Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:34 am

I know none of us know as of yet, it's too early to say, La Liga hasn't finished yet, it's only rumour etc etc but I'm asking a hypothetical question here, so if you want to deal in cast-iron facts, leave the thread alone now, it's not for you.

Right, what if the players we are going to sign this Summer are the likes of Darren Bent, Yossi Benayoun, Matt Taylor, Curtis Davis, Roy Carroll etc etc. What if there isn't going to be enough money to buy real superstars. Will it mean we are struggling to finish even in the top four, or will it mean that we are replacing the likes of Gonzales, Zenden, Fowler, (at this stage of his career obviously) with better players. Is it concieveable that if we are to stick with people who are proven Premiership performers and not go down the "star" route (even if the decision is forced upon us by lack of funds) that we may end up a better team than last season?

My feeling is that it is possible but we would be unlikely to improve enough to win the title. If we are to release Fowler, then for sure I can go Bent as a straight swap, with Benayoun for Gonzales/Zenden. Equally, a run of the mill right back to cover Finnan would do, as would an experienced and cheap goalie to replace that other bloke who's name escapes me right now. Also a young and non-compromising centre half is needed, and Curtis Davis would do for me. If Bellamy is to be sold off though, surely we need an absolute top class replacement.

If the likes of those which are currently being talked about really are the limit of our transfer aspirations, I'm afraid to say our days of winning the Premiership are oover for the forseeable future. Lets just hope they're not.

by **Sabre** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:41 am

If that was the case, and I don't find it likely, then I'd think that the future of Liverpool football club must walk on, with or without money.

I've seen how the first Rafa season he made a 4th in the league, and two thirds last two seasons.

Since we're keeping the key players I'd take that achievement for granted, but I'd expect less drop of points if we have a deeper squad that doesn't make to play us with Carrager as Holding midfielder one match, or Zenden as the replacement of Alonso in rotations. So I'd expect a slight improvement of the team we have rather than a massive improvement.

That will be enough to win the title? well, if it's true that the main goal of the season will be the league, then we won't rest key players in order for instance, get a first place in the CL group rather than a second. And that will be points for sure, despite it means we're second in the CL group. So I think we would be closer to win the league, both because it's now a main goal, and because the improvement of the squad would be slight, but improvement nonetheless. Manchester for instance has proven this season that the gap existing between Chelsea and other top clubs wasn't as huge as it seemed.

by **tubby** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:42 am

If these are the best players we can muster up then we can simply forget about the Premiership and Rafa will no doubt leave next after next season.

But i doubt this is the best we can muster bigmick becasue even though we dont know a round figue on what he will spend im sure Rafa has come outright and told them look this is what I need are you going to give it to me? And he came out of meeting happy right? So I dont see a problem.

by **dawson99** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:42 am

good post and cant argue with a single point. Bent and enayoun would be good for a newcastle/bolton/spurs but to get to that next level you have to have the absoltue quality. No poin going in a sideways direction if you ask me, bent especially.

Benayoun is an interesting one tho as i do rate him as a player but would only want him for a nominal fee as we need to be looking at the world class buys to up the entire team

by **Red Dotty** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:47 am

I do not think that they are the sort of players we should be aming to buy, as far as i am concerned they are average players that maybe stood out in average teams. If we do have the funds that have been so long shouted about then we should be going for the big guns and stating our intensions to the other so called big clubs that we are know getting to the position to challenge them. I hardly think it will strike fear into Chelski and those manc :censored:

if they see us buy Bent and Yossi.

Apart from Manc the other big clubs have not really started spending big time and as yet i am not to worried about our lack of spending, i think that even if Raffa signs 1 or 2 players we could be in a position to push on next seasson we just need to get of to a good start.

I Raffa I trust

:bowdown

by **shanks** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:49 am

i am afraid if we can only buy squad players instead of quality players we have not got a cat in hells chance of winning the premiership 4th or 3rd position at best next season, we have a good nucleus in the squad gerrard, Carrager , alonso and reina we need 4-5 quality players to be taken serious contenders for the title..

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:54 am

The thing is though, for the kind of money Charlton are asking for Bent, I'd say bin him off as a bad idea - Rafa could feasibly make that cash go a fairly long way. That £18m alone could probably snap up Owen and at least a couple of Spanish signings in an Arbeloa vein.

Factor in the approx £10m we're hoping to get for Bellamy, and to be honest we're already looking at having close to £30m to play with. If that's our spending ceiling, it ain't half bad.

If funds are a lot more limited than this, I wonder if a season of loan signings will be in order. Obviously that's how we got round the whole Mascherano saga, and it was reported in The Guardian recently that a similar deal was possible for Tevez.

When everything's said and done, money isn't necessarily the solution. It certainly helps, but to be honest if the purse strings are tight, this season may well be our best gauge yet of exactly how good Rafa is.

by **Ian Rush's Right foot** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:59 am

i slightly disagree,

not many world class players of 25mill+ have come and set the prem alight in thier first season (Drogba eg)

what we need are some proven prem players, Taylor, Benayoun, would be good for us, as would Tevez (it even took him half a season to settle)

however the likes of Eto & Torres would struggle.

look at McCarthy & Berbatov, not the biggest name signings in the world, but the 2 best strikers last year (drogba aside)

IMO to complement Kuyt & Crouch i would love to have Owen & Forlan, and we should be able to get them for a total £25mill

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:19 pm

Look at the goals to pounds spent for Kevin Doyle at Reading - £80,000 he cost them, and he scored as many goals as Bent and Rooney (combined value £40m) last season, and outscored the likes of Berbatov, Robbie Keane, Kuyt, Yakubu, Anelka, all of whom cost over 100 times the amount Steve Coppell paid Cork for his services.

Just goes to show, there are players out there that won't break the bank and can still go out there and do a job for you. They may not necessarily take you to the next level, but if a Kevin Doyle or Dave Kitson came in, they obviously wouldn't be first team signings, but would still offer a goalscoring threat when called upon.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:20 pm

I think if we only bought squad players we would still improve on last season. I don't expect another start like we had last season, and Pennant and Kuyt should do better this time around. I wouldn't expect a title win but maybe a title challenge, before finishing maybe 9pts or so behind Chelsea and the Mancs. Maybe another cup run as well.

I still believe we arn't THAT far behind the top two if we get our act together. Injuries to key players aside (we still dont have the strength in depth to cope with injuries to Reina , Carra , Gerrard)we are nearly there. We would just have to ensure we didn't make the mistakes we made last season.

One further problem might be the message buying only squad players sent out to Gerrard and co, as I am sure they are expecting a couple of big signings just as we are.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:26 pm

What I don't want this thread to do is bring everyone down - I genuinely don't think we have particularly limited funds, and the current silence is almost certainly down to protracted discussions with players.

Let's face it - you don't put two strikers on the market if you don't have the means to at least adequately replace them. We're not a selling club.

Patience, patience, patience! It really is still very early days in the window. I think the Mancs early deals have rattled a lot of people - if their big 3 deals hadn't happened, I think this board would be a hell of a lot calmer.

by **redtrader74** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:28 pm

It is all about expectations, this Summer for example so far, i have never known the fervour from our own fans regarding who we will get and who we won't, the massive elation on the possibilities of Eto and the mourning of maybe having to settle for Bent, i suppose like a junkie on heroin and then coming off it (I don't know, really!, i just saw trainspotting again). This imho is because of the promises, expressed and imtimated by our new owners. If we were still in the hands of the Moores family and the rest, i doubt whether we would be suicidal should we sign Bent, Benayoun and Davis, but we are not and this would be a massive faux pas on the part of our Yank owners.

Buying what you suggest would without doubt improve our sqaud, Bents better than Fowler, Benayoun better than Gonzo/Bolo, Davis better than pellegrino and i think Caroll better than Padelli. Imho all this would do is secure our top four status and that only if Rafa stayed, but thats all, we may get a decent run in a cup or two, but the league...NO CHANCE, we would still be without a truly world class forward, something all our rivals would have, FFS even Newcastle and Tottenham would have that.

It's not that Bent can't score, but is he good enough to score when it matters, against the top sides, just as we were not in the CL final? I don't think so. I know that playing for us he may get more chances, but at the same time Charlton are hardly a side the opposition fear and respect, so he hardly faced packed defences and 9 men behind the ball as we usually do.

If this was the extent of our spending and therefore ambition, then the Americans would be out on their a-rse, they would make very little money for their outlay, the growth of the club would be stunted, they would have little chance of exploiting their marketing skills. What chance for a profitable deal for stadium advertising with a dearth of high qaulity world renowned players, and a team competing for 4th place, with the likes of Spurs, Newcastle, Neverton etc.? None.

That is why i'm confident in the belief that they will provide the funds, i don't buy into the 'Hey guys we love this club, these soccer fans are something special, etc etc' that lip service is all well and good but they have come here to see a growth and return on their investment, and to do that they need a successful, competing team, with highly regarded players.

by **Ciggy** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:30 pm

Right first off I know none of these rumoured players have signed yet, but its looking like they just well might and I dont mean Tevez, Eto or Henry.
I mean the likes of Yossi, and Bent.

Yossi is looking a dead cert to come now after handing in that transfer request, dont get me wrong he had an excellent first season in the prem for the Hammers and destroyed us in the FA Cup final.

But this player no matter how you dress it up is NOT going to take us to the next level no chance.
His goal scoring record is on par with Pennant and to be honest 1 goal from a right winger (Pennant) is a terrible return for us 1 bloody goal.

He played great in the CL final but didnt do anything with it.
He said Rafa said he wanted 10 goals from him last season atleast but he scored 1.
I know he improved and found his form towards the end of the season, but we need someone better and Pennant as a squad player.

And IMHO Benayoun is not an improvement on Luis or Pennant, so why the hell are we interested in him.
He is 27 for gods sake hardly a spring chicken thats going to develop into a world beater is he?

Which brings me to Darren Bent 17 feckin million the Hammers where prepared to pay 17 million now I ask you has football gone mad all together he is worth 7 million tops and thats pushing it.

What has he done to warrent that sum of money?
fuck all thats what, might aswell keep Bellamy rather than ship him off to replace him with Bent.

And now we hear Rafa is prepared to pay 12 million for him I am sorry but this is pathetic, double what we payed for Bellamy.
Who is the better player I would say Craig so why in gods name are we even interested in him?

Crouch was dear at the time we thought but atleast he has proved his worth.

I am baffled to say the least why we are going for under par players THAT WILL NOT TAKE US TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
And you can quote me on that should the pair of them sign at the end of next season, when Bent will be put up for sale because he only scored 8 to 10 goals for us.
And we will sell him at a loss of what we payed for him (Should he sign that is).

I get a feeling we will sign around six squad players one or two on a free Voronin already here :Oo:

I am so extatic that we have signed Voronin that I dont even think we need Eto he is that good and Kuyt and Crouch wont get a game because Voronin will keep them out of the team. :glare:

Give him a chance will be in a few replies wait a few months and the topics will be flying in what the feck did we get him for.

Football has changed a lot over the years we all know that but the worst part for us is not being able to compete in the transfer market with top dollar put on players heads some worth the price some not.

I am dissappionted with Rafa being interested in these two names alone, we have ambitions so does he but he needs to be a bit more ambitious in the transfer market and pay out for top class players, but it seems to me he is put off be them because of their inflated price tags. Why not just buy two brilliant players instead of 6 mediocre ones, we dont need that many positions filling as we have a good squad already.

Of course none of it might happen and this post was a waste of time, neither might come and I hope they dont because if they do and we sign another 3 squad players its going to be fighting for 3rd, 4th or even 5th next season.

by **mikey** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:30 pm

Rafa will be looking to bring in a left and right sided midfielder as well as a striker this summer, the worrying thing is we havent made any progress with our first choice targets (malouda, simao, take your pick of strikers) and it looks as though rafas now looking at 2nd choice targets. This is far from ideal and i fear looking at players like benayoun and bent will not be enough to stop the likes on united and chelsea who have already made quality additions to their squad, however i have faith in RB and i am sure he will find a way to improve the squad, whether this will be enough to challenge for the title we will have to wait and see.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:33 pm

A hypothetical question, one that doesnt spell great things for Liverpool FC.

Its weird, claims go from one extreme to the other. Rumoured to be chasing the likes of Eto and Tevez which would seemingly make us a much better outfit. To the signings of Bent and Youssi which would probably only just, if at atall keep us in the hunt for fourth spot each year.

A really $hit feeling if true.

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What if the likes of bent and benayoun - Are the limit of our expectations?

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