Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:35 am

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
s@int wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
s@int wrote:
this is getting ridiculous but maybe you havent taken into consideration that united bought two of the best young players on the planet, and this season, as all young players do, they developed.
they developed into very, very good players, infact one particular player who was once thought of as a show pony who dived too much developed into in popular opinion ( but not mine) along with kaka one of the two best players on the planet.
we may have spent more than them in one summer but when ferguson invests mega money in top young talent the season before he doesnt need to spend much, he just has to sit back and let it grow.

So we should just forget the league until Ronaldo and Rooney are too old to play? I also remember that we had first go at Ronaldo and didn't sign him, we went for the better options Diouf then Cisse. (Thank you Phil)

I am not saying Rafa is a bad manager, hes done great in the cups but he has disappointed me in the league. I expected a title challenge this season. Maybe you didn't. Maybe you think less of the players than I do. I thought we had the quality to at least mount a challenge, obviously you dont.

no mate, in jamie carragher and especially steven gerrard i`m watching 2 of the best players i`ve ever seen pull on a red shirt, but i also know i`ve been watching them since 1975 and i`ve never seen a worse liverpool side so devoid of confidence as the one houllier left to benitez.
i just dont expect a man to turn around the worst side i`ve seen in 30 years into probably one of the best in 3 years.

How many of that "worst side in 30 years" played in the CL Final? That worst side in 30 years came 4th in the league, and had more than one or two great players in it.

So it wasn't THAT bad. Admittedly it wasnt THAT good either, but I expected us to be mounting a challenge this season,we didn't and so I am disappointed. You obviously expected us not to challange as we havent spent as much money as the Mancs and Chavs. If your happy with our league form thats great, but allow me to be disappointed.

that side came 5th in the league, and the only reason they won the european cup was because in the short time benitez had them he installed some self belief into them, something houllier sucked out of them.
under houllier a liverpool side hadnt turned around a 1 goal deficit in any competition in over 2 years. 2 years!!
you honestly think they would have come back from 3 down under houllier against watford never mind milan or olympiacos.
thats why i think benitez is so good, because i`m convinced ferguson nor mourinho nor wenger or anybody could have won the champions league with that team.
be dissapointed all you want mate thats your choice, but i`m beyond that `how come we aint winning the league` phase, in fact i grew out of that about 95 / 96.
now i`m just grateful for any success and i`m very grateful that fate has given us a manager like rafa benitez whom i believe given time will bring the league back to anfield.

I meant "the worst side in 30 years" came 4th under Houllier. Rafa's team came 5th

Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor.
Bill Shankly

by **Redstavro** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:36 am

what this club has achieved in the last 3 seasons is nothing short of a miracle. remember manure fans singing CL you having a laugh and us thinking they were right. then we won it from nowhere. lol. and this year hopefully well prove it was no flash in the pan we definitely are the best team in europe. and it gets right up there noses.
all i am saying is keep the faith.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:46 am

s@int wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
s@int wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
s@int wrote:
this is getting ridiculous but maybe you havent taken into consideration that united bought two of the best young players on the planet, and this season, as all young players do, they developed.
they developed into very, very good players, infact one particular player who was once thought of as a show pony who dived too much developed into in popular opinion ( but not mine) along with kaka one of the two best players on the planet.
we may have spent more than them in one summer but when ferguson invests mega money in top young talent the season before he doesnt need to spend much, he just has to sit back and let it grow.

So we should just forget the league until Ronaldo and Rooney are too old to play? I also remember that we had first go at Ronaldo and didn't sign him, we went for the better options Diouf then Cisse. (Thank you Phil)

I am not saying Rafa is a bad manager, hes done great in the cups but he has disappointed me in the league. I expected a title challenge this season. Maybe you didn't. Maybe you think less of the players than I do. I thought we had the quality to at least mount a challenge, obviously you dont.

no mate, in jamie carragher and especially steven gerrard i`m watching 2 of the best players i`ve ever seen pull on a red shirt, but i also know i`ve been watching them since 1975 and i`ve never seen a worse liverpool side so devoid of confidence as the one houllier left to benitez.
i just dont expect a man to turn around the worst side i`ve seen in 30 years into probably one of the best in 3 years.

How many of that "worst side in 30 years" played in the CL Final? That worst side in 30 years came 4th in the league, and had more than one or two great players in it.

So it wasn't THAT bad. Admittedly it wasnt THAT good either, but I expected us to be mounting a challenge this season,we didn't and so I am disappointed. You obviously expected us not to challange as we havent spent as much money as the Mancs and Chavs. If your happy with our league form thats great, but allow me to be disappointed.

that side came 5th in the league, and the only reason they won the european cup was because in the short time benitez had them he installed some self belief into them, something houllier sucked out of them.
under houllier a liverpool side hadnt turned around a 1 goal deficit in any competition in over 2 years. 2 years!!
you honestly think they would have come back from 3 down under houllier against watford never mind milan or olympiacos.
thats why i think benitez is so good, because i`m convinced ferguson nor mourinho nor wenger or anybody could have won the champions league with that team.
be dissapointed all you want mate thats your choice, but i`m beyond that `how come we aint winning the league` phase, in fact i grew out of that about 95 / 96.
now i`m just grateful for any success and i`m very grateful that fate has given us a manager like rafa benitez whom i believe given time will bring the league back to anfield.

I meant "the worst side in 30 years" came 4th under Houllier. Rafa's team came 5th

Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor.
Bill Shankly

yeah but another writer w. somerset maugham wrote a book based on the phrase be careful whilst looking at the moon that you dont miss the sixpence at your feet.
putting your head in the clouds and having unrealistic targets can fuel criticism which can transmit to a manager who thinks ` fook this i`m off to madrid`.
no one needs to tell me where this club should be or what it should aspire to be, i grew up kicking a ball against the walls of the kop playing 3 and in`s with my mates and even those old square windows at the top with the iron mesh looked like windows to heaven to me, but its because this club has meant so much to me and my family that i dont want unrealistic ambition to put undue pressure on a manager that i honestly believe is the real deal.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:50 am

If you think it was unrealistic to expect us to challenge for the title, thats up to you mate. I thought it was a realistic goal. I expected us to be challenging this season. Therefore I am disappointed that we didn't. I am sure Rafa will get over my disappointment and continue to manage Liverpool despite any undue pressure I may have put on him.

And while you were outside kicking your ball , I was inside cheering the reds on.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:55 am

s@int wrote:If you think it was unrealistic to expect us to challenge for the title, thats up to you mate. I thought it was a realistic goal. I expected us to be challenging this season. Therefore I am disappointed that we didn't. I am sure Rafa will get over my disappointment and continue to manage Liverpool despite any undue pressure I may have put on him.

And while you were outside kicking your ball , I was inside cheering the reds on.

you must have had a few bob then, we were skint :;):

by **Bad Bob** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:37 am

From where I sit, yckat... and Saint are both making reasonable points that are in no way mutually exclusive.

While it is true that Rafa has done a brilliant job in a short amount of time with a limited amount of money relative to our main rivals and thus deserves our patience and support...

It is equally true that our slow start, our poor form on the road and our lack of killer instinct against teams that were there for the taking (and that includes the likes of the Mancs at Anfield as well as the likes of Sheffield United away) has meant we've taken a step back in the league this season which, no matter how you dress it up, is disappointing--at least for me.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:04 am

I actually think that Rafa has surpassed all expectation, and in 3 years has given this club it's pride back.

We as a club are fighting against teams with much more money, and certain fans "expect" us to win the title.

Well I say - be grateful for what we've achieved, because no other manager in the history of the game would have got us THIS much.
Why don't people just HOPE to win the title? How anyone can "expect" us to after an absence of 18 years is, quite frankly, idiotic.
From 1990 to 25th May 2005 we were a nothing club, feeding on the scraps the rich kids ignored.
Then Rafa's brilliance showed, and we took the biggest prize in club football. For club football fans - the Champions' League is the biggest thing your team can win. Seeing as we Liverpool fans all shun England, that is our Holy Grail. The league may be our bread and butter (to use the cliche), but the European Cup is the f*cking 10-course King's banquet, whether people want to admit that or not.

I am certain that in years to come people will look back on Rafa as one of the best managers in the history of football. I know that may upset people determined to live in the past, but the fact is he's outstripped everyone so far, and that's without half of his first choice signings. He came here to take charge of a bag of sh*t and won the big one.

Make no mistake - up to now, Rafa has been fighting the World's two most powerful clubs with one arm tied behind his back. Whiskey nose and that whining Portugese a*se-sniffer had better get out of the ring sharpish, cos if the Yanks are to be believed, Rafa's about to bring his slugging arm back into play, and the two c*nts are gonna get their f*cking heads knocked off.

Here's the simple, inescapable fact:

Not one Liverpool fan* would swap Rafa for any other manager in the entire World.

That, friends, speaks volumes.

* Someone who actually cares about the club, rather than a wind-up merchant destined to have his a*se raped by a legion of rampant Rhinos at London Zoo.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:07 am

I am not so sure about the less money bit Bob. I was just having a look on soccerbase and according to them and my adding up( both could be wrong) Rafa has spent £81 million not counting Cisse in 3 years . Ferguson has spent £52 million in three years. Now I know Ferguson obviously had a better starting point but I was still surprised by those figures. Especially when you consider who we have sold(and for how much!) While the Mancs have sold Van Nistelroy and Beckham.

by **bigmick** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:08 am

If we are going to judge our ability to challenge for the title based on whether we have spent enough money, or as much money as Man U and Chelsea then we are never going to win it again. Chelsea will continue to outspend everyone, while we cannot in the short term compete with Man Utd for sheer spending power.

There's more to it than that though. This season we've put out the reigning Champions of England in the European Cup, we've put out the reigning champions of both spain and Europe, and absolutely spanked the team that put out Arsenal. But we're not good enough to beat the Sheffield Uniteds of this World away from home? Do me a favour. Those who defend our league effort inadvertantly do Rafa a huge diservice. He's already built a team that is capable of a challenge, if he sends them out more often than not and stops fecking around with formation/selections/positions. We don't need five World Class players and more money than Chelsea to mount a title challenge, the team was good enough this season to mount a challenge. If only we'd gone for it. :no

by **account deleted by request** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:14 am

bigmick wrote:If we are going to judge our ability to challenge for the title based on whether we have spent enough money, or as much money as Man U and Chelsea then we are never going to win it again. Chelsea will continue to outspend everyone, while we cannot in the short term compete with Man Utd for sheer spending power.

There's more to it than that though. This season we've put out the reigning Champions of England in the European Cup, we've put out the reigning champions of both spain and Europe, and absolutely spanked the team that put out Arsenal. But we're not good enough to beat the Sheffield Uniteds of this World away from home? Do me a favour. Those who defend our league effort inadvertantly do Rafa a huge diservice. He's already built a team that is capable of a challenge, if he sends them out more often than not and stops fecking around with formation/selections/positions. We don't need five World Class players and more money than Chelsea to mount a title challenge, the team was good enough this season to mount a challenge. If only we'd gone for it.

Where were you when I needed you

by **red_guy** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:27 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:I actually think that Rafa has surpassed all expectation, and in 3 years has given this club it's pride back.

We as a club are fighting against teams with much more money, and certain fans "expect" us to win the title.

Well I say - be grateful for what we've achieved, because no other manager in the history of the game would have got us THIS much.
Why don't people just HOPE to win the title? How anyone can "expect" us to after an absence of 18 years is, quite frankly, idiotic.
From 1990 to 25th May 2005 we were a nothing club, feeding on the scraps the rich kids ignored.
Then Rafa's brilliance showed, and we took the biggest prize in club football. For club football fans - the Champions' League is the biggest thing your team can win. Seeing as we Liverpool fans all shun England, that is our Holy Grail. The league may be our bread and butter (to use the cliche), but the European Cup is the f*cking 10-course King's banquet, whether people want to admit that or not.

I am certain that in years to come people will look back on Rafa as one of the best managers in the history of football. I know that may upset people determined to live in the past, but the fact is he's outstripped everyone so far, and that's without half of his first choice signings. He came here to take charge of a bag of sh*t and won the big one.

Make no mistake - up to now, Rafa has been fighting the World's two most powerful clubs with one arm tied behind his back. Whiskey nose and that whining Portugese a*se-sniffer had better get out of the ring sharpish, cos if the Yanks are to be believed, Rafa's about to bring his slugging arm back into play, and the two c*nts are gonna get their f*cking heads knocked off.

Here's the simple, inescapable fact:

Not one Liverpool fan* would swap Rafa for any other manager in the entire World.

That, friends, speaks volumes.

* Someone who actually cares about the club, rather than a wind-up merchant destined to have his a*se raped by a legion of rampant Rhinos at London Zoo.

Spot on Lando. I'm with you on this .

by **112-1077774096** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:38 am

bigmick wrote:I know I'm probably in a minority of one here, but I think we were good enough this season to have had a real go in the league. THAT'S why it's so disappointing, and our success in Europe effectively confirms the impression that we actually ain't a bad team, and therefore makes it worse.

not just you mick, i am in the same camp, i am also disgusted the way we threw way the title in the first month of the season with very very poor management

by **112-1077774096** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:53 am

bigmick wrote:If we are going to judge our ability to challenge for the title based on whether we have spent enough money, or as much money as Man U and Chelsea then we are never going to win it again. Chelsea will continue to outspend everyone, while we cannot in the short term compete with Man Utd for sheer spending power.

There's more to it than that though. This season we've put out the reigning Champions of England in the European Cup, we've put out the reigning champions of both spain and Europe, and absolutely spanked the team that put out Arsenal. But we're not good enough to beat the Sheffield Uniteds of this World away from home? Do me a favour. Those who defend our league effort inadvertantly do Rafa a huge diservice. He's already built a team that is capable of a challenge, if he sends them out more often than not and stops fecking around with formation/selections/positions. We don't need five World Class players and more money than Chelsea to mount a title challenge, the team was good enough this season to mount a challenge. If only we'd gone for it.

again i agree with you mick, it doesnt matter who we have in our squad if they are going to be sat in the stands, or on the bench, or played out of position or not getting the service as we are too busy playing defensive football against a team who is about as threatening as a toothless pussy cat.

it doesnt come down to money and its idiotic to thing that money has been our only downfall.

yes we have shown we can perform, so why havent we performed? its simple, because when we perform the very next game the team looks unfamiliar because rafa wants to rest players,and rest them for what exactly? on the off chance that we will still have something to play for.

a lot of you are missing our points i think, you seem to be taking this as a 'rafa out' campaign and none of us are saying that, we are just pointing out why this season has been disapointing, ok you can point to many excuses (world cup, injuries, new players blah blah blah) and to be frank they are pathetic excuses, i must have missed the manc players and chelsea players at the world cup, and they had injuries, and they had new players.

the buck stops at rafas door, he is human, he makes mistakes, more mistakes than a lot of you will admit to as you stumble on blindly thinking the sun shines out of rafas @rse, and think everything he does is a tactical masterstroke, while those of us who like to be honest about it sit and wonder why we are 21 points behind the mancs, and can see clearly that we are 21 points behind the mancs because of rafas inability to field strong teams against every club, and take each game seriously

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:06 am

s@int wrote:I am not so sure about the less money bit Bob. I was just having a look on soccerbase and according to them and my adding up( both could be wrong) Rafa has spent £81 million not counting Cisse in 3 years . Ferguson has spent £52 million in three years. Now I know Ferguson obviously had a better starting point but I was still surprised by those figures. Especially when you consider who we have sold(and for how much!) While the Mancs have sold Van Nistelroy and Beckham.

While Rafa has spent £81m on players, he has also recouped £41m So in essence, he has only really spent £40m. (About 1 player to the scum and Sh*tski.)

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:30 am

peewee wrote:
bigmick wrote:If we are going to judge our ability to challenge for the title based on whether we have spent enough money, or as much money as Man U and Chelsea then we are never going to win it again. Chelsea will continue to outspend everyone, while we cannot in the short term compete with Man Utd for sheer spending power.

There's more to it than that though. This season we've put out the reigning Champions of England in the European Cup, we've put out the reigning champions of both spain and Europe, and absolutely spanked the team that put out Arsenal. But we're not good enough to beat the Sheffield Uniteds of this World away from home? Do me a favour. Those who defend our league effort inadvertantly do Rafa a huge diservice. He's already built a team that is capable of a challenge, if he sends them out more often than not and stops fecking around with formation/selections/positions. We don't need five World Class players and more money than Chelsea to mount a title challenge, the team was good enough this season to mount a challenge. If only we'd gone for it.

again i agree with you mick, it doesnt matter who we have in our squad if they are going to be sat in the stands, or on the bench, or played out of position or not getting the service as we are too busy playing defensive football against a team who is about as threatening as a toothless pussy cat.

it doesnt come down to money and its idiotic to thing that money has been our only downfall.

yes we have shown we can perform, so why havent we performed? its simple, because when we perform the very next game the team looks unfamiliar because rafa wants to rest players,and rest them for what exactly? on the off chance that we will still have something to play for.

a lot of you are missing our points i think, you seem to be taking this as a 'rafa out' campaign and none of us are saying that, we are just pointing out why this season has been disapointing, ok you can point to many excuses (world cup, injuries, new players blah blah blah) and to be frank they are pathetic excuses, i must have missed the manc players and chelsea players at the world cup, and they had injuries, and they had new players.

the buck stops at rafas door, he is human, he makes mistakes, more mistakes than a lot of you will admit to as you stumble on blindly thinking the sun shines out of rafas @rse, and think everything he does is a tactical masterstroke, while those of us who like to be honest about it sit and wonder why we are 21 points behind the mancs, and can see clearly that we are 21 points behind the mancs because of rafas inability to field strong teams against every club, and take each game seriously

Why do you always have to make out those who disagree with you are simpletons or liars?

You call your summary of our season "honesty", whereas I call my summary "realism."

To expect this club to win the title 3 years into a totally new regime, where the new manager inherited a pile of W*nk as playing staff, is, to me, f*cking deranged.

"It's the Liverpool way..." - is it F*CK! We haven't won the title for nigh on 20 years, and the sooner fans get a grip and realise that Shankly's ways don't cut it anymore, the better.

"Play your best 11 every game" - I bet you'd like half-time oranges and a pint, too? The physical demands on a player are far greater now, and playing every game is no longer possible. Like it or lump it, that's a fact.

Here's an interesting snippet for you:

P*sshead Fergie altered his starting 11 constantly this season, and even managed to rest the diving poof, the fat f*cking b*stard, the Welsh Wilkinson Sword advert, and even the ginger gimp. Woe f*cking betide it when Rafa does it, though! (Despite the fact that we're in the final of the biggest club tournament on Earth AGAIN.)

Despite the fact that Rafa has won more in his career than Rudolph won in the same amount of time, people STILL wish to bitch, p*ss and whine about the best manager walking planet Earth.
Here's ANOTHER funky stat to enrage you doom-mongers even further:

It took that Whiskey-conked jock a*sehole 7 years to win the title at the scum, who were at that time the richest club in England.
He didn't have 2 blank-cheque-carrying c*nts blocking his path, either.

You know what? I always thought that with age came common sense and realism.

Evidently I was wrong. :no

Liverpool FC Forum

A hugely disappointing season....on many fronts - Let not athens distract you....

Who is online