A hugely disappointing season....on many fronts - Let not athens distract you....

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Sabre » Fri May 18, 2007 7:21 pm

League is very important, and since I'm sure LFC will win on wednesday, it should be the main goal next season.

The main goal as in don't sit down Gerrard against Bolton because on wednesday you want to secure the first place in the CL group. If LFC was out of Europe in March this season, they'd have more points than they have now, I'm sure of that.

We all agree the league title should be attacked next season.

Looking at the bright side of winning the CL, apart from the obvious, it prevents temptations of leaving the club as some members of the squad suffered in the past. Owen wouldn't have left never under Rafa. He wanted titles, and he received the worst punnishment, didn't got any in Madrid and LFC started to win cups.

Being in CL finals also help so that the best players of the world want to come to LFC and not Manchester United.

So ultimately, those cups also help in the big goal of winning the league because it allows you to have the best players of the world. Now that LFC has also more money, the squad should be both quality and deep. Which is nice.
Last edited by Sabre on Fri May 18, 2007 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri May 18, 2007 7:52 pm

Unfortunately Liverpool will never win the Premier League now. :(








Hopfully the change next season to Barclays Premier League will lead to a change in our fortunes. :)
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Postby bigmick » Fri May 18, 2007 9:07 pm

I guess where I differ from most posters is not on my opinion of Rafa. I too think he's done an unbeieveable job and is absolutely the right man to lead Liverpool. His achievements visa-vis the Champions League where we have reached two finals and but for one bad performance last season could have gone close again, are absolutely staggering.

The main area in which I differ from almost every poster on here it seems to me, is that I think we are MUCH better than pretty much all the prople who offer their opinion son this forum. I don't accept that we can't unlock defences, nor do I accept that the top two are miles ahead of us as seems to be the consensus. I don't accept either that we need four or five World-class players to win the Premeirship.

I think we have more than enough quality in the final third to mount a title challenge, and I think our squad is strong enough. Yes we haven't got a Christiano Ronaldo, nor a Rooney or a Drogba. Also we don't attack with the same fluency of these teams but there is more than one way to skin a cat. If we can consistently compete with and beat the best teams in Europe Home and Away, which we undoubtedly can and do, then I'm sorry but the sentiment that we don't posess enough guile to break down Aston Villa's defence, or Man City's just doesn't wash with me. What we lack is the intent, the desire to go there and not just beat them but to smash them to pieces. If we went there needing to win by two clear goals to bring home the title I'd put my life on us at least winning the game as we'd swarm all over them. Not in the same way as Man Utd do with Ronaldo and Rooney, or Chelsea do with Drogba and anyone else who can run fast enought to get underneath the up and under, but in our own way. I don't accept that we don't have the quality, NOW to not mount a title challenge.

This is probably why, when I vehemently criticise our tossing away any chance of challenging for the title in the first dozen games of the season with a combination of silly selection/formation/positional rotations and a distinct lack of offensive intent, I get so hot and bothered over it. I know I'm probably in a minority of one here, but I think we were good enough this season to have had a real go in the league. THAT'S why it's so disappointing, and our success in Europe effectively confirms the impression that we actually ain't a bad team, and therefore makes it worse.
Last edited by bigmick on Fri May 18, 2007 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby yckatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri May 18, 2007 10:00 pm

s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
peewee wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:the greatest European Cup final win of all time, the greatest FA cup win of all time and another European Cup final.

and they were the greatest finals because we let both teams put three past us, neither final win was convincing

The convincing finals are never the best, at least Rafa got us there, and got us there with an incredibly depleted squad against some of the best teams in Europe.

Under Houllier we probably a) wouldn't have got there in the first place and b) probably wouldn't have come back from 3 down against AC Milan.

I dont think anyone is trying to say Houllier was a great manager, which is why we are so disappointed that our league positions arn't much better under Benitez.

We never won the Cl under Shankly but no one doubts he was a great manager...... because he won League titles.


I don't doubt Benitez mate, I just wish he would hurry up  :D

shanks won 3 league titles in 15 years, 4 if you count the second division title.
that total when compared to the amount of titles managers like paisley and ferguson won is not really a lot but the man is almost a christ like figure to reds and do you know why?
because back then reds fans had perspective and didnt expect a lot.
shankly took a struggling second division outfit and turned it into a major player in england and europe and reds fans were grateful, they didnt say `why arent we winning the league every year` like fans these days.
if rafa had acheived what he has in front of the fans of the late 50`s / 60`s / early 70`s he would be hero worshipped the same as shanks, its only because this generation of fans are never happy.
they see winning the league as acceptable rather than great success.
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Postby ivor_the_injun » Fri May 18, 2007 10:13 pm

Good post Mick.

It is frustrating to think that we can to the Nou Camp and take Barca apart, but we keep dropping points against the Man Citys, Boltons, Charltons and Sheff Utds.

Sometimes I do think there is a bit of a quality issue, particularly in terms of finishing, but I think 80% of it is simply a lack of killer instinct. If the Gerrard of last season had shown up consistently this season, I daresay he'd have dragged some of the miserable draws into wins.

I genuinely think that our best 11 stacks up brilliantly against Chelsea's and Man U's. They've both got that winning habit in the league that's eluding us at the minute though, plus that extra bit of quality in their squad.

It's not 5 or 6 signings that'll make the difference - it's finding the right one or two additions that'll suddenly make things click for us.

It could've been so different in the league this season if we'd had a fit Kewell and an on-form Gerrard. If we start next season with both of those in place, and a top, top drawer striker up top, we should be in contention.

It's like at Man U - if Scholes had been injured this season like he was last year, I don't think they'd have won the league. Timing's everything in football. It's clicked for us in cups lately, but we seem to get injuries in key positions which we can't adequately cover in our league campaigns, left wing being a perfect example.
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Postby hunterz » Fri May 18, 2007 10:32 pm

On seeing the progress that Rafa has made since he came to liverpool,I think he has made a very remarkable progress..though we became less impressive in the premier league,we did well in the international arena,something that houllier was not able to achieve,and correct me if im wrong,he spent more money than Rafa to buy players.So I think all we need is to give Rafa time,most of us are certain we are lucky enough to finally land ourselves the right manager to manage liverpool.One phenomena I noticed is that a great club need to have a great manager to manage them and plan for them,both for the long and short term.Look at Arsenal and Man U,both have good managers to stay for a decent period of time to build the club.I do not know if the young but talented team of Arsene Wenger is the fruit of Arsenal's own acedemy but he definitely makes Arsenal's future looks good considering the performance of his promising young team this season.Rafa is a good manager that looks at short term as well as long term,as we recently know his decision to undertake the task of training young players so that liverpool can once again "breed" players like fowler,owen and gerrard again.Thats why I feel for the Reds,Rafa is the man :nod
Last edited by hunterz on Fri May 18, 2007 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby redtrader74 » Fri May 18, 2007 10:34 pm

I have to disagree with Mick, i firmly believe that had we one decent ball carrying pacy forward, even Kewell being fit, then we could have mounted a real challenge this year, But the players we had available were just a little short.

We have rarely unlocked top defences, and winning in Europe is about winning the tie, not winning all the games. I am not one for saying we have underperformed, no way, Rafa has achieved far more than anyone hand on heart could have expected.
IMHO our defenders and midfield are good enough, but we are missing one top forward and a fit kewell, i don't think we need 4-5 players, that would be another season or two of consolidation.

I agree that we do lack intent sometimes, and it seem the way we set up against the boltons,villas is to negate them, rather than tear them apart.
I for one would give Rafa plenty of time, as he has shown the form, abilty and desire to win trophies, and as this is probably the hardest period  to win the league.
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri May 18, 2007 10:44 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
peewee wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:the greatest European Cup final win of all time, the greatest FA cup win of all time and another European Cup final.

and they were the greatest finals because we let both teams put three past us, neither final win was convincing

The convincing finals are never the best, at least Rafa got us there, and got us there with an incredibly depleted squad against some of the best teams in Europe.

Under Houllier we probably a) wouldn't have got there in the first place and b) probably wouldn't have come back from 3 down against AC Milan.

I dont think anyone is trying to say Houllier was a great manager, which is why we are so disappointed that our league positions arn't much better under Benitez.

We never won the Cl under Shankly but no one doubts he was a great manager...... because he won League titles.


I don't doubt Benitez mate, I just wish he would hurry up  :D

shanks won 3 league titles in 15 years, 4 if you count the second division title.
that total when compared to the amount of titles managers like paisley and ferguson won is not really a lot but the man is almost a christ like figure to reds and do you know why?
because back then reds fans had perspective and didnt expect a lot.
shankly took a struggling second division outfit and turned it into a major player in england and europe and reds fans were grateful, they didnt say `why arent we winning the league every year` like fans these days.
if rafa had acheived what he has in front of the fans of the late 50`s / 60`s / early 70`s he would be hero worshipped the same as shanks, its only because this generation of fans are never happy.
they see winning the league as acceptable rather than great success.

This generation of fans has never even seen Liverpool as League Champions, so you can't blame them for being impatient. I started watching liverpool in 1968 and it was 1973 before I had the pleasure (I had seen them lift it in '66 but only on tv) so I had a 6 year wait. The young/not so young fans of today have been waiting 17 years and more.

The only difference being they have seen Liverpool winning trophys in the last 17 years whereas Liverpool didn't even win an egg cup from 68 - 73.

However every season I expected a title challenge, just as I do now, even in the dire years 69/70 and 70/71. Maybe because we had a manager who had been there and bought the tea-shirt we were more patient.
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Postby redtrader74 » Fri May 18, 2007 10:49 pm

We have a manager right now, who has been there and bought the tee shirt, it is just that we are far more impatient now than we ever were.
These days, Shanks may have been worried for his job. Fans were fans of the clubs, not of their trophy cabinet, unlike now.
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri May 18, 2007 10:53 pm

redtrader74 wrote:We have a manager right now, who has been there and bought the tee shirt, it is just that we are far more impatient now than we ever were.
These days, Shanks may have been worried for his job. Fans were fans of the clubs, not of their trophy cabinet, unlike now.

No mate Benitez hasnt shown he can win the Prem yet. Hasnt even come close yet!
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Postby redtrader74 » Fri May 18, 2007 10:56 pm

s@int wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:We have a manager right now, who has been there and bought the tee shirt, it is just that we are far more impatient now than we ever were.
These days, Shanks may have been worried for his job. Fans were fans of the clubs, not of their trophy cabinet, unlike now.

No mate Benitez hasnt shown he can win the Prem yet. Hasnt even come close yet!

You spoke of form , and he has won 2 la liga, uefa cup, FA cup, and hopefully by Wed, 2 CL, i'll give him the tee shirt for that! and also my faith and patience.
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Postby Rafa D » Fri May 18, 2007 10:57 pm

I can't think of one other manager I would want in charge of my club right now.

That speaks volumes.
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Postby redtrader74 » Fri May 18, 2007 10:59 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I can't think of one other manager I would want in charge of my club right now.

That speaks volumes.

Well you are an authority on football :D
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Postby yckatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri May 18, 2007 11:00 pm

s@int wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
peewee wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:the greatest European Cup final win of all time, the greatest FA cup win of all time and another European Cup final.

and they were the greatest finals because we let both teams put three past us, neither final win was convincing

The convincing finals are never the best, at least Rafa got us there, and got us there with an incredibly depleted squad against some of the best teams in Europe.

Under Houllier we probably a) wouldn't have got there in the first place and b) probably wouldn't have come back from 3 down against AC Milan.

I dont think anyone is trying to say Houllier was a great manager, which is why we are so disappointed that our league positions arn't much better under Benitez.

We never won the Cl under Shankly but no one doubts he was a great manager...... because he won League titles.


I don't doubt Benitez mate, I just wish he would hurry up  :D

shanks won 3 league titles in 15 years, 4 if you count the second division title.
that total when compared to the amount of titles managers like paisley and ferguson won is not really a lot but the man is almost a christ like figure to reds and do you know why?
because back then reds fans had perspective and didnt expect a lot.
shankly took a struggling second division outfit and turned it into a major player in england and europe and reds fans were grateful, they didnt say `why arent we winning the league every year` like fans these days.
if rafa had acheived what he has in front of the fans of the late 50`s / 60`s / early 70`s he would be hero worshipped the same as shanks, its only because this generation of fans are never happy.
they see winning the league as acceptable rather than great success.

This generation of fans has never even seen Liverpool as League Champions, so you can't blame them for being impatient. I started watching liverpool in 1968 and it was 1973 before I had the pleasure (I had seen them lift it in '66 but only on tv) so I had a 6 year wait. The young/not so young fans of today have been waiting 17 years and more.

The only difference being they have seen Liverpool winning trophys in the last 17 years whereas Liverpool didn't even win an egg cup from 68 - 73.

However every season I expected a title challenge, just as I do now, even in the dire years 69/70 and 70/71. Maybe because we had a manager who had been there and bought the tea-shirt we were more patient.

well dont you think rafa deserves a bit of a break?
as you say the great shanks who had been manager for 9 years won nothing for the following five years, a period i might add where united had their best, law, charlton side and everton their ball, kendall and harvey side (a nightmare for most reds, both their arch rivals the best teams in the land)  but you`d never hear ultimatums like i`ve read on this forum regarding shanks position.
in my eyes rafa has done more given what he took over than any other manager in history could have done, i really mean that.
you only have to look at the likes of gerrard to see how good rafa is.
rafa has never lavished him with praise or sucked up to him like houllier did and rafa has played him out of his favourite position for most of the time but gerrard cant wait to sign, and neither can most of the squad.
rafa emits calm confidence like a lighthouse shines light.
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Postby Scottbot » Fri May 18, 2007 11:07 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:rafa emits calm confidence like a lighthouse shines light.

love that quote mate. Cracking way of putting it   :bowdown
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