A hugely disappointing season....on many fronts - Let not athens distract you....

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Sabre » Wed May 16, 2007 3:12 pm

3) You made no claim to know what Rafa does when trying to sign a player but you said: 'We almost certainly sell the club to these Spanish and Brazilian kids by telling them about these famous European nights'. To which I replied: 'We are Liverpool, a club with a great History, the greatest fan base, the most successful club in England.
'Selling' the club or whatever you want to call it incorporates all of these things and more. It's not a case of okay they've been doing exceptionally well in Europe I'll join them, that will be one of the factors'.
European success is one part of why a player would want to join Liverpool, the strength and depth of the Premiership is another reason, our success in winning 18 league titles, our FA cup and league cup successes are alo things they will see in the trophy cabinet at Anfield. You are effectively trying to suggest that these players aren't aware what they're getting themselves into just because they're from South America, i.e. that the European aspect of our success is a smokescreen for everything else, it's just nonsense.


The Spanish point of view:

Anyone who thinks that Any spaniard is not motivated to play and win in England is wrong.

Some things you must know about the Spaniards:

1) There's not worse insult for a Spaniard than telling him his clueless about footbal. Basically Stu would have a fight in the first bar of San Sebastian he visited as soon as he said get a clue.

2) There's nothing worse for a Spaniard player than be told he's a worse player than other. If you want to wind up a Spaniard, don't make that ridiculous sign of "you're diving". He'll laugh at it. Instead, try to pass him the ball below the legs, a "tunnel" that we say here. You'll wind up him big time and it's likely he'll make a red card tackle next. (Trust me).

3) For a Spaniard player and fans, Football is religion, or more important. It's more important than Jesus Christ. And England is the origin of the religion. And thus has more importance than Jerusalem, or La Mecah for the muslims. Bear that in mind. So joining with the point 2) there's nothing more challenging for a Spaniard to go to the sacred land of football and show they're not worse than any other. And if they can do tunnels to the opposition players, even the better (Luis Garcia loves this).

4) Playing in Europe, a Spaniard player mentality changes. They only dream of winning it, so that they can point out to the Spanish press how well they are in England, how good they are, and how wrong was Barcelona because they didn't give him a chance at some point.

Hope this insight helps to know that there's nothing true about spanish players not being motivated to play in a rainy day against Bolton. In fact, for them that's like playing a game in the basque country, as our climate is identical to yours in the north. So not new stuff for them.

:)
Image
SOS member #1499

Drummerphil, never forgotten.
User avatar
Sabre
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 13178
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:10 am
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Postby ivor_the_injun » Wed May 16, 2007 3:58 pm

F*cking hell. :laugh:

"Unfair and premature"? All I've said is that Mascherano's league performances so far haven't been as good away as they have been at home. We've not seen much of him, fine, so that's what I've judged him on. He's class, and will hopefully improve. I'm really struggling to see what you're finding so controversial about that point of view.

I'm in agreement with absolutely everybody that says our away form is a team-wide problem, but Mascherano's position is one that can dictate the rhythm of the team as a whole. It's the same when Gerrard or Alonso don't play great away - with them not firing, the whole side seems to go stagnant.

As for why any player from anywhere doesn't hack it in the Premiership, it's not a one-thing issue, but I'm saying that - maybe - some people come in with blinkered views, and maybe motivation becomes an issue because the view of the English game from abroad is blinkered.

Morientes came in with a huge reputation, did b*gger all, and then went back to Spain and carried on where he'd left off. I'd say that was a problem with the pace of the game. He did work hard while he was here.

Gonzalez came in with a fairly large reputation of his own, has done b*gger all, and while I think it's a problem of adapting to the English game, I also think there's a serious confidence and motivation problem with him.

How much of this is feelings of inadequacy in his own game, and whether or not a failure to raise himself for dead fixtures against relegated sides is an issue, it could even be because he knows he's on his way out. It's all conjecture. I obviously don't know for sure, and I don't claim to.

And that point you've picked on about "silky pass and move football" is completely backwards. I'm not talking about the Brazilian game there - I'm talking about how LFC play at home, and then the comparative "lob it at the big guy" game we seem to default to away.

MY POINT IN A NUTSHELL: Paletta and Gonzalez are both sh*t, and I would like Rafa Benitez to not buy any more South American players (or players from anywhere, for that matter) of a comparable quality. :D
ivor_the_injun
 
Posts: 2677
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:02 am

Postby LFC2007 » Wed May 16, 2007 4:23 pm

You actually said Mascherano 'didn't have the adaptability' that Alonso did. All I was pointing out is that it is premature to say whether he can adapt to playing in premier league away games when the games he has played so far have counted for little, it would be better to wait until next season when the games count for everything from the beginning to see whether he can adapt to playing away.

I think we actually agree about most things ivore, I just don't agree with your original post saying that South American kids don't know what they're in for when we play at a cold rainy Bramhall lane. It's not remotely to do with nationality, it may be due to the tempo of the game as you rightly point out, but not whether they can hack a rainy day in Yorkshire.

Your in a nutshell point I largely agree with, it's to do with quality not nationality.
User avatar
LFC2007
 
Posts: 7706
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: London

Postby eds » Fri May 18, 2007 6:48 am

I guess the answer to whether you agree this season has been success or not is based on 2 major things:

1) What your expectations were at the start of the season (on all fronts) for LFC?

2) Whether you value overperforming in the CL as compared to underperforming in the domestic league.

For me, I had very high expectations for the season. I thought we would be chasing the Scum and Cheat$ki all the way in the league and wouldn't be out of the race, yet again, in September. I thought we would have at least won one of the two domestic cups and getting into the Q/F of the Champions League as minimum in Europe.

After basing it on my own expectations, I can say that we have been well below standard on 3 fronts and excellent on the European front. What has constantly irratated me is coming onto this forum and seeing members justifying our woeful league performance with excuses, invalid comparisons and the worst....."but we are in the final of the CL!" brigade.

Looking at our current squad, no one can possibly argue against the fact that we are in a better position than 3 years ago under Houllier. Rafa has indeed pulled rabbits from his hat in winning us two major trophies and being in another final for a 3rd major (in 3 years). But the problem that keeps frustrating me (and I know a lot of supporters out there) is how well he has been able to manage this yet how wrong he had got it in terms of performing in the league?   

The way I see it, this year has been a disaster in the league. Finishing 3rd (only by goal difference!) and having lost and drawn so many games has been a bitter disappointment (as compared to last year and our points tally) And the reality of things is that from day one we never looked like challenging for the title. Rafa's only shrewd transfer was Mascherano as the rest have been "reasonable" to average at best. I know that some are you are going to come on and give the same old excuses, "he hasn't had enough to bring in quality", "we are still rebuilding" or the classic used by many on here "how would you know more than Rafa". It is mind boggling the kinds of responses you get on here.

And now what I am hearing on recent threads is even more ludicrous. "Oh we can't afford Eto, Villa, etc" as they are beyond our price range? Excuse me but is that what the buyout was for, so we stoped having this problem? So what does that mean? That Rafa will have to settle for just "good" players, the same "good" players that got us 3rd/4th this season and the same which will deliver us 3rd/4th next season. Unbelievable I tell you!

The problems on why weren't good enough are clearly evident:

* We lost too many games (due to our ability in scoring)
* We didn't score enough goals (all season) PERIOD!
* Our squad / youth players just aren't up to standard

Rafa knows this, the fans know this, so he just needs to work his magic and deliver us NUMBER 19.
"LIVERPOOL: 6 European Cups, 19 Domestic Titles, 3 UEFA Cups, 8 FA Cups, 9 League Cups and 4 European Super Cups and 1 Club World Championship

All other English clubs pale into insignificance!"
User avatar
eds
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:46 am

Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri May 18, 2007 6:59 am

Sabre wrote:1) There's not worse insult for a Spaniard than telling him his clueless about footbal.

well you know nothing about football.





ps before the god squad get involved i have heard this many times from sabres mouth directed towards me whilst at the same time making errors about football knowledge that a 6 year old english girl wouldnt make
112-1077774096
 

Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri May 18, 2007 7:04 am

i see the alonso argument has started in here as well now.

its obvious some people think the sun shines out of @rse no matter what while others are prepared to be honest and highlight when he has not performed to his earlier high standards.

no player can have a great game every game, its just not possible, the same has to be said of alonso, he hasnt become a bad player, just not performing to the standard of his first 2 seasons here. that can be said for a lot of players here.

the reason the alonso rumours started was was because alonos was basically dropped in favout of masherano and then forced to play with the second string 11 towards the ned of the season.

maybe there is something in that and maybe there isnt. but i wouldnt say our poor season is down to alonso poor performances only, he had a lot of healp from other players underperforming and other players who just are not good enough
112-1077774096
 

Postby 66-1112520797 » Fri May 18, 2007 7:12 am

i see the alonso argument has started in here as well now


Oh ............ FFS !





I'm gonna get my coat. :D
66-1112520797
 

Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri May 18, 2007 7:15 am

Bamaga man wrote:
i see the alonso argument has started in here as well now


Oh ............ FFS !





I'm gonna get my coat. :D

:D
112-1077774096
 

Postby bigmick » Fri May 18, 2007 8:46 am

To be honest, the thread had been dead for two days until Eds breathed new life into it with his excellent post. In that post he doesn't mention Alsonso (although I can't be ersed to go back and check, I'm on a roll now and the fecking computer will probably delete what I've already written if I scroll back a page) so the only person re-starting that argument is your good self Peewee. That said, if people can find new perspectives to debate on the subject, along with the collective will to do so then go for it.
I don't know if it was directed at me the God squad bit, (if those that actually know me could read that they'd p!ss themselves) but whatever, if I could just make the request that during a new debate on Alonso people can refrain from falling out, then cool.
"se e in una bottigla ed e bianco, e latte".
User avatar
bigmick
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 12166
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: Wimbledon, London.

Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri May 18, 2007 8:57 am

ah yes,  hyperopia at its best, ignore all the snide remarks from one poster then jump on the poster who makes a comment back, good work mate

:D


and as for alonso, it was a light hearted comment as he is mentioned in point 4 in ivor the injuns post on the previous page, which also discusses masherano, and since that thread was locked because of a certain poster causing problems again the conversation may continue in here as i am sure new things will come to light about the alonso situation

:;):
Last edited by 112-1077774096 on Fri May 18, 2007 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
112-1077774096
 

Postby dawson99 » Fri May 18, 2007 9:00 am

Ok, dissapointing season?

What we seem to do at livepool is start slow, and speed up at the end. rafa likes his rotation policy to keep players fresh for the final run of the league. the problem we have is that by xmas we are already mroe ro less otu of it and altho we could win all games in the last 2 months by this point we are progressing ni the champs league/fa cup and concentrate more on this.

Somehow we need to find a way to get a quicker start to the season so that we can concentrate on the league (which is what all of us want anyways)

As for this season being a dissapointment...well if we win the champs league then it isnt...even if we dont, its not been the worst season. finsihed 3rd, champs league final... but we really need to be up there next season. Personally i wasnt happy with how we threw away games tofulham and charlton at the end but can see why we did. Lets just hope that by next xmas we are at the top of the league and have it all to fight for.
0118 999 881 999 119 7253
Image
User avatar
dawson99
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 25377
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:56 pm
Location: in the mo fo hood y'all

Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri May 18, 2007 9:07 am

dawson99 wrote:Somehow we need to find a way to get a quicker start to the season so that we can concentrate on the league (which is what all of us want anyways)

how about we take it seriously next year and look to win games as oppossed to looking to not lose against :censored: like sheffileld utd, that should work mate and keep us in the hunt
112-1077774096
 

Postby bigmick » Fri May 18, 2007 9:11 am

peewee wrote:ah yes,  hyperopia at its best, ignore all the snide remarks from one poster then jump on the poster who makes a comment back, good work mate

I've absolutely no idea if I'm guilty of that or not Peewee as I must be honest I don't know what hyperopia is. I'm guessing it means kind of only seeing bad in one person and not the rest maybe?

If so not guilty as I think everyone who is getting involved in spats on this forum at the moment should stop. There are three or four main protagonists who know full well who they are, and I wish they'd just get over it and post about football. Since I know from experience that some people on here don't like having their name mentioned in any capacity whatsoever, I will name only one of them, Sabre. I think he should stop getting involved in spats, and I think he should spend more of his energy posting about football because I like reading his points of view on the game. Come to that I like reading everybodies points of view on football by and large.

I assume that's who you meant when you said I ignored snide remarks from one poster? I do think sometimes in moments of wistfulness that maybe I should spend more time posting about football myself, never mind sabre.
"se e in una bottigla ed e bianco, e latte".
User avatar
bigmick
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 12166
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: Wimbledon, London.

Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri May 18, 2007 9:18 am

bigmick wrote:I will name only one of them, Sabre. I think he should stop getting involved in spats

:nod


here here, its about time someone other than the alleged protagonists came out and said that
112-1077774096
 

Postby bigmick » Fri May 18, 2007 9:20 am

peewee wrote:how about we take it seriously next year and look to win games as oppossed to looking to not lose against :censored: like sheffileld utd, that should work mate and keep us in the hunt

Boring, repeatitive but absolutely bang on the money. I really think that this is the crux of the whole problem. If Man Utd or Chelsea had fecked around with their team as much as we did in the first dozen games, they would have got a points total very similar to ours. It was Christmas before wqe sttarted to play with any fluency as our confidence got shot to pieces in thsoe first few weeks. Me and Peewee disagree about some things, but on this I think he is spot on.
"se e in una bottigla ed e bianco, e latte".
User avatar
bigmick
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 12166
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: Wimbledon, London.

PreviousNext

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 88 guests

  • Advertisement
ShopTill-e