Liverpool FC Forum

by **RedorDead** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:44 am

Well according to BBC Sport Xabi has just signed an extended contract at Liverpool...so that's Gerrard, Carra, Reina and now Xabi having signed new deals, our four best players. Well done to Rafa and the board for getting that sorted out, now lets get them some new team mates to play with!!

by **lakes10** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:49 am

oops. i just done another thread on this sorry.

by **Sabre** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:55 am

Penguins, there's no point in saying who's right or wrong between you and LFC2007 because both of you are making many points, and many of them are debatable, but valid.

FWIW, I agree on the need of a left winger, and I have no doubts we'll get one.

I also agree we need a top class striker, but I beg you not to include Torres in this category. I only ask this.

Pennant is an improving player, who has done a good first season, so if any, I'd bring a right midfielder.

I also agree that Arbeloa is a big maybe, can't see him more than as a versatile back up, but then, that's the point, since Finnan IMHO is a solid RB.

And the main point we disagree is in the midfield. FWIW we don't know what's the plans for Leiva. Meaning he could be a RM or play as a LM and don't pose competition in the middle at all. I also disagree in the let's them keep happy. IMHO a player is happy when he plays every match. And when you play every match you have the risk of becoming a Well-Off player (I think this is the translation), too comfortable. Alonso didn't have serious competition for holding-mid role until Mascherano arrived. That's a bad thing for instance. It's good he has Mascha for competition. For him, and most importantly, for the team.

If he wants to leave because he doesn't play all the matches, then let him go, I don't want players like that. But I TRULY believe that's not the case.

So, I agree we don't have to have unhappy the players, but neither too happy. THey must compete. And we don't know if all the players that are being signed are going to play in the middle (Leiva, for instance). Or what role will they play. For instance Leiva might play the "second striker" role in the 4-5-1 system and don't play in the 442. Or maybe he could be a RM, like LG or Gerrard sometimes!! Again, that's the kind of depth we need.

And if this years we have kept the quality of the team with less money, I wouldn't sell precisely now we have money. What we must do is keep the strong midfield that we already have (if it was enough Mascherano wouldn't have come) and get stronger in other areas.

by **Penguins** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:17 pm

Sabre wrote:Penguins, there's no point in saying who's right or wrong between you and LFC2007 because both of you are making many points, and many of them are debatable, but valid.

FWIW, I agree on the need of a left winger, and I have no doubts we'll get one.

I also agree we need a top class striker, but I beg you not to include Torres in this category. I only ask this.

Pennant is an improving player, who has done a good first season, so if any, I'd bring a right midfielder.

I also agree that Arbeloa is a big maybe, can't see him more than as a versatile back up, but then, that's the point, since Finnan IMHO is a solid RB.

And the main point we disagree is in the midfield. FWIW we don't know what's the plans for Leiva. Meaning he could be a RM or play as a LM and don't pose competition in the middle at all. I also disagree in the let's them keep happy. IMHO a player is happy when he plays every match. And when you play every match you have the risk of becoming a Well-Off player (I think this is the translation), too comfortable. Alonso didn't have serious competition for holding-mid role until Mascherano arrived. That's a bad thing for instance. It's good he has Mascha for competition. For him, and most importantly, for the team.

If he wants to leave because he doesn't play all the matches, then let him go, I don't want players like that. But I TRULY believe that's not the case.

So, I agree we don't have to have unhappy the players, but neither too happy. THey must compete. And we don't know if all the players that are being signed are going to play in the middle (Leiva, for instance). Or what role will they play. For instance Leiva might play the "second striker" role in the 4-5-1 system and don't play in the 442. Or maybe he could be a RM, like LG or Gerrard sometimes!! Again, that's the kind of depth we need.

And if this years we have kept the quality of the team with less money, I wouldn't sell precisely now we have money. What we must do is keep the strong midfield that we already have (if it was enough Mascherano wouldn't have come) and get stronger in other areas.

Then what do you think a top class left weinger will cost us?
Ya, Torres finishing is poor at best

I also prefer the others.

Pennant should stay but I still believe we need a better 1st choice who scores more and has a btter end product.

Not so sure Arbeloa is the answer if Finnan or Risse is injured...

Well, Lieva has played CM his whole career so far both for club and country while winning the u20 world champ and becoming player of the year. That tells me where he should play. Switching him all of a sudden to a wing makes no sense to me at this time.
Sure, competition is good, but it is still better to have
2-3 CM who are worth 10m+ and who demands regular football and 2 back ups who is worth less and is happy to contribute for the club when they get they chance and do well like hamman, Biscan, Zenden.

Having 5 CM who are all worth 10m+(Lieva will very fast) means they will become unhappy faster and make overall happiness in the squad poorer.

And i am not a believer we don't have to sell anything to fill all the holes we have in the squad.
Sure, is there money to buy all 1st choices that we need there is little need to sell.

But like I said, if selling one CM means we could have mancini or Alves as 1st choice rw instead of Pennant I'd sell.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:33 pm

Penguins wrote:Having 5 CM who are all worth 10m+(Lieva will very fast) means they will become unhappy faster and make overall happiness in the squad poorer.

And i am not a believer we don't have to sell anything to fill all the holes we have in the squad.
Sure, is there money to buy all 1st choices that we need there is little need to sell.

But like I said, if selling one CM means we could have mancini or Alves as 1st choice rw instead of Pennant I'd sell.

This is the part of your argument that makes no sense to me fro the following reasons:

1) There is nothing to suggest that the value of the players in question should automatically mean they are going to get unhappier faster. Competition is healthy, central midfield is probably the most demanding area of the pitch, which is exactly why Chelsea have 5 top midfielders and have just added Sidwell to the mix, it's also the reason why Man Utd have just signed Hargreaves.

2) Do you think Rafa would have signed Leiva if he though it might lead to a rapid downturn in squad morale? I'd contend the opposite, that the extra competition will push our existing players to the max.

3) We will in all likelihood sell Gonzales, we may even end up selling Bellamy. That would almost certainly boost our spending power. Do you not think Rafa has a plan set out, a plan which sets out which players to bring in and which ones to move out?

4) Rafa clearly has no intention of selling one of these midfielders as Alonso has just extended his contract and Sissoko is rumoured to be on the verge of agreeing a new deal. That tells me that Rafa knows exactly who he wants to stay, and that keeping all 5 midfielders will NOT hinder his spending power in other areas. As further evidence of this, Rafa has come out regularly and said we need to add a few top players to the existing squad to reach the next level. You are suggesting something more radical, a revamping in all areas of the squad and I believe you will be proven completely wrong.

by **Sabre** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:41 pm

Then what do you think a top class left weinger will cost us?
Ya, Torres finishing is poor at best
I also prefer the others.

I'm a football fan, not a market pundit. So my predictions are rough, at best. I do know though, that the price depend on years left of contract. I do know though, that facts like having two good players in the same position makes it more of a temptation to sell one. I do know aswell that the finances of the club counts. So I couldn't answer generically that question of how much.

I do know aswell that Silva in Valencias has his re-signing of contract stalled. That they have Vicente, and that one of the men in LFC staff is the man who discovered him. We could get Silva under ALL this circunstances I've described for 10M pounds easily. Because the factors surrounding him makes him an easy target for negotiation!!

No clue about how a Malouda should cost, though.

Would Silva be good enough for LFC? I think so. Will he tryumph here? God knows. But he's a Spanish international, which is better that a San Marino or Lietchesteing international, and other internationals like Reina, Alonso, or LG, at least have been useful.

Pennant should stay but I still believe we need a better 1st choice who scores more and has a btter end product.

Like who? In Spain better than Pennant... let me count... not many. Joaquin, but he's a lazy bástard, Navas maybe (Sevilla) and a few others, but not many. I think that winger role is well covered so far by Pennant. A right midfielder would be better IMHO.

Not so sure Arbeloa is the answer if Finnan or Risse is injured...

As a backup for an isolated match, he's ok. Other than that... not sure.

Well, Lieva has played CM his whole career so far both for club and country while winning the u20 world champ and becoming player of the year. That tells me where he should play.

LFC2007 made a valid point about that not necessarily mean success here. He mentioned players with Brazilian young awards like Giovanni, or Sampaio, or others like Denilson, who didn't quite make an impact later. So I disagree, he should come, he should train, and then we'd judge if he should play. But for me, he's a big question mark.

As for not making sense putting a midfielder in a wing.

1) Milan AC had no wingers.
2) Arteta ALWAYS played as a midfielder in Spain and Scotland. But he has been player of the year in Everton playing right midfielder. There are players who are not suited to be put in a side of the pitch (Alonso, for instance) but others are perfectly capable, and that's a very common resource in Spain at least nowadays.

But like I said, if selling one CM means we could have mancini or Alves as 1st choice rw instead of Pennant I'd sell.

But I'll give you a better if. What if it's not necessary to sell, we can offer good long contracts to our current players, AND strenghten the other positions without losing power in midfield?

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