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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby redtrader74 » Fri May 25, 2007 10:30 pm

bigmick wrote:Clearly from anecdotal evidence (as I obviously wasn't there) the stadium wasn't a wise choice. Also, by all accounts the stewarding and policing was rubbish as well to go along with the fact that the ticket allocation was patently ridiculous.

That said, clearly some supporters let themselves and the club down with their behaviour. We can't continually condone bad behaviour, but equally fans can't seriously be expected to police themselves (it would take a big or a brave man to confront four lads who've bunked into some seats next door and then tell the rightful owner to get fecked when he arrives). Yes we can tut-tut, and yes we can roundly condemn, but ultimately the responsibility to behave properly lies with the individual, and the ultimate responsibility to ensure that good behaviour lies with the authorities. Collectively I don't think Liverpool supporters should be hanging their heads in shame. While there probably was some regretable behaviour, it is possible to underatand some of it even if we don't necessarily agree with it.

It's hard to imagine how a fan, who was say taking his little lad accross Europe to see the final would feel when he was refused entry at the gate with a legitimate ticket. Would I storm the gates in such a situation? Fecking right I would, OOTer scouser or whatever you are, when your little 'un is bawling his eyes out you're going to try and remedy the situation somewhat.

Equally, if you've travelled accross Europe with a few of your mates who have tickets, hoping to pick up a ticket somewhere along the way and the opportunity comes to sneak in, would you take it? Course you would. I defy anybody to say hand on heart that they wouldn't. You wouldn't tell the rightful owners of the tickets to get fecked but you would sneak in no question, well I would anyway.

No the answer is not to build a new stadium, its to build a coherent plan for stopping those without tickets getting within a half mile of the ground. It's about building a facility via a big screen with scaffold terracing and a beer tent on the outskirts of a town for those fans from both clubs who havent got tickets. It's about a festival is a final, and the authorities who happily took the fans money but then on the night hadn't taken necessary measures to ensure those fans could take their seats to see the game should be hanging their heads in shame, not ordinary Liverpool supporters.

No sorry if i was with my little 'un, and we were refused entry i would not storm the gates, that would be a Fucking stupid thing to do and a really CraP example to my son.
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Postby bigmick » Fri May 25, 2007 10:37 pm

Ok Red, I'm not going to argue because of course you're right. Tell the truth, maybe I wouldn't do it myself 'cos I'm not brave enough and my claim in the previous post was probably a bit more bravado than anything else if I'm honest, but I can still understand those that colectively (which is really what I mean) are so unbelieveably p!ssed off that they get embroiled in a pack mentality push and shove. I'm merely trying to get into my head what it must feel like to talk about nothing else with your boy for weeks, and then travel accross Europe to arrive at the stadium and be denied entry.

Of course the right thing to do is to shrug your shoulders, protest with dignity and restraint and walk away. I'm not (or at least don't think I am) a yob myself but I'm merely making the point that when people are treated in such a terrible way, it's not that surprising that a few react.
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Postby bigmick » Fri May 25, 2007 10:40 pm

Of course the follow up from my previous post is that it's not, in my opinion, enough for the authorities to say in that situation "well it's Liverpool supporters jumping the gates that have caused the problem, there's nothing we can do". My contention si that is their failure to control the situation, in ALLOWING supporters without tickets to enter the stadium which has caused the problem.
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Postby redtrader74 » Fri May 25, 2007 10:50 pm

From all the anecdotal evidence i have read and heard it seems the people 'steaming' the gates were those without tickets, those bunking cheapskate wankers. This is why the guys with the tickets were then batoned or pepper sprayed when they started getting antagonised. IMHO the right thing to do, better to crack a few than find that some kid has been crushed to death.

Like i said there are people on this forum who either bunked in or know guys who did, but they won't open their mouth now, personally if a mate of mine did that, he would know what i think of him.

It is easy to say the police were underprepared but they have not had these issues when other teams have brought thier supporters, eg Celtic.
Decent fans are embarressed because we do pride ourselves on being better, we think we are more knowledgeable and we know our history should bear down on us to behave that much better.
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Postby Rafa D » Fri May 25, 2007 10:57 pm

Everyone I have spoke to who went the game said we were out of order.
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Postby J*o*n*D*o*e » Sat May 26, 2007 6:26 am

lets also not forget and this isnt an attempt to deflect blame because it clear some liverpool fans where involved but ive been to away finals before and you get people going to the game who dont support the club, fact

we have fantastic support, where up there with the best but as leonne as pointed out just because where liverpool doesnt mean where all angels, just like in society if you take a cross section of 40 thousand people you`ll get the good with the bad, the people who stormed the checkpoint the other night are not fans, there criminals who care for nobody but themselves and its down to all of us to sort it out.

the greek police may have fooked up big time the other night but lets thank them for one thing and thats closing the stadium because if they hadnt we would of been having a very different conversation.
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Postby babu » Sat May 26, 2007 7:56 am

I just got back home from athens. too tired to type, but want to say that the Liverpool fans were fantastic !!!

in syntagma square, on the trains (side by side with Milan fans) and especially after the loss. Majority stayed and clapped.

Truly truly fantastic bunch. I did not see one incident.

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:buttrock   :bowdown
Last edited by babu on Sat May 26, 2007 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mungi » Sat May 26, 2007 8:48 am

Reclaim the Kop
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Postby BOODIDDY » Sat May 26, 2007 9:37 am

FACT: THERE WAS PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THIS FORUM WHO DID JUMP QUE'S AND WERE TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER TO THE GREEKS AND OFFICIALS.

THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEIRSELVES. THEY WONT COME FORWARD, BUT I KNOW WHO THEY ARE (WELL SOME OF THEM ANYHOW)

WE AS A CLUB HAVE GOT TO STOP USING THE SAME OLD STORY. THAT POLICING WAS POOR AND THEY JUST BATTERED YOU WITH BATONS FOR NO REASON. (NOT HILLSBROUGH, BECAUSE THE TAYLOR REPORT STATED THE POLICING WAS WRONG THERE)

BUT, 86 FINAL AT WEMBLEY, PEOPLE STORMED THE GATES THEN. DORTMUND 2001, FANS DID THE SAME AGAIN.

YET, THE OTHER DAY THOSE THAT STORMED THE GATES AND INTIMIDATED THE LOCALS WERE THE FIRST TO COME ON TV AND RADIO AND SAY THEY WERE TREATED POORLY. FFS, GET REAL. THOSE FANS (AND THERE WERE A GOOD FEW HUNDRED OF THEM) ARE DICKS. THIS CLUB CAN'T CONDONE THIS EVER. MILAN HAD NO PROBLEMS. WE AS FANS MUST ACCEPT THAT EVERYONE AIN'T GONNA ET A TICKET,  AND JUST ENJOY HTE OCCASION FROM NOW ON AT HOME WITH FRIENDS WHO HAVEN'T GOT THEM OR AT THE VENUE BUT ON BIG SCREENS OR IN PUBS. AND PLEASE, PLEASE BEHAVE.

FOOTBALL IS FOR EVERYONE, AND THERE WERE FAR TOO MANY WHO THOUGHT THAT BECAUSE THEY WERE MALE THEY HAD A DEVINE RIGHT TO ENTRY BEFORE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. gET A GRIP YOU MORONIC T.W.AT.S.

I REALLY FEEL ASHAMED TO FOLLOW THIS CLUB WITH THESE THUGS JUST NOW
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Postby redtrader74 » Sat May 26, 2007 9:43 am

If you know who Boodiddy,then name and shame the B astards
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Postby puroresu » Sat May 26, 2007 9:45 am

BOODIDDY wrote:FACT: THERE WAS PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THIS FORUM WHO DID JUMP QUE'S AND WERE TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER TO THE GREEKS AND OFFICIALS.

THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEIRSELVES. THEY WONT COME FORWARD, BUT I KNOW WHO THEY ARE (WELL SOME OF THEM ANYHOW)

WE AS A CLUB HAVE GOT TO STOP USING THE SAME OLD STORY. THAT POLICING WAS POOR AND THEY JUST BATTERED YOU WITH BATONS FOR NO REASON. (NOT HILLSBROUGH, BECAUSE THE TAYLOR REPORT STATED THE POLICING WAS WRONG THERE)

BUT, 86 FINAL AT WEMBLEY, PEOPLE STORMED THE GATES THEN. DORTMUND 2001, FANS DID THE SAME AGAIN.

YET, THE OTHER DAY THOSE THAT STORMED THE GATES AND INTIMIDATED THE LOCALS WERE THE FIRST TO COME ON TV AND RADIO AND SAY THEY WERE TREATED POORLY. FFS, GET REAL. THOSE FANS (AND THERE WERE A GOOD FEW HUNDRED OF THEM) ARE DICKS. THIS CLUB CAN'T CONDONE THIS EVER. MILAN HAD NO PROBLEMS. WE AS FANS MUST ACCEPT THAT EVERYONE AIN'T GONNA ET A TICKET,  AND JUST ENJOY HTE OCCASION FROM NOW ON AT HOME WITH FRIENDS WHO HAVEN'T GOT THEM OR AT THE VENUE BUT ON BIG SCREENS OR IN PUBS. AND PLEASE, PLEASE BEHAVE.

FOOTBALL IS FOR EVERYONE, AND THERE WERE FAR TOO MANY WHO THOUGHT THAT BECAUSE THEY WERE MALE THEY HAD A DEVINE RIGHT TO ENTRY BEFORE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. gET A GRIP YOU MORONIC T.W.AT.S.

I REALLY FEEL ASHAMED TO FOLLOW THIS CLUB WITH THESE THUGS JUST NOW

super post.  Its very sad that there are plenty right now who are bragging to there mates that they managed to go all the way to athens without a ticket and got into the game.
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Postby BOODIDDY » Sat May 26, 2007 9:45 am

We must look at this RTK programme that we have going. I heard a lot in greece talking about the local fans being allowed entry to the kop.

Go down that route and this club will go back faster than it did in the 80's. Im from Bolton (some just say an oot) and have followed this great club since i was old enough to follow. i've spent thousands following them and i'm getting sick of having to show how much i support them because i "talk dead funny".

There have been some heated debates on here, (stu the red springs to mind straight away) were i have been told to go and support your own club. Well, i have news for these narrow minded wa.nkers, this is my club and i'll back them up more than most scousers will. I ain't ranting against all scousers cos its only a select few who bring this :censored: up. But, the RTK programme has to be careful that it don't alienate those LFC fans from all over the world.
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Postby J*o*n*D*o*e » Sat May 26, 2007 11:14 am

babu wrote:I just got back home from athens. too tired to type, but want to say that the Liverpool fans were fantastic !!!

in syntagma square, on the trains (side by side with Milan fans) and especially after the loss. Majority stayed and clapped.

Truly truly fantastic bunch. I did not see one incident.

Image

:buttrock   :bowdown

if you look at the picture you posted closely, the bottom tier of the stand behind that goal has about 1000 people in there who should not be there.
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sat May 26, 2007 11:17 am

if you look at the picture you posted closely, the bottom tier of the stand behind that goal has about 1000 people in there who should not be there.


Yep, that guy in row three, seat 58 should NOT be there.
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Postby Javier Mascherano_20 » Sat May 26, 2007 12:29 pm

Well i can say that i am actually ashamed at the behaviour of some of the Liverpool fans in Athens.

I mean true Liverpool fans robbing and even fighting with each other ? I don't think so.

Then they have the nerve to turn round and get along with the AC fans when they can't even get along with their own fans.
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