Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 29, 2007 5:59 pm

Seems pretty clear now, sell Gerrard and Alonso and buy Fat Frank and Gilberto :laugh:

by **LFC2007** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:00 pm

Come on, enough of the insults, they erode the argument completely.

by **Sabre** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:03 pm

s@int wrote:Seems pretty clear now, sell Gerrard and Alonso and buy Fat Frank and Gilberto

I think redtrated finds it interesting because stats and opinions can bring bizarre results. Like the all-praised Mascherano down in the list, and the criticised Alonso upper. Or Hyypia as an important player of the season. Opinions, almost everyone has one, Hansen aswell. Stats? they often lie.

by **redtrader74** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:06 pm

Sabre wrote:
s@int wrote:Seems pretty clear now, sell Gerrard and Alonso and buy Fat Frank and Gilberto

I think redtrated finds it interesting because stats and opinions can bring bizarre results. Like the all-praised Mascherano down in the list, and the criticised Alonso upper. Or Hyypia as an important player of the season. Opinions, almost everyone has one, Hansen aswell. Stats? they often lie.

One thing they did not take into account was the level of each players team mates.

by **Sabre** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:23 pm

In a model like that you leave out many relevant aspects. You could make 459 different approachs to rankings. They just found one in which there was no LFC players on the top 10, and they said "this is the good one". :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:44 pm

Sabre wrote:
s@int wrote:Seems pretty clear now, sell Gerrard and Alonso and buy Fat Frank and Gilberto

I think redtrated finds it interesting because stats and opinions can bring bizarre results. Like the all-praised Mascherano down in the list, and the criticised Alonso upper. Or Hyypia as an important player of the season. Opinions, almost everyone has one, Hansen aswell. Stats? they often lie.

I agree Sabre thats why apart from my opinion I posted facts, Alonso has only made one assist - fact
We only lost one game when Alonso didn't play - fact
We only lost one game when he only made a sub appearance - fact

Gilberto Silva made 2 assists and scored 10 goals - fact etc etc. What interpretation, relevance or importance you give to these facts is up to you.

by **bigmick** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:07 pm

I'm with Scottbott in the number three camp meself. Lets keep Xabi because he's one of our best players. However, if the transfer kitty is not as big as we need (and it needs to be pretty big, we need a goalkeeper and at least one centre half before we even think about strikers) then of our saleable, big revenue assets he's the one I'd sacrifice. If it's to be a choice between Xabi, Carra or Gerrard, I'd reluctantly let Alonso go.

Just to reiterate however, I hope it doesn't come to that.

by **aCe'** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:34 pm

he is not indispensable... and there is a chance he wont be a key member of the first team next season if rafa opts for a gerrard-masch partnership in the middle...
having a 16mill+ player as cover is insane if you ask me so if rafa doesnt intend starting him more than not doing so... id expect him to be gone !

by **Sabre** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:00 pm

aCe' wrote:he is not indispensable... and there is a chance he wont be a key member of the first team next season if rafa opts for a gerrard-masch partnership in the middle...
having a 16mill+ player as cover is insane if you ask me so if rafa doesnt intend starting him more than not doing so... id expect him to be gone !

There's a lot of ifs in your post.

If all that ifs are true, then there might be a chance you have a point.

But do you think that will happen? I think no, what about you?

I think that's the kind of competition in the squad that LFC needs. And both Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano will be used plenty.

Do you have any sign that makes you think Mascherano will have a more important role than Alonso? If so, could you point me out what that sign would be?

Even if it's true Alonso has been below his best that would be just a bad season of a player that has showed what's he's capable of this 3 years, and when he was a newbie, he was very praised aswell. More than Mascherano, even.

Rafa has said that he's trying to get a long term contract with Alonso, which is also a sign that he wants Alonso be important.

So, is there any sign of what you say somewhere, apart from what some journalists that give stick everyday say?

by **aCe'** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:32 pm

Sabre wrote:
aCe' wrote:he is not indispensable... and there is a chance he wont be a key member of the first team next season if rafa opts for a gerrard-masch partnership in the middle...
having a 16mill+ player as cover is insane if you ask me so if rafa doesnt intend starting him more than not doing so... id expect him to be gone !

There's a lot of ifs in your post.

If all that ifs are true, then there might be a chance you have a point.

But do you think that will happen? I think no, what about you?

I think that's the kind of competition in the squad that LFC needs. And both Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano will be used plenty.

Do you have any sign that makes you think Mascherano will have a more important role than Alonso? If so, could you point me out what that sign would be?

Even if it's true Alonso has been below his best that would be just a bad season of a player that has showed what's he's capable of this 3 years, and when he was a newbie, he was very praised aswell. More than Mascherano, even.

Rafa has said that he's trying to get a long term contract with Alonso, which is also a sign that he wants Alonso be important.

So, is there any sign of what you say somewhere, apart from what some journalists that give stick everyday say?

listen mate i see what ur trying to say...
but to me.. if gerrard and mascherano are played say the first 5 weeks and are proven to be good partnership in the middle...i wouldnt really give a flyin fck if alonso see the pitch or not... as things stand... i think its a safe assumption saying that we will play 4-4-2 next season with 2 players in the middle...
that being said... FOR ME, id like to see gerrard play in the center alongside any of mascherano or alonso... FOR ME, mascherano would do a better job playing behind gerrard than would alonso...

competition is not a must if you ask me... but again...thats just me... if you have 2 class players in a position... you MUST have cover but it would be better if you have competition..not a must though ! you dont see manutd having competion in their central midfield do they...an they seem to be doing okay ! they have cover... but if scholes and carrick are fit they are always going to be 1st choice... same with arsenal, barcelona, milan, and many other top clubs !

there is no doubting alonsos quality and never have i said that mascherano is the better player of the 2 so wat u say about alonso having a bad season...i have nothing to say to that !

"But do you think that will happen? I think no, what about you?"
i dont think alonso is ging anywhere but im just giving my opinions here...

"So, is there any sign of what you say somewhere, apart from what some journalists that give stick everyday say? "
what i said was my opinion as to what should happen... no media craap just what would make sense if you ask me ! i said it earlier on in the thrad and ill say it again....
i dont think xabi is going anywhere as RAFA obviously rates him and thinks hes one to stay... and im sure he'll play many many games next season... i expect him to be a very important player for us next season and expect him to be at his very best with all the new talent bound to sign

by **LFC2007** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:24 pm

aCe' wrote:you dont see manutd having competion in their central midfield do they...an they seem to be doing okay ! they have cover... but if scholes and carrick are fit they are always going to be 1st choice... same with arsenal, barcelona, milan, and many other top clubs !

You make the assumption that "cover" is not "competition".

by **Simari** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:53 pm

aCe' wrote:you dont see manutd having competion in their central midfield do they...an they seem to be doing okay ! they have cover... but if scholes and carrick are fit they are always going to be 1st choice

That's probably why they are almost done purchasing Owen Hargreaves as "cover" for £15m ...

by **112-1077774096** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:54 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:You know what? I am beginning to think I may have been wrong about the circumstances surrounding your exit from the Police.

The way you're talking, I would now have another bet in a seperate bookies that it was down entirely to your ineptitude and lack of reason.

well thats your 3rd guess, all very wrong, but since you seem so interested and think its winding me up, just to reiterate my pm to you, put your money where your mouth is, i will take your bet, how much do you want lando?

like i said in my pm you want to save up a fiver and bet with that or can we go with the bet i want 5 grand?

now is the time to walk the walk big man

( hey maybe it was because i got highlights and the booted me for looking gay)

by **LFC2007** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:04 am

Simari wrote:
aCe' wrote:you dont see manutd having competion in their central midfield do they...an they seem to be doing okay ! they have cover... but if scholes and carrick are fit they are always going to be 1st choice

That's probably why they are almost done purchasing Owen Hargreaves as "cover" for £15m ...

Exactly!

by **gato_busta** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:21 am

We played about 60 games last season, including friendlies. IF we were to play 4-4-2 every game and only use one player in central midfield, that would mean that Mascherano, being THE ONLY HOLDING MIDFIELD in the team if Alonso is sold, would get to play about 60 games. Xabi and Gerrard have played in 51 one games this season. Both of them came back from a hard 2005-2006 season in which we ended with 82 points, 1 point behind the Mancs and 9 behind Chelsea. Both of them went to the World cup their vacation was cut short, then they returned to the preseason. Neither of them had anyone on the team that could really cover for them.

Last season we had a fit Kewell, Gerrard was fantastic and Xabi was great as ever. We did place a serious title challenge and slipped towards the middle/end. This season Kewell was injured, Xabi and Gerrard were not at their best level (IMO the fact they practically did not rest after the previous season) and it reflected greatly, ending with 14 points less than the previous season and 21 point behind the first place.

To have ONLY ONE HOLDING MIDFIELD would be silly. The formation we used in the CL final was the right choice IMO, the only problem was not having a good player on the left wing and choosing the wrong striker. I do believe that Xabi and Mascherano will play together next season in some games, in others one will play while the other is rested. Rafa likes to rotate not only his players but his formation. IF and ONLY IF we were to play 4-4-2 with one central mid and one holding mid with two wingers week in and week out, then yes, having either Mascherano or Xabi as a sub would be illogical. HOWEVER that is not the case, Rafa will change his formation, he will play 3-5-2 sometimes, other times 4-5-1, and sometimes 4-4-2. He will choose the best formation for each game and use both Mascherano and Xabi on the pitch at the same time on some games. Having both of them on the team gives us more options, therefore more depth which we need for all competitions.

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