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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Rafa D » Fri May 25, 2007 10:06 am

From RAWK.

Mmmmmm.

Personally I got in early as I knew something would kick off. Glad I did: my seat was still spare but my three mates' next to me were taken by bunkers. There were thousands in the ground without tickets.

If anyone really thinks this kind of behaviour is in no way related to what happened in Hillsborough then that beggars belief IMHO.

The fact is that the police last night did what was right to stop another dangerous crush. Which was lock loads of decent ticketed reds out for a game they qualified for. If they'd open the gates only a miracle would have prevented a Hillsborough type crush. You see the authorities have learned how to prevent tragedy: we as a group still don't care. "In's in la". :censored:. And in this same group of bunkers will be those that shout loudest about H.J.C. etc.

You know one of the worst things about what the Sun printed? That we as a group have partly used it to absolve ourselves of all blame for what happened at Hillsborough. We haven't had the insight to realise that our own behaviour can set in train a series of events that can create a situation for the police to mismanage. Or rather we seem to have forgotten that. For years after Hillsborough behaviour did seem better but its got worse over the last two seasons, and this season particularly. Perhaps its young lads now who are too young to remember the late 80's but are now old enough to go the game who are chiefly responsible.

I don't give two hoots (O.O.T.S. ?) that I don't have a scouse accent, I have the blood, my family have been on the Kop since the thing was built. All this "they were only robbing wool whoppers". Do run away with your scouse fascism. Thats what it is pure and simple. I've had enough of it. I've know O.O.T. lads who follow this club all over and are great ambassadors for it, not like the crazed numbskull spewing bile in the direction of innocent Greek old men and ladies on the metro on the way to the game. People who when he had got bored were pleasant enough to being showing us all photo's of their "end" at A.E.K. Athens, and wished us all the best for the game.

You know what we have got some whoppers following us, and the worst are with a scouse accent. Licenced to rob, to fight, to bunk, to show frank disregard for anyone but their selves. Licenced to stand there the whole game singing racist and antisemetic songs. Licenced to kick the sh.it out of an 18 y.o.ish Milan fan in our end - although obviously licenced to bunk in their end when they like him are just desperate to watch their team.

You might say "do one if you don't like it", and do you know after over twenty years I feel on the verge of doing just that. So do a lot of other reds, scouse and O.O.T., who I have spoken to in Athens today. It is just a matter of time before there is another tragedy. A sad inevitability.

We can't police ourselves. We can't do a Celtic and take 70,000 to Spain and let those lucky enough to have tickets go watch a game that they have qualified to watch. We can't respect the fact that we are a global club with global fans and as a result we get to play in global events like Champions League Finals. We can't stop making pathetic excuses for the behaviour of idiots based upon the fact their victims speak differently to them.

I'm gutted. Not so much by a defeat instigated by what I believe will prove to be a bent ref - if you will play football matches you have to expect to lose some of them. I'm gutted 'cos I realise that things have gone backward. The abyss of ghosts past await.

But that's alright la, cos ins in, innit?



I know exactly what this fella's talking about as well. Some of the lads we have following us on the away days are absolute tw.ats. I've seen them fighting between themselves at Birmingham, fighting outside Bolton, acting like tw.ats to women and childen in Cardiff even.
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Postby Naomi » Fri May 25, 2007 10:24 am

Good post. It is true that there are a certain number of "fans" who are bringing down the reputation of true followers of Liverpool. Two seasons ago i took my daughter to her first Liverpool match, she was wearing her Gerrard shirt with pride and couldn't stop smiling that is until we got near to the ground.  Even though she was six at the time and i was the only adult with her ( a youngish mum!), her excitement was spoilt due to a group of "fans" who decided we really shouldn't be at there for a couple of reasons:

1. We were female - and apparently only good for cleaning and other things that thankfully my daughter was too young to understand.

2. We weren't from Liverpool, but Preston. According to them we were using tickets that should have been given to "true"  Liverpool supporters - the scousers.

Although i did my best to ignore them, i found it very intimidating, as did my daughter and she didn't really enjoy the game. In fact she was crying at the start as she was scared that this group of young lads would still be outside the ground at full time and she thought we would not be able to get home. My daughter is eight now and has said she would like to see a match this coming season, she has not been back since that first time. However she has asked if her dad could take her this time as she doesn't want to run into those "idiots" as she calls them. I feel that the first time you take your child to watch the team you support should be a happy, special time that you will never forget, unfortunately my daughter will remember it for all the wrong reasons all because of a minority group of pathetic so-called "fans"
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Postby Rafa D » Fri May 25, 2007 10:39 am

Naomi wrote:Good post. It is true that there are a certain number of "fans" who are bringing down the reputation of true followers of Liverpool. Two seasons ago i took my daughter to her first Liverpool match, she was wearing her Gerrard shirt with pride and couldn't stop smiling that is until we got near to the ground.  Even though she was six at the time and i was the only adult with her ( a youngish mum!), her excitement was spoilt due to a group of "fans" who decided we really shouldn't be at there for a couple of reasons:

1. We were female - and apparently only good for cleaning and other things that thankfully my daughter was too young to understand.

2. We weren't from Liverpool, but Preston. According to them we were using tickets that should have been given to "true"  Liverpool supporters - the scousers.

Although i did my best to ignore them, i found it very intimidating, as did my daughter and she didn't really enjoy the game. In fact she was crying at the start as she was scared that this group of young lads would still be outside the ground at full time and she thought we would not be able to get home. My daughter is eight now and has said she would like to see a match this coming season, she has not been back since that first time. However she has asked if her dad could take her this time as she doesn't want to run into those "idiots" as she calls them. I feel that the first time you take your child to watch the team you support should be a happy, special time that you will never forget, unfortunately my daughter will remember it for all the wrong reasons all because of a minority group of pathetic so-called "fans"

Sorry to hear that Noami.

I hope your daughter has a better time next year.
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Postby Naomi » Fri May 25, 2007 10:49 am

Thanks for the post Rafa-Dodd, im sure she will have a better time, she knows that the majority of Liverpool fans are decent and as i have explained to her it wouldn't matter which team she supported, there would always be some idiots around. She is older now and understands the banter a bit better, it's just a shame that some go too far especially towards children.
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Postby kunilson » Fri May 25, 2007 10:58 am

obviously there will always be a fair few amount of :censored: that support any club.....its annoying to have that small minority grab headlines compared  to the many other true fans..

i support this RTK movement and all, thinks its a great idea and all....but sometimes i think with the business of trying to improve the atmosphere, people start to reveal the old OOt vs scouser debate and hold resentments even when they are not necessary towards other supporters....i would like to see them try some similar sort of movement against these :censored: supporters.
i dont think that its RTK's fault in any way of this happening, but maybe when the focus is on the support of the club...the snakes crawl out from under the rocks and try to make it about something that its not. i think stories like this are good so that fans themselves can do something about it if they see it, cos its obvious the policing is a load of :censored: in situations like this.
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Fri May 25, 2007 10:58 am

Doddy lad you should know better than to listen to some of the tripe posted on RAWK.

Why is it that people assume that cus we are all Liverpool fans that we are upstanding memebers of the community.

You hear stuff like "Liverpool fans where robbing off Liverpool fans - thats disguisting". Well fu.ck me but unless I have been asleep for ten years Liverpool fans rob off Liverpool fans when they burlgle properties across the city. They also steal cars from fellow Liverpudlians and steal from the business' of Liverpudlians.

The same thing happens in EVERY city in EVERY town in EVERY country all over the World.

Just cus they all happen to follow the same team DOES NOT mean that they will stop being theives, muggers, rapists, peadoes, fraudsters or any other such type.

He who is without sin should cast the first stone ? ? ?
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Postby puroresu » Fri May 25, 2007 11:01 am

Its disgusting.  I feel sorry for he fans with legimitate tickets who were refused entry.  The people with no tickets who got in kept those people out. Note UEFA need to look at the organisation as people without tickets shouldnt be able to get in.

I was at the league cup final v chelsea a couple years back and there were some fans behind me who never had tickets (dont know how they got it) and refused to leave the seats for 3 elderly fans with tickets.  I have read stories before of fans Liverpool fans being robbed by other liverpool fans for there tickets on the day of games.

The point about celtic is perfect.  They took 70,000 to Seville and there was no trouble at all. There was no stories of fans with tickets being locked out and the people and police had nothing but praise for celtic.

70,000 fans from any english club invading a european city would send the city into panic mode.
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Postby kunilson » Fri May 25, 2007 11:03 am

yeah the bad "english" supporter thing is getting annoying....half the time its the police with itchy trigger fingers that start off trouble
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Postby Rafa D » Fri May 25, 2007 11:07 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:Doddy lad you should know better than to listen to some of the tripe posted on RAWK.

Why is it that people assume that cus we are all Liverpool fans that we are upstanding memebers of the community.

You hear stuff like "Liverpool fans where robbing off Liverpool fans - thats disguisting". Well fu.ck me but unless I have been asleep for ten years Liverpool fans rob off Liverpool fans when they burlgle properties across the city. They also steal cars from fellow Liverpudlians and steal from the business' of Liverpudlians.

The same thing happens in EVERY city in EVERY town in EVERY country all over the World.

Just cus they all happen to follow the same team DOES NOT mean that they will stop being theives, muggers, rapists, peadoes, fraudsters or any other such type.

He who is without sin should cast the first stone ? ? ?

Leon I know what your saying and I defended us to the hilt yesterday in work and then got in and seen us "storming" the police at the gates to the stadium.

Storming the gates.

It was a few few hundred not a select few.

UEFA fu.cked up the allocation and are partly to blame but we need to sort this type of sh.it out mate.

UEFA are looking for any excuse.
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Postby Red26 » Fri May 25, 2007 11:07 am

Most football fans are essentially the same. And most sets of supporters will have a minority of :censored:. It's only deluded Liverpool fans who think they are the 'best supporters in the world'.
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Postby kunilson » Fri May 25, 2007 11:11 am

Red26 wrote:Most football fans are essentially the same. And most sets of supporters will have a minority of :censored:. It's only deluded Liverpool fans who think they are the 'best supporters in the world'.

here it goes...
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Postby Rafa D » Fri May 25, 2007 11:14 am

Don't think UEFA are getting away without any blame.

UEFA created the shortage of tickets for genuine supporters and by distributing tickets to their UEFA family, the majority of which had no intention of going, also engineered the black market for tickets.

This market meant supporters 'thought' that they had the chance of picking up tickets in Athens so they travelled without and these travellers become easy targets for unscrupulous :censored: with forgeries.

It all comes back to who UEFA give their tickets to in the first place, if each club were given thirty thousand each then the majority who wanted would have got and those who didn't would have known travelling there without was pointless because all the tickets were already in the hands of those intending to go to the game.

I know UEFA still has to reserve tickets but 45% of those available is tearing the :censored: out of it a bit.

Then it comes to the match, too many at the stadium, fears of a crush and a free for all. Chancers getting in and genuine ticket holders locked out and tear gassed. Why should people paying good money to travel be expected to also look out for themselves, that is what the police, militia and stewarts are there for. Christ knows there is enough money available to finance the control of the event properly.

LFC and The Supporters Club must demand an answer from UEFA as to what they are going to do to rectify the mistakes and that they give genuine and sincere assurances that it won't happen again.

Liverpool supporters, supporters of all clubs, cannot rely on authorities not to :censored: it up and open the door for tragedy, because it's not going to be the 'UEFA Family' members lying on mortuary tables.
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Postby Naomi » Fri May 25, 2007 11:20 am

LFC and The Supporters Club must demand an answer from UEFA as to what they are going to do to rectify the mistakes and that they give genuine and sincere assurances that it won't happen again.

Liverpool supporters, supporters of all clubs, cannot rely on authorities not to it up and open the door for tragedy, because it's not going to be the 'UEFA Family' members lying on mortuary tables


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Postby Sabre » Fri May 25, 2007 11:25 am

With all that UEFA failures to prepare the final, I just have yet another reason to be happy for not having faced Manchester United in the final. I can't imagine what could have happened.
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Postby Rafa D » Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 am

Sabre wrote:With all that UEFA failures to prepare the final, I just have yet another reason to be happy for not having faced Manchester United in the final. I can't imagine what could have happened.

If we would of got United. I would of been seriously worried.
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