Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Manhattan Project** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:32 pm

I consider Nazir Ahmed, the House of Lords member who is complaining about this honour, a traitor.

He appears to believe that it’s Sir Salman Rushdie who is responsible for the trouble caused by “The Satanic Verses”, and that his knighthood threatens social cohesion.

I take a different approach and think that it’s the absurdly violent reaction by elements inside the Islamic world who cause the problems by reacting to criticism with the threat of deadly force.

It was demonstrated with the murder of Theo Van Gogh, the stabbing and beating of Ettore Capriolo (the Italian translator of “The Satanic Verses”, the shooting of William Nygaard (the Norwegian publisher of the book), the fatal stabbing of Hitoshi Igarashi (the Japanese translator), and the debacle relating to the reaction over the Danish cartoons (which were intended to prove that criticism of Islam will result in a violent reaction).

Nazir Ahmed is an apologist for violent religious extremists who instead of responding to Sir Salman’s points with a rational reasonable critique based on logical arguments, choose to issue death threats and even condone suicide bombings. He seems to think that a society can only maintain cohesion if one segment holds a gun to the head of the others, and threatens to pull the trigger if they are criticised or offended in even the slightest degree.

Essentially, he and those who agree with him are saying that society should be shaped according to the demands of violent religious bigots in Pakistan and Iran and their supporters around the globe who apparently believe that murder and violence is an acceptable method of responding to what in their minds constitutes an “insult” to their religious ideology.

by **puroresu** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:22 pm

As a muslim I have no time for rushdie. He knew the book would cause such a stir but still did it anyway. I dont care about his knighthood either as I dont believe in any of these awards and they mean nothing to me. Pakistan & Iran need to fix up. They are making a big stir about this knighthood to rushdie yet they didnt do nothing when Britian invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Plan stupidity.

As for Nazir Ahmed. Please,this guy does not care about Islam and he is against political Islam. To me he just a face in the system. His what Malcolm X called a "House Nigga"

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:41 pm

puroresu wrote:They are making a big stir about this knighthood to rushdie yet they didnt do nothing when Britian invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Plan stupidity.

What would you expect Pakistan and Iran to do?

by **112-1077774096** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:53 pm

well he obvioulsy believes that the invasion in iraq and afghanistan where based on religion and believes that the muslim world should defend them (it obvioulsy wasnt an attack on islam)

and babu, didnt mean to put you on the spot mate but surely 19 years is long enough, a couple more years wont make any differnce, and i am sure his knighthood wasnt given for writing this book, more for his other work)

by **shanks72** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:40 am

Before I read this thread I thought he shouldn't have been given a knighthood because of the trouble it would cause from muslim extremists.
I still think it hasn't helped foreign relations...

However...I now tend to agree with you, dawson and everyone else who says 'why shouldn't we knight who we want to and what's it got to do with anyone else'.

Tbh I've never read his book and don't know what he's been knighted for....(although charity work etc has been mentioned).

So I'll just agree with the rest of yous as I'm sure you know best

by **noseybonk** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:48 am

screw these horrid monkey brained dress wearing bearded stinkin towel on me head dog shi4te
f))ckwits. In a few years we'll austwitz the fu3kers anyway.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:57 am

I dont know much about the works of Rushtie, but I do know this, I studied Islam way back when, when I was a kid and they are very tolerant, it just seems that nowadays, it doesnt take much to insult the middle eastern religions, call a corner shop owner a :censored:

and then the flags are burned and the effifies come out ! People true to islam keep very quite about things because mostly there religion isnt insulted, just a select few of people under 40 decide that its a case for war. Is it too late to knight Roy "Chubby" Brown??

by **The Manhattan Project** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:01 am

screw these horrid monkey brained dress wearing bearded stinkin towel on me head dog shi4te
f))ckwits. In a few years we'll austwitz the fu3kers anyway.

Idiot.

by **puroresu** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:29 am

LFC2007 wrote:
puroresu wrote:They are making a big stir about this knighthood to rushdie yet they didnt do nothing when Britian invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Plan stupidity.

What would you expect Pakistan and Iran to do?

Not just Pakistan and Iran but the Islamic world could of stopped both invasions. These invasions start from bases in the Muslim world and if there Arab world had any leaders with backbone they wouldnt of allowed this to happen. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and should again with sincere leadership instead of a puppet dictator there forces should be to protect there neigbours in Afghanistan.

And no I dont believe these invasions were based on some sort of christian crusade. Its irrelevant what are the reasons behind them as no reason can be justified for the Islamic world to just sit back and watch Muslim lands become occupied bringing nothing but misery. However I am not surprised as the Islamic world is ruled by western supported despots and dictators. Until we banish them to the dustbin of history and forget about the idea of seperate nation states things will not change.

It wasnt my aim to change the toic of discussion. I was just pointing out the stupidity of Iran and Pakistan who seem to priortise the Salman Rushdie knighthood above more serious issues.

by **puroresu** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:33 am

Kharhaz wrote:I dont know much about the works of Rushtie, but I do know this, I studied Islam way back when, when I was a kid and they are very tolerant, it just seems that nowadays, it doesnt take much to insult the middle eastern religions, call a corner shop owner a and then the flags are burned and the effifies come out ! People true to islam keep very quite about things because mostly there religion isnt insulted, just a select few of people under 40 decide that its a case for war. Is it too late to knight Roy "Chubby" Brown??

we are tolerant. If people want to criticise Islam then thats fine. The cartoon issue was too far as again it was done knowing the response it would cause. There was no need for it and to try and justify it as freedom of expression made no sense.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:38 am

Religion is being used far too much these days as a reason why terrorism is acceptable. There is no reason for terrorism, these people are using the ignorant to explain why suicide bombings are for gods doing. NO IT ISNT! brainwashing springs to mind here. Whatever Rushdie said is purely his own seeings and sayings, he has spoken about what hes seen and expressing his views, but nowadays it doesnt matter, give anything against islam and the ignorant see it as an excuse to cause murder. Islam is more tolerant, its just that the few who really do follow it keep silent.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:41 am

puroresu wrote:Not just Pakistan and Iran but the Islamic world could of stopped both invasions. These invasions start from bases in the Muslim world and if there Arab world had any leaders with backbone they wouldnt of allowed this to happen. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and should again with sincere leadership instead of a puppet dictator there forces should be to protect there neigbours in Afghanistan.

I agree with you that there are more pressing issues over the Salman Rushdie fiasco. What you say in the quoted part, I don't understand partly because it doesn't make clear sense.

I don't see how the Islamic world could have stopped the invasions. Presumably you see the invasions as an attack on Islam then? It's not a view I hold and it's a worrying view if you do see it like that.

The bit about Pakistan having nuclear weapons... makes no sense to me

They are an ally of the U.S.. Do you think Pakistan should help protect Taliban extremists? Is that what you are saying?

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:47 am

puroresu wrote:we are tolerant. If people want to criticise Islam then thats fine. The cartoon issue was too far as again it was done knowing the response it would cause. There was no need for it and to try and justify it as freedom of expression made no sense.

I agree with you when you say there was no need for it and it was an ignorant and stupid thing to do. However, when the BBC broadcast Jesus as being black in Jerry Springer the Opera, there were also protests, but far more tolerant protests. When those cartoons were printed the whole of the Western world was condemned and people took to the streets with banners saying "death to Europe", "Europe will pay in blood" and so on..

That is what is unacceptable. The reaction seems to be almost always over the top and a generalisation occurs whereby everyone who represents western culture is targeted.

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:09 am

,mmmm freedom of expression, lets look at that for a moment, we are expected to respect a religion that we have no need to respect or no interest in, we are expected to keep our thoughts to ourselves and not express ourselves even in a humourous way, yet no doubt we are expected to respect the muslim worlds freedom of expression.

listen we owe nothing to islam, yes we have to respect that it is a religion, but to say we cant discuss it in whatever terms we want is wrong. to say we cant make jokes about it is wrong. to kill people and burn buildings because someone drew a cartoon is wrong.

this is the problem, the people who get upset about these things (whilst at the same time calling christians infidels and devils) take it too far, when did you last see a catholic burn an embassy because someone drew a picture of god? when did you last see a jew burn an embassy for being called tight?

the sad things is many good muslims are being tarred because of the extremist muslims, and as rank and file muslims you should be standing up more and denouncing the extremists, show the world you are not the same, show the world you dont agree with their actions (just like many christians do over the war in iraq).

but the sad fact is that the majority of conflicts in the world at the moment involve islam so people cant be blamed for looking at islam in a bad light.

yes other religions get involved in attrocities, teh idiot in america recently on the gun rampage, is he different to a suicide bomber? well yes he is in my opinion as it wasnt done for religion, it wasnt done as a political statement.

but religion has a lot to answer for, any religion, not just islam, it is brainwashing and is the cause of just as many problems as it is for good causes.

i have seen muslims reactions to some actions, i lived in malaysia at the time of the london bombings and people were serioulsy upset about it, they were all wanting to say sorry to me, but sadly if the same person who was upset was put in front of someone who dosent know better they would be looked at as being a terrorist.

very sad state of affairs, i just think the extremists need to chill out

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:22 am

peewee wrote:,mmmm freedom of expression, lets look at that for a moment, we are expected to respect a religion that we have no need to respect or no interest in, we are expected to keep our thoughts to ourselves and not express ourselves even in a humourous way, yet no doubt we are expected to respect the muslim worlds freedom of expression.

listen we owe nothing to islam, yes we have to respect that it is a religion, but to say we cant discuss it in whatever terms we want is wrong. to say we cant make jokes about it is wrong. to kill people and burn buildings because someone drew a cartoon is wrong.

this is the problem, the people who get upset about these things (whilst at the same time calling christians infidels and devils) take it too far, when did you last see a catholic burn an embassy because someone drew a picture of god? when did you last see a jew burn an embassy for being called tight?

the sad things is many good muslims are being tarred because of the extremist muslims, and as rank and file muslims you should be standing up more and denouncing the extremists, show the world you are not the same, show the world you dont agree with their actions (just like many christians do over the war in iraq).

but the sad fact is that the majority of conflicts in the world at the moment involve islam so people cant be blamed for looking at islam in a bad light.

yes other religions get involved in attrocities, teh idiot in america recently on the gun rampage, is he different to a suicide bomber? well yes he is in my opinion as it wasnt done for religion, it wasnt done as a political statement.

but religion has a lot to answer for, any religion, not just islam, it is brainwashing and is the cause of just as many problems as it is for good causes.

i have seen muslims reactions to some actions, i lived in malaysia at the time of the london bombings and people were serioulsy upset about it, they were all wanting to say sorry to me, but sadly if the same person who was upset was put in front of someone who dosent know better they would be looked at as being a terrorist.

very sad state of affairs, i just think the extremists need to chill out

Agree 100%, Its the people who are quiet who have the biggest say in what goes on. But its the people who are quiet who have the most to lose, its a catch 20 situation I guess.

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