Liverpool FC Forum

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:30 am

peewee wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:In a nutshell, you're full of sh*t. THAT is the sheer fact of the matter. I say this as I DO go to the game as often as I am able. (Bear in mind I live 125 miles away from Anfield, and work evenings and weekends, so it's not exactly an easy task. This, on top of the fact that it costs me £50 in petrol and then the price of a ticket.) But hey - why let these facts get in the way, huh? I suppose I should alter my entire career so I can go to every game just so I have more weight behind my opinions on here?

Get your facts straight before trying to belittle me.

I said that "expecting" LFC to win the title this year after so long without it was "idiotic". (The premise, not the individual.) How is this a moot point? It's f*cking OBVIOUS that it's downright daft to expect us to win the title. "Hope" we win it - ok. "Think we had a good chance" - fine.

"Expect"? Naive and beyond all sense.

You say the blame for this year's failure to land the league lies squarely at Rafa's door, yet you lambast the players for their ineptitude in other threads. (I suppose their drop in form is Rafa's fault for playing them out of position?)

You said not too long ago that the current side wasn't good enough, then, as soon as you saw an opportunity to have yet ANOTHER dig at Sabre (yes - I am in total disagreement with you on that, too.), you jumped at it and agreed with Bigmick when he said the squad is strong enough to win the title.

THEN - and this is the REAL f*cking joke, THEN you have the downright audacity to complain when people mention the word "fickle"! That, my friend, is like me moaning that someone swears too much.

Look - I don't really give a f*ck about your feelings on this. You know where I stand, and I know where you stand. We've got on ever since I joined this forum, but the way you have hounded Sabre is f*cking shameful, and I for one think you should have been banned for it long ago. Someone's got to say it, cos this is absolutely pathetic. I am no saint, but I have never constantly antagonised anyone for such a protracted amount of time.

Regarding the age issue, I'd say there's a lot of wisdom to be gained by getting older, but sadly it's lost when it comes to football. People naturally yearn for the "good old days", when anyone with an ounce of common sense will tell you that the "way so-and-so won it" back in 1975 WILL NO LONGER WORK now.

Times have changed. The winning Formula 1 car of 1975 wouldn't even beat a Vauxhall Astra now.
The 100m World Record of 1975 probably wouldn't even get you 6th place today.

It's this reluctance to accept new methods and forward thinking that will hold any club, person, or enterprise back indefinitely.

What a lot of you need to remember, is that when Shankly first came to Liverpool, his ideas were radical - even more so than Rafa's, and they revolutionised the sport. Do you think they were implemented seamlessly? This was decades before I was born, but even I know that they were not. There was a lot of doubt in peoples minds from what I have read, then when the ideas began paying off, those same people came around to the idea.

Well - call me what you will, but I'd say a European Cup (and a final to come), an FA Cup, a Super Cup and our largest Premiership points total ever constitute Rafa's ideas "paying off."

I think some of you have been spoilt by the club's past successes and naively take such success for granted.

And moaning about Rafa and his methods, then cheering us on in the Champions' League final is, in my honest view, fickle.

cant be bothered reading it as it will have more of the narrow minded dross that you have posted before. followed up with excuses about why the season has been bad

so just to keep the peace i will say

rafa is the best manager in the world
alonso is the best player in the world
finishing 21 points behind the mancs is all part of rafas masterplan
buying gonzalez was a master stroke, its up there with the signing of nunez
playing a weakend team so many times this season has ensured that our players are fit for the end of the season (although the majority of them havent played at the end of this season so no point in saving them really)
its 20 years since we won the league so its ok to wait another 7 years while rafa decides on his best team.

you talk about comparrisons earlier, you compare our situation to fergie waiting 7 years but then criticise me for comparing things.

this is how you sound lando

get real then i will take you seriously on this, but while you sit there condoning the performances this season i will just sit and laugh at you from now on, i though you had some sense, always thought you were quite intelligent despite the childish rants and abuse at other posters, but you attitude the last few day defending the indefensible is just comical.

anyway no doubt it will be me who gets the stick for the thread being ruined despite me just airing my view so i will leave it there.

obviously the fat you havent had a go at mick for having the same opinions as me make this pretty personal on your part and nothing to do with my football views so any more rubbish just pm it to me to save other posters the squabble

Your both slightly gay and need your heads knocking together.

Note* I said slightly gay

by **Sabre** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:32 am

Were as Rafa would assess his options and go for the best chance of winning something ,and sacrifice the other comps.

That's Rafa's mind yes. But not at the start of the season, only when things do not go well, then you sacrifice when you see it's not realistic.

If you are fighting a battle with 4 men and are outnumbered against 100, it's better to them retreat, join other guys and come back to fight the bástards, rather than to be a hero. A dead hero, that is.

I'm sure that with the proper SQUAD (not starting eleven) Rafa won't play dubious line ups against Arsenal in the cup, or against some oppositions in the league.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:33 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Your both slightly gay and need your heads knocking together.

Note* I said slightly gay

by **RedorDead** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:43 am

I want to start by saying that I do not feel that this season as a whole has been a disappointment and a failure as some are saying. Success is measured in so many ways but in terms of football I think success can be considered achieved when a team improves year on year.
Rafa has had three full years with us now and I am more than happy with his achievements, two european cup finals, the FA Cup and signs of progress in the league.
The league is why questions are being raised. The 20 point gap is the worry and I can understand that but you can't just look at the final table and assess a season. We got off to a shocking start particularly on the road and were adrift by christmas but our form improved and over the latter half of the season we all but matched the top two. The same happened last season when we were out of it early but then kept pace.
There is clearly room for more improvement, we certainly need to start the league season better and more consistantly. Rafa has proved his skills in out various cup successes but he needs to start applying that skill to the league.
I also feel that Rafa needs to buy a little better, every single transfer is a gamble....look at Shevchenko at Chelsea for example, but the fact is some of our purchases have been poor. Arbeloa is the latest aquisition I cannot see making the grade. Rafa has of course done very well with some transfers, Kuyt, Xabi, Sissoko, Agger...these are players who will bring success to our club and I hope stay with us for many years performing as they do now but we cannot afford more Bellamy's, Josemi's and the like. The responsibility lies with these players too, to grab the oppurtinity they have been given to play for our magnificent club and some of those mentioned have shown no desire to win and achieve success with us.
To sum up I feel this season can only be seen as successful on the whole, a European Cup final is a massive achievement in itself and should we win it that would be twice in three years. That is no fluke and can only point to the strength of our squad and the ability of the management team to achieve results. Hopefully that will be shown in league form next season too, from the very first weekend.

by **supersub** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:54 am

I don't consider it a huge dissappointment to be in the European Cup Final;perhaps the league campaign wasn't brilliant but the week ahead more than makes up for that.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:09 am

i know what you are saying supersub, but just suppose we went out in the semis.

would you then be saying this season was a disaster? the point is our season is reliant on wednesday night, but our season could so easily have been over in the quarter finals (speaking hypothetically, we were never close to losng that game but we could have been)

by **supersub** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:17 am

peewee wrote:i know what you are saying supersub, but just suppose we went out in the semis.

would you then be saying this season was a disaster? the point is our season is reliant on wednesday night, but our season could so easily have been over in the quarter finals (speaking hypothetically, we were never close to losng that game but we could have been)

All achievements can be dismissed with the use of a "what if"

What if Everton's goalie hadn't fu.cked up against the mancs and "ugly nevvie" didn't gift a goal.

Every game has a "what if"

The thing is we never lost the semi and we will be in Athens next week.

by **dawson99** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:22 am

i wanna know why we are still just buying 'squad players' like veronin. what we need is to add class to the squad we have, not add more squad players who dont cut the mustard at the top of the tree.

im disspointed with the league but will cheer us on in the champs league. not fickle, just a fan who wants better in the premiership

by **Rafa D** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:24 am

Redstavro wrote:well what happens if we dont win the title next season do we look for a new manager then.

Redstavro wrote:what this club has achieved in the last 3 seasons is nothing short of a miracle. remember manure fans singing CL you having a laugh and us thinking they were right. then we won it from nowhere. lol. and this year hopefully well prove it was no flash in the pan we definitely are the best team in europe. and it gets right up there noses.
all i am saying is keep the faith.

Two excellent points here from Redstarvo.

I see many people sidestepped the first question.

For me, no I'd keep Rafa for as long as he wants to be here.

Anyone else care to answer?

by **Ciggy** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:48 am

First off in the summer we have to go out and buy a world class right winger and a better left back than Riise and one world class striker, depending on Harry Kewells fitness and Gonzales rumoured to be heading back to Spain we may possibly need a new left winger also.

When I say world class I mean 20 odd million pound players not bargain basement sales or 3th and 4th choice on the list.

Man U have won the league due to Ronaldo, Rooney and Scholes, Chelsea won their two leagues due to Cole, Robben, and Drogba.

We may not be as far off as people think now we have money we have earned around 40 million through the CL already plus the new sky money, so there is no excuse next season if these type of players dont get bought.

Unless ofcourse they dont fancy a move to Liverpool then thats nothing to do with the club its the individual.

Rival fans Ive spoken two have said Liverpools problem is the wingers and a top draw goal scorer, well we can see this aswell.

Another problem that we have is that winning mentality to go through 38 games wanting to win every single one of them, the lack of motivation for years and years now is dreadful TBH.
The players be it this team or the one from 10 years has still this mentality of not being @rsed over 38 league games.

Was there some sort of truth in Jose's statement Liverpool are a cup team (probably) out cry from some of us Yes you bet as the truth hurts.

We can beat anyone on our day but we cant beat everyone, no one fears us everyone fears Man U I even think Liverpool do at times the performances we have put in against them at OT have been nothing short of pathetic.

We have to get rid of this hoodoo we need the fear factor back, once teams are scared of you your job becomes slightly easier some teams are already resigned to losing even before they play, Chelsea and Man u, where as it used to be only us they where petrified of.

Winning the CL for the 6th time (fingers crossed) wont change a thing in the prem, it didnt after number 5 and it wont after number 6 should we win.

The summer will be interesting as in what new players come in and I will be very dissapionted should we buy 5-6 squad players instead of 3-4 quality players that can bring us the title or have a damn good good at trying to win it.

And ofcourse not meddeling around and chopping and changing players just for the sake of it.
Rafas biggest downfall in my eyes is this he is stubborn will he change his methods?
I doubt it and if we win number six he will say I was right and continue doing what he thinks is right rotating the squad

by **112-1077774096** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:07 am

Ciggy wrote:Another problem that we have is that winning mentality to go through 38 games wanting to win every single one of them, the lack of motivation for years and years now is dreadful TBH.
The players be it this team or the one from 10 years has still this mentality of not being @rsed over 38 league games.

And ofcourse not meddeling around and chopping and changing players just for the sake of it.
Rafas biggest downfall in my eyes is this he is stubborn will he change his methods?
I doubt it and if we win number six he will say I was right and continue doing what he thinks is right rotating the squad

exactly cigs, apart from even if we win the champions league next week it still hasnt worked this season, he needs to stop chopping and changing.

i seriously dont know how anyone can defend it when we are so far behind the winners and second place

by **Ciggy** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:09 am

My prediction is this exactly same topic will be getting spkoen about on here at the same time next year

by **112-1077774096** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:11 am

the same time next year??

i agree

by **supersub** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:14 am

Ciggy wrote:My prediction is this exactly same topic will be getting spkoen about on here at the same time

Hope not because Moscow is a tough journey and I can't afford to placate the wife anymore.

Divorce is a near certainty if we reach the Champions League Final again within the next 2-3 years.

by **Ciggy** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:21 am

Thing is though all jokes aside we dont have the god given right to win the prem not matter how much we harp on about it.
One things for certain and I can put my hand on my heart and say I was not one bit jealous of the mancs or chelsea winning the title not one bit unlike the bluenoses and mancs who are totally obsessed with us we must be doing something right when the mancs cant get us out of thier heads and sing about us more than their own team when they play.

And sometimes we have to count ourselves lucky in a way that most clubs would give their right arm to have won and experienced everything we have been through all the finals and tropheys we have won.

Atleast Ive seen my team win things evertonains have seen one FA Cup in the last 20 years and Newcastle fans 1 trophey in 50 years and an Inter Toto Cup so its not all bad is it

Liverpool FC Forum

A hugely disappointing season....on many fronts - Let not athens distract you....

Who is online