Liverpool FC Forum

by **ALONSO** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:05 pm

I do not believe he has been very good in the transfer market, we've had a lot of players who have just not been good enough and he seems a bit obsessed with the spanish league.
Gonzalez, Nunez, Zenden, Pellegrino etc... all failed
I think Sissoko was a quality signing, now he might be on his way, Alonso and Kuyt have done quite well and Garcias ok but nothing special.
opinions please :wwww

by **Big Niall** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:10 pm

I agree.

Too many spaniards, hasnt bought a good forward yet.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:11 pm

i agree and also disagree

you give me one manager who always signs quality, never makes any transfer mistakes?

you wont find one

rafa has signed some quality and made some mistakes...

the good

Crouch...many called him donkey, and he has proved many wrong.
alonso
sissoko
mascherano
agger
reina
garcia.....cause of the 05 champs league heroics and also his goalscoring record for a winger/attacking mid is really good

the bad

pelligrino
nunez
josemi
gonzalez
zenden
morientes

the maybes

pennant
bellamy
aurellio
arbeloa
kuyt

by **Sabre** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:19 pm

*sigh*

Maybe I wouldn't divide the signing ups in "success" and "failure" but with a wider range:

Gonzalez: Failure.
Alonso: Success
Morientes: Decent
Luis: Good signing up.
Pennat: Good signing up.
Bellamy: Decent
Arbeloa: Decent, a patch to fix holes in the team
Kuyt: Good signing up
Crouch: Good Signing up
Fowler: Decent, a patch to fix holes in the team
Pellegrino: was Pelegrino a Rafa signing up?
Agger: Very good signing up, future player
Sissoko: Good signing up
Nuñez: Failure
Mascherano: Success.
Fabio Aurelio: Good signing up
Reina: Success.
Kronkamp: A patch like Arbeload, didn't work.

In my view there are not many blatant failures (I'm sure I miss some players). There are some players that did they work, but underperformed for what they were expected to (Morientes), and Rafa has reached a fair amount of good signings and success.

Liverpool is a stronger and deeper squad than it was 2 years ago. The players of Houllier didn't have great buyers, the players of Rafa have important teams (apparently) knocking the door.

P.S. I agree littlehobo Josemi was a bad, but Zenden for me, not that much, he'd be somewhere between decent and bad. If he hadn't been injured, probably he would have reached to decent, IMHO.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:21 pm

morientes was a failure in my opinion

similar to shevchenko, great striker in the slower paced leagues.

flopped over here

morientes.......61 games 12 goals

thats worse than heskey, crouch, cisse etc

morientes defo was a flop

by **redtrader74** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:48 pm

The important thing regarding Rafa's 'poorer' signings are that he has been ruthless in removing them once HE believes they are not good enough for the Club. They have not really cost us apart from their wages, Unlike Diouf, Diao,Cisse etc,etc, and they have been young enough to be sold on for the same or more, in general.

When you buy a player for £2-3m, they are hardly going to be world beaters, they have been bought IMHO to be stop gaps when the money has run out. There have been poor signings but hardly excessive, on par with most managers. There is a keeness to buy Spaniards, but all managers go to what they know best, if you have limited funds you will probably opt for the players you know more about.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:01 pm

redtrader74 wrote:The important thing regarding Rafa's 'poorer' signings are that he has been ruthless in removing them once HE believes they are not good enough for the Club. They have not really cost us apart from their wages, Unlike Diouf, Diao,Cisse etc,etc, they have been young enough to be sold on for the same or more, in general.

When you buy a player for £2-3m, they are hardly going to be world beaters, they have been bought IMHO to be stop gaps when the money has run out. There have been poor signings but hardly excessive, on par with most managers. There is a keeness to buy Spaniards, but all managers go to what they know best, if you have limited funds you will probably opt for the players you know more about.

I agree with this, Rafa's signings have been on a different level to Houllier's and Houllier was making horrendous signings towards the end of his reign - a sign he hadn't learnt much about the transfer market.

You can't expect a guy from a different country to come in and make great signings staright away with the money he's had.

Overall I'd say his signings have definitely taken us to the next level and I'm happy with that, hopefully this summer can show what he can do in the transfer market if given some proper money to spend.

All the top managers make poor signings, Rafa has been no different and he hasn't made a Ciise-esque blunder or a Veron-esque blunder, let's hope it stays this way this summer.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:01 pm

Yer, Rafa's rubbish. Get rid. :kungfu:

by **babu** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:05 pm

nunez wasn't rafa's signing, i think

by **grayghost** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:14 pm

I think a lot off the transfer failures must go to Parry aswell Rafa only picks his targets its up to parry to do the rest.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:24 pm

babu wrote:nunez wasn't rafa's signing, i think

In the sense that he arrived under Rafa's tenure, he was, mate. In the sense that he was foisted upon us as a make weight in the Owen deal and that Rafa would not have been in for him otherwise then, you're right, he wasn't.

As for some of the others mentioned:

1) Pellegrino signed as cover for Hyypia and Carra during the 2005 run in since we had no cover at CB and no money to buy a quality back up, of which none existed anyway as it was January and any CBs of any quality were not on the market

2) Zenden hasn't been brilliant but he came on a free and has been useful at times. Again, with Rafa required to find bargains to fill many gaps in the squad it was a shrewd bit of business given the lad's proven in the league (i.e. he wasn't one of the dreaded 'Spanish' signings!)

3) Gonzales has failed to adapt to the league but the interest shown in him around La Liga suggests that the lad has his admirers. Hardly a bad bit of business to give the kid a chance, especially since--I'll say it again--money was tight.

4) 'Okay but nothing special' Garcia is a midfielder who has scored like a striker for two seasons with us--all from open play--despite spending a fair few games on the bench. Perhaps some people have short memories but that silverware we've put in the trophy cabinet over the last two seasons wouldn't have been possible without Garcia's timely goals.

5) Josemi wasn't good enough but he brought the best out of Finnan (as Pellegrino did with Hyypia) and was sold for a profit. Same goes for Kromkamp. More evidence of Rafa being forced to buy cover on the cheap but managing to get some use out of them before moving them out sharpish.

6) Last I checked Crouch, Bellamy, Fowler, Pennant, Carson, Kuyt, Agger and Mascherano were sound non-Spanish signings who have contributed a great deal to the side. Some will no doubt be shipped on as we endeavor to take a step up in quality but all have been useful additions to the club and have contributed a great deal.

So, in sum, Rafa's done quite a decent job given the funds available to him and has managed to unearth some real gems. His failings in the transfer market are certainly no worse than those of our major competitors but he hasn't had the same opportunity to splash the cash on proven quality like they have. So, I think criticizing his transfers is more than a little churlish...especially as we have yet to see how he does this window with cash to spend for once.

by **GRIMM599** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:26 pm

. ^
|
*edit* What he said!

nunez wasn't rafa's signing, i think

we got nunez as part of selling owen.

"I was very happy with Michael and I wanted him to stay. The problem was he only had a year left on his contract," said Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez.

by **dawson99** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:29 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
babu wrote:nunez wasn't rafa's signing, i think

In the sense that he arrived under Rafa's tenure, he was, mate. In the sense that he was foisted upon us as a make weight in the Owen deal and that Rafa would not have been in for him otherwise then, you're right, he wasn't.

As for some of the others mentioned:

1) Pellegrino signed as cover for Hyypia and Carra during the 2005 run in since we had no cover at CB and no money to buy a quality back up, of which none existed anyway as it was January and any CBs of any quality were not on the market

2) Zenden hasn't been brilliant but he came on a free and has been useful at times. Again, with Rafa required to find bargains to fill many gaps in the squad it was a shrewd bit of business given the lad's proven in the league (i.e. he wasn't one of the dreaded 'Spanish' signings!)

3) Gonzales has failed to adapt to the league but the interest shown in him around La Liga suggests that the lad has his admirers. Hardly a bad bit of business to give the kid a chance, especially since--I'll say it again--money was tight.

4) 'Okay but nothing special' Garcia is a midfielder who has scored like a striker for two seasons with us--all from open play--despite spending a fair few games on the bench. Perhaps some people have short memories but that silverware we've put in the trophy cabinet over the last two seasons wouldn't have been possible without Garcia's timely goals.

5) Josemi wasn't good enough but he brought the best out of Finnan (as Pellegrino did with Hyypia) and was sold for a profit. Same goes for Kromkamp. More evidence of Rafa being forced to buy cover on the cheap but managing to get some use out of them before moving them out sharpish.

6) Last I checked Crouch, Bellamy, Fowler, Pennant, Carson, Kuyt, Agger and Mascherano were sound non-Spanish signings who have contributed a great deal to the side. Some will no doubt be shipped on as we endeavor to take a step up in quality but all have been useful additions to the club and have contributed a great deal.

So, in sum, Rafa's done quite a decent job given the funds available to him and has managed to unearth some real gems. His failings in the transfer market are certainly no worse than those of our major competitors but he hasn't had the same opportunity to splash the cash on proven quality like they have. So, I think criticizing his transfers is more than a little churlish...especially as we have yet to see how he does this window with cash to spend for once.

elef.ckingquately spoken bad bob.

and i gotta agree with you. If you look at the signings, no REAL money has been spent and weve built a squad very capable, now lets add the icing with some proper funds

by **metalhead** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:20 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
babu wrote:nunez wasn't rafa's signing, i think

In the sense that he arrived under Rafa's tenure, he was, mate. In the sense that he was foisted upon us as a make weight in the Owen deal and that Rafa would not have been in for him otherwise then, you're right, he wasn't.

As for some of the others mentioned:

1) Pellegrino signed as cover for Hyypia and Carra during the 2005 run in since we had no cover at CB and no money to buy a quality back up, of which none existed anyway as it was January and any CBs of any quality were not on the market

2) Zenden hasn't been brilliant but he came on a free and has been useful at times. Again, with Rafa required to find bargains to fill many gaps in the squad it was a shrewd bit of business given the lad's proven in the league (i.e. he wasn't one of the dreaded 'Spanish' signings!)

3) Gonzales has failed to adapt to the league but the interest shown in him around La Liga suggests that the lad has his admirers. Hardly a bad bit of business to give the kid a chance, especially since--I'll say it again--money was tight.

4) 'Okay but nothing special' Garcia is a midfielder who has scored like a striker for two seasons with us--all from open play--despite spending a fair few games on the bench. Perhaps some people have short memories but that silverware we've put in the trophy cabinet over the last two seasons wouldn't have been possible without Garcia's timely goals.

5) Josemi wasn't good enough but he brought the best out of Finnan (as Pellegrino did with Hyypia) and was sold for a profit. Same goes for Kromkamp. More evidence of Rafa being forced to buy cover on the cheap but managing to get some use out of them before moving them out sharpish.

6) Last I checked Crouch, Bellamy, Fowler, Pennant, Carson, Kuyt, Agger and Mascherano were sound non-Spanish signings who have contributed a great deal to the side. Some will no doubt be shipped on as we endeavor to take a step up in quality but all have been useful additions to the club and have contributed a great deal.

So, in sum, Rafa's done quite a decent job given the funds available to him and has managed to unearth some real gems. His failings in the transfer market are certainly no worse than those of our major competitors but he hasn't had the same opportunity to splash the cash on proven quality like they have. So, I think criticizing his transfers is more than a little churlish...especially as we have yet to see how he does this window with cash to spend for once.

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