a 22 year old dispute over captured soldiers a sensible way to respond?

Israel should never have responded in the way they did, it's unacceptable and I have no support for Israel whatsoever on that basis - but you cannot excuse the initial actions of Hezbollah in firing gratuitously over the border with no aim other than to injure and kill as many people as possible. I don't see how you consider it self defence when the initial aggressor was Hezbollah, Israel were right to try and respond by targeting missile bases - unfortunately some of these missile bases were located in villages which is against U.N. law and is why so many more people were killed. Isarel went way over the top in their response and for that they should be reprimanded, but you cannot argue that Hezbollah were right to suddenly start firing rockets at civilians in Israel.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:49 pm

The Grudge wrote:Metalhead..with reading your posts over a year or two i thought you had a brain!
I was mistaken mate..you are as big of a fool as the idiots you fight with and if not more so beacuse in subtle educated ways you fuel the fire of hate!It really looks like at times that your main objective is to put across ideals that others may not want to taste!

You coat your veiws with reason(in your mind) but to us your views are so close to the bone that a wink would make an earthquake..You are smart but not very clever,not travelled,intelligent but not streetwise!

If you have any balls you will get yourself off here and join the crusade to be killed,rather than fill British bandwidth with anti west cr@p you pathetic little brown nerd!

What are you on about?? What purpose does that post serve other than to aggravate?

by **redtrader74** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 pm

The Grudge wrote:Metalhead..with reading your posts over a year or two i thought you had a brain!
I was mistaken mate..you are as big of a fool as the idiots you fight with and if not more so beacuse in subtle educated ways you fuel the fire of hate!It really looks like at times that your main objective is to put across ideals that others may not want to taste!

You coat your veiws with reason(in your mind) but to us your views are so close to the bone that a wink would make an earthquake..You are smart but not very clever,not travelled,intelligent but not streetwise!

If you have any balls you will get yourself off here and join the crusade to be killed,rather than fill British bandwidth with anti west cr@p you pathetic little brown nerd!

Idiot, if you cannot offer anything intelligent to the debate then go away and finish shaving the palms of your hands.

by **shanks72** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:34 am

destro wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:If you don't want to be part of then feck off and comb your hair.

It took 14 pages to get to the most interesting post

by **The Grudge** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:43 am

If i comb my hair it is insignificant!
As insignificant as your shallow little digs about territory and religion on an internet forum about LFC!

Listen lads all i can say is that from when the world kicked off and played football with man there have been many fouls and the referees are usually unable to control the play!
There has been,is and always will be war and hate!

In my opinion football is a getaway from the reality of sh'ite like that and in a way football and LFC are more important to me than any white boy,nigga,muslim or whatever.

Choose your labels carefully guys and whern ya placed them make sure its in the right place!

by **LFC2007** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:46 am

What planet are you on?, this is not the football part of the forum it is the "General chat forum"- hence its name .

You are the twa,t for coming on here and moaning about what we have to say, shallow little digs?

What are you on about son?, your arguments are a joke.

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