Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:05 am

Liverpool have only conceded 5 goals in the 10 games when Mascherano has played. Thats very good mate, you cant argue with that surely?

Including 2 games against Chelsea, the 4-1 win against Arsenal and the 3-0 win away to PSV. So they wern't all easy games either.

by **66-1112520797** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:17 am

I disagree.

Watching Houllier's Liverpool at Anfield was like watching Benitez's more cautious lineups away at Old Shatford, Shatford Bridge and The Emerates.

Rafa gives Gerrard the freedom to go basically wherever he wants, and only now that we have Mascherano ASWELL as Alonso, can we finally see a real opportunity to play the 4-5-1 Rafa loves.

Under Houllier, Gerrard was a box-to-box midfielder, jumping into tackles every 2 minutes. Now, he's not.

THAT is the difference, and THAT is why you cannot compare Stevie and Hamann with him and Alonso.

It's like saying "A Mondeo is better than a Ferrari with a trailer on the back."

Hamann was helped by Gerrard, whereas 9 times out of 10, Alonso is hindered by Gerrard's inability to choose when to go and when to stay.

Thing is - how many times was Hamann exposed by Gerrard under Houllier? Hardly ever, as Gerrard simply did not roam anywhere near as much.

Now, the lad (quite rightly, I have to say), has been instructed to go forward more often, but it's the timing he still hasn't fully grasped.
(And one performance against Sh*tski doesn't mean Mascherano solves it all - for my money Xabi's heroics against Juventus and Sh*tski away in 2005 where far, far better.)

How many times did Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man United, Sh*tski, and a whole host of other top European clubs ever come in with serious interest for Hamann? I take it all these top managers of top, rich teams were all wrong, too? These were the competitors we faced for Xabi's signature.
Who fought us for Hamann's? Oh, that's right...

Diddy was a fantastic servant to this club, and I shall always have nothing but praise for the lad, but to suggest he was ever as good as Xabi really boggles my mind. He was solid and dependable, but he didn't dictate the tempo, he didn't have killer passes, I think he scored about 5 goals in his entire time here, and, let's not forget, he was replaced by Xabi instantly. I take it Rafa was wrong, too?

Regarding Xabi's none-start against Sh*tski - didn't Gerrard get dropped in the first CL away match this season vs PSV? I take it he was getting usurped by Zenden, then?

One game, where Xabi was obviously knackered, means Rafa's getting shut? Didn't he come on and take a penalty, then? Where was Mascherano then? Kuyt's perfectly good goal in extra time was as a result of Xabi's impetus - something that would never have happened if he weren't on the pitch. Little things make big differences.

I take it you totally missed Mascherano's f*cking pathetic play Vs Charlton, where he gifted them the opener, and could have caused another 2? That's ok, though, I suppose, 'cos he's not Xabi...

How about his woeful passes, doing his best to imitate Sissoko? Again, though - people only see what they want to see.

I'm guessing the impact Alonso had when he came on on Sunday surpassed you, too?

Oh, and Xabi is a holding midfielder with the ABILITY to playmake.

If he were a playmaker, he wouldn't control the tempo, dictate the play, tackle, track back or stay back at corners...

So you can admit that Benitez' approach is cautious away to the other big three. Well then you should be able to admit that we alot of the times huff and puff to beat the smaller teams at Anfield. Not always pleasing on the eye, but a more pragmatic approach.

Under Houllier, Gerrard was a box-to-box midfielder, jumping into tackles every 2 minutes. Now, he's not.

What so he's not now ! He's completely changed, do me a favour. Did you see him at home to Chelsea earlier this season in the middle of the park, flying into tackles looking like the Stevie of old. I'm sorry but Stevie G is still a box to box midfielder naturally. He's best at that, IMO he shouldnt have the free role. Down to Rafa, but I think he should give him back his old 'Roy Keane' role, to that who he was once compared and is the best box to box midfielder in England still by a country mile.

It's like saying "A Mondeo is better than a Ferrari with a trailer on the back."

No its not.

Hamann was helped by Gerrard, whereas 9 times out of 10, Alonso is hindered by Gerrard's inability to choose when to go and when to stay.

Why is that then, why was Hamman helped ?

What because he was instructed to, maybe Rafa shouldnt let Gerrard roam so much. Afterall there supposed to work as a partnership through the middle. I cant see how you can blame Gerrard for something that the manager is obviously implementing. Roaming forward more, Stevie never did that with Hamman as much and maybe thats why it worked better, but Stevie was still able to support and score goals, as an authordox box2box mid.

How many times did Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man United, Sh*tski, and a whole host of other top European clubs ever come in with serious interest for Hamann? I take it all these top managers of top, rich teams were all wrong, too? These were the competitors we faced for Xabi's signature.
Who fought us for Hamann's? Oh, that's right...

How many times have those same clubs come in for Hyypia and Carragher, by your silly recogning Carragher and Hyypia are useless and invaluable to us because those big guns havent been sniffing around for
them. :laugh:

Diddy was a fantastic servant to this club, and I shall always have nothing but praise for the lad, but to suggest he was ever as good as Xabi really boggles my mind. He was solid and dependable, but he didn't dictate the tempo, he didn't have killer passes, I think he scored about 5 goals in his entire time here, and, let's not forget, he was replaced by Xabi instantly. I take it Rafa was wrong, too?

No Rafa wasnt wrong, Hamman was getting on a bit and needed to be replaced eventually. Infact Hamman could of stayed on but chose to move on for more football. Same with Hyypia really as Agger is coming in, players get old mate, and become less fit so they need to be replaced.

I take it you totally missed Mascherano's f*cking pathetic play Vs Charlton, where he gifted them the opener, and could have caused another 2? That's ok, though, I suppose, 'cos he's not Xabi...

No I didnt miss that, but I've seen alot of our players this season make mistakes, namely Pepe at the beginning of the season. Mascha miss placed some bad balls, so has Alonso but we're not allowed to say nowt about your goldern boy. One thing I must say mate, is that I think you totally overtate Alonso and wont here of anything slightly critical against him.

Alonso is a 'deep-lying-plamaker' like Pirlo or Carrick to a sh.ittier extent.

A holding mid is someone like , Makelele, Hamman or Even Nicky Butt.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:32 am

s@int wrote:Liverpool have only conceded 5 goals in the 10 games when Mascherano has played. Thats very good mate, you cant argue with that surely?

Including 2 games against Chelsea, the 4-1 win against Arsenal and the 3-0 win away to PSV. So they wern't all easy games either.

That's very well, but Alonso started all but the Sh*tski home of those games, and was not subbed in any either.

Don't forget that Mascherano only played 50 minutes more of the Sh*tski game than Xabi did, which IMHO is purely because Xabi is f*cked.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:37 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:Liverpool have only conceded 5 goals in the 10 games when Mascherano has played. Thats very good mate, you cant argue with that surely?

Including 2 games against Chelsea, the 4-1 win against Arsenal and the 3-0 win away to PSV. So they wern't all easy games either.

That's very well, but Alonso started all but the Sh*tski home of those games, and was not subbed in any either.

Don't forget that Mascherano only played 50 minutes more of the Sh*tski game than Xabi did, which IMHO is purely because Xabi is f*cked.

The point I was making was Mascherano played the defensive midfielder in ALL those games. The excuse for Xabi playing bad was that he had to play too far forward.

by **66-1112520797** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:41 am

s@int wrote:Good post Bamaga

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:49 am

Bamaga man wrote:
s@int wrote:Good post Bamaga

I just hope Rafa doesnt go out and buy another midfielder or there will be open warfare on here

by **66-1112520797** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:51 am

s@int wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
s@int wrote:Good post Bamaga

I just hope Rafa doesnt go out and buy another midfielder or there will be open warfare on here

FFS !!! I hope not too

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:12 am

Bamaga man wrote:
I disagree.

Watching Houllier's Liverpool at Anfield was like watching Benitez's more cautious lineups away at Old Shatford, Shatford Bridge and The Emerates.

Rafa gives Gerrard the freedom to go basically wherever he wants, and only now that we have Mascherano ASWELL as Alonso, can we finally see a real opportunity to play the 4-5-1 Rafa loves.

Under Houllier, Gerrard was a box-to-box midfielder, jumping into tackles every 2 minutes. Now, he's not.

THAT is the difference, and THAT is why you cannot compare Stevie and Hamann with him and Alonso.

It's like saying "A Mondeo is better than a Ferrari with a trailer on the back."

Hamann was helped by Gerrard, whereas 9 times out of 10, Alonso is hindered by Gerrard's inability to choose when to go and when to stay.

Thing is - how many times was Hamann exposed by Gerrard under Houllier? Hardly ever, as Gerrard simply did not roam anywhere near as much.

Now, the lad (quite rightly, I have to say), has been instructed to go forward more often, but it's the timing he still hasn't fully grasped.
(And one performance against Sh*tski doesn't mean Mascherano solves it all - for my money Xabi's heroics against Juventus and Sh*tski away in 2005 where far, far better.)

How many times did Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man United, Sh*tski, and a whole host of other top European clubs ever come in with serious interest for Hamann? I take it all these top managers of top, rich teams were all wrong, too? These were the competitors we faced for Xabi's signature.
Who fought us for Hamann's? Oh, that's right...

Diddy was a fantastic servant to this club, and I shall always have nothing but praise for the lad, but to suggest he was ever as good as Xabi really boggles my mind. He was solid and dependable, but he didn't dictate the tempo, he didn't have killer passes, I think he scored about 5 goals in his entire time here, and, let's not forget, he was replaced by Xabi instantly. I take it Rafa was wrong, too?

Regarding Xabi's none-start against Sh*tski - didn't Gerrard get dropped in the first CL away match this season vs PSV? I take it he was getting usurped by Zenden, then?

One game, where Xabi was obviously knackered, means Rafa's getting shut? Didn't he come on and take a penalty, then? Where was Mascherano then? Kuyt's perfectly good goal in extra time was as a result of Xabi's impetus - something that would never have happened if he weren't on the pitch. Little things make big differences.

I take it you totally missed Mascherano's f*cking pathetic play Vs Charlton, where he gifted them the opener, and could have caused another 2? That's ok, though, I suppose, 'cos he's not Xabi...

How about his woeful passes, doing his best to imitate Sissoko? Again, though - people only see what they want to see.

I'm guessing the impact Alonso had when he came on on Sunday surpassed you, too?

Oh, and Xabi is a holding midfielder with the ABILITY to playmake.

If he were a playmaker, he wouldn't control the tempo, dictate the play, tackle, track back or stay back at corners...

So you can admit that Benitez' approach is cautious away to the other big three. Well then you should be able to admit that we alot of the times huff and puff to beat the smaller teams at Anfield. Not always pleasing on the eye, but a more pragmatic approach.

Under Houllier, Gerrard was a box-to-box midfielder, jumping into tackles every 2 minutes. Now, he's not.

What so he's not now ! He's completely changed, do me a favour. Did you see him at home to Chelsea earlier this season in the middle of the park, flying into tackles looking like the Stevie of old. I'm sorry but Stevie G is still a box to box midfielder naturally. He's best at that, IMO he shouldnt have the free role. Down to Rafa, but I think he should give him back his old 'Roy Keane' role, to that who he was once compared and is the best box to box midfielder in England still by a country mile.

It's like saying "A Mondeo is better than a Ferrari with a trailer on the back."

No its not.

Hamann was helped by Gerrard, whereas 9 times out of 10, Alonso is hindered by Gerrard's inability to choose when to go and when to stay.

Why is that then, why was Hamman helped ?

What because he was instructed to, maybe Rafa shouldnt let Gerrard roam so much. Afterall there supposed to work as a partnership through the middle. I cant see how you can blame Gerrard for something that the manager is obviously implementing. Roaming forward more, Stevie never did that with Hamman as much and maybe thats why it worked better, but Stevie was still able to support and score goals, as an authordox box2box mid.

How many times did Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man United, Sh*tski, and a whole host of other top European clubs ever come in with serious interest for Hamann? I take it all these top managers of top, rich teams were all wrong, too? These were the competitors we faced for Xabi's signature.
Who fought us for Hamann's? Oh, that's right...

How many times have those same clubs come in for Hyypia and Carragher, by your silly recogning Carragher and Hyypia are useless and invaluable to us because those big guns havent been sniffing around for
them.

Diddy was a fantastic servant to this club, and I shall always have nothing but praise for the lad, but to suggest he was ever as good as Xabi really boggles my mind. He was solid and dependable, but he didn't dictate the tempo, he didn't have killer passes, I think he scored about 5 goals in his entire time here, and, let's not forget, he was replaced by Xabi instantly. I take it Rafa was wrong, too?

No Rafa wasnt wrong, Hamman was getting on a bit and needed to be replaced eventually. Infact Hamman could of stayed on but chose to move on for more football. Same with Hyypia really as Agger is coming in, players get old mate, and become less fit so they need to be replaced.

I take it you totally missed Mascherano's f*cking pathetic play Vs Charlton, where he gifted them the opener, and could have caused another 2? That's ok, though, I suppose, 'cos he's not Xabi...

No I didnt miss that, but I've seen alot of our players this season make mistakes, namely Pepe at the beginning of the season. Mascha miss placed some bad balls, so has Alonso but we're not allowed to say nowt about your goldern boy. One thing I must say mate, is that I think you totally overtate Alonso and wont here of anything slightly critical against him.

Alonso is a 'deep-lying-plamaker' like Pirlo or Carrick to a sh.ittier extent.

A holding mid is someone like , Makelele, Hamman or Even Nicky Butt.

Hmmm...

Any manager with an ounce of knowledge is cautious away to the big guns - incase you haven't noticed, even that whiskey-nosed jock b*stard came for a draw at Anfield the last 2 seasons.

At home to the ale-house teams we struggle purely because we haven't got Kewell, Garcia and a decnet striker on the pitch to unlock and punish teams that have 11 men behind the ball for 90 minutes.

No, Gerrard is not a box-to-box midfielder as that is not what he's doing now. One match against Sh*tski is hardly a marker for his role throughout the past 3 seasons.
He gets all het-up for the big games, then mellows against the sh*te sides.
Naturally, he's a complete midfielder. He can do everything except dictate the play and tempo. Box to box? Yes, he can do it, but that's not what he IS doing, hence he is no longer a b-to-b midfielder.

The car analogy was quite accurate I feel - you're comparing 2 cars, but hindering one with a trailer. This is essentially the same.

Saying Rafa shouldn't let Gerrard roam as much is hardly cause for suggesting that Mascherano is a better player than Alonso, now, is it?
When Rafa took charge, Stevie was a top player. Now, under Rafa's stewardship, he's truely World Class in the free role, but he will never be a World Class central midfielder, as he doesn't have the ability to read the game, thus he often leaves his partner exposed unless otherwise instructed.
Tell me again where he won the PFA player of the year award? Was it central midfield? No. Has he won that award before or since, despite occupying a central berth for the vast majority of that time? Nope, didn't think so...

I think you will find Barca, AC Milan, Juventus and Inter all enquired about Hyypia not too long ago, and I seem to remember Carragher quashing such rumours when asked if he'd leave LFC by saying "Who's bigger than Liverpool FC?" It's always best not to put words in my mouth.

RE Hamann's replacement - if he was THAT good, surely he'd have played more games previous to that?

Re: Mascherano's mistakes VS Charlton:

I don't mind anyone criticising Xabi when he deserves it. What I mind is when a load of b*llocks gets thrown in his direction when he is, in fact, a f*c king superb player who we are very lucky to have. THAT's what f*cks me off.

Xabi is a holding Midfielder who happens to be able to play different roles, and happens to be the best passer of the ball this club has seen since Jan Molby. If he were a deep-lying playmaker, he would not sit back at corners, he would not cover the attacking fullbacks, he would not protect the back four, he would not be one of the main men defending set-pieces, he would not cover for the centrebacks when they're marauding forward, he would not play the simple pass that gets the entire team out of trouble, he would not intercept passes, he would not tackle the opposition more than any other player in the team. (I'm sure if you check the stats, this will be proven.)

A deep-lying playmaker simple picks th ball up and passes it to a more advanced player. If you think that this is all Xabi does, then God help you.

Makelele is an anchorman/holding mid. He does nothing but break up attacks and square it to the nearest player.

I don't really care if anyone thinks I overrate Xabi. I think the lad is superb, and I personally think some people are f*cking blind and/or thick not to see the utter class the lad has got.

Shameful, really.

by **Sabre** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:12 am

Erm. *cough*

Bamagaman, S@int: Surprisingly you both agree in the concept that Alonso is a deep-lying-playmaker.

Excuse me but that's unknown to me. Each country has ways to name positions and players, and slightly different words to describe players. Would you be so kind to explain a foreigner what's that role about?

So far I've learnt that "it's a rol in which the player is deep-lying" and "he has extra defensive duties". And for what I see in Alonso I add "he also makes covers when one of the back players go up".

So, please enlighten me in this point, without comparing him to Carrick, but explaining me the rol. That concept is completely new to me.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:15 am

s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:Liverpool have only conceded 5 goals in the 10 games when Mascherano has played. Thats very good mate, you cant argue with that surely?

Including 2 games against Chelsea, the 4-1 win against Arsenal and the 3-0 win away to PSV. So they wern't all easy games either.

That's very well, but Alonso started all but the Sh*tski home of those games, and was not subbed in any either.

Don't forget that Mascherano only played 50 minutes more of the Sh*tski game than Xabi did, which IMHO is purely because Xabi is f*cked.

The point I was making was Mascherano played the defensive midfielder in ALL those games. The excuse for Xabi playing bad was that he had to play too far forward.

He was also subbed off a couple of times, too.

But this is what I don't understand - you're saying Xabi was played further up the field, yet Bamaga reckons he's a deep-lying playmaker.

Something doesn't fit there...You see, if he were simply a playmaker, he could do that higher up the pitch...

See what I mean?

by **112-1077774096** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:24 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:I don't really care if anyone thinks I overrate Xabi. I think the lad is superb, and I personally think some people are f*cking blind and/or thick not to see the utter class the lad has got.

Shameful, really.

can someone point me to the post where one of us said alonso wasnt class, or alonso is sh!t, i must have missed it. I am sure all thats been said is this season he hasnt been up to the high standards he has been previously

anyone who just puts blind faith in something even when its not quite right is blind/or thick.

we can all make ourselves sound forceful mate, no need for that comment really because we have slightly different opinions on one of our players, we are not even saying to get rid of him.

it comes to something when our fans are ready to accept poor performances, this is not about alonso now, this is about the sh!t excuses that we have had to read on here week after week when we look like a big pile of poo against teams that should be thanking god for just being on the same pitch as us.

however people want to dress this up, we have failed for nearly 20 years, 20 years guys and people are still finding excuses, oh its the world cup, oh we have to integrate new players, oh the players are tired, oh we dont have the money, oh players dont want to come here, oh chelsea are pricing everyone out of the market.

:no

by **66-1112520797** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:37 am

Makelele is an anchorman/holding mid. He does nothing but break up attacks and square it to the nearest player.

Xabi is a holding Midfielder who happens to be able to play different roles, and happens to be the best passer of the ball this club has seen since Jan Molby. If he were a deep-lying playmaker, he would not sit back at corners, he would not cover the attacking fullbacks, he would not protect the back four, he would not be one of the main men defending set-pieces, he would not cover for the centrebacks when they're marauding forward, he would not play the simple pass that gets the entire team out of trouble, he would not intercept passes, he would not tackle the opposition more than any other player in the team. (I'm sure if you check the stats, this will be proven.)

You've just written Makelele is an anchorman and breaks up the play and nothing else. Then you've gone on to write a tidy paragraph on how great Alonso is. Thats exactly what makelele does. :laugh:

I'm not going to go down the gerrard thing. Well ........... Gerrard is a central midfielder true to form. Better there than anywhere else. Better even if he was deployed back to HIS box2box role. What did he win PFA player the season last year playing wide right. Didnt work though this year did it, oh thats right he was sulking out wide and hrowing tantrums, ah well when he moved back to the middle the team picked up points and went on a run.
I believe he is at his best when playing box2box, he might not be doing that now, but thats my opinion on him.

Also Gerrard isnt "truly World class" in the free role. Kaka is Zidane is Gerrard isnt. Perfect example of this was when we played Boro at home this season. Gerrard played in the free role, we couldnt score, as usual we huffed and puffed. Gerrard was dropped deeper (midfield) and then sprang up with a thunderous goal. Gerrard is a World class central midfielder, not a world class free roller.

If you can appreciate the things Xabi does then you'd also aprecaite the things Mascha and Hamman do Hamman more notably, he was world class IMO in that holding role.

Carragher warned of saying whos bigger than LFC. I didnt know that meant Milan, Barca, Bayern or Real had put in a huge offer. I also didnt know that Liverpoool had recieved offers for Hyypia thats news to me I'd like to see the quotes.

A deep lying midfielder would do those things you mentioned, S@int said it well. If he was lying deep just spraying balls around, I highly doubt he'd be worth his place in the team. So because he's asked to sit deep where he has time on the ball to dictate a game, he's also asked to protect the back four also.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:44 am

First off Lando, no one was calling Alonso, the worst anyone said was that he has had a poor season compared to previous ones. He struggles when he has to play further forward because he is slow mate , thats why he is a deep lying playmaker. He picks the ball up from the defence and gets the team moving with his (usually) sublime passes.

What he can't do is cover the defence in the same way Hamann or Mascherano can, which is why they can play in a two with Gerrard. When Alonso plays with Gerrard we always look vulnerable, unless we have Sissoko, Hamann or Mascherano there as well. Kaka ripped Liverpool a new a$$hole first half, I am not saying it was Alonso's fault but he needed someone to help him. Gerrard was off doing what Gerrard does best and Alonso needed help. Hamann came on and Kaka disappeared, I am not saying it was all down to Hamann either.

If Alonso could play in a pair with Gerrard don't you think they would have been playing regularly as a pair? How often has Rafa played them together without defensive support from Hamann, Sissoko or Mascherano?
He usually DOESNT. He will happily play Gerrard and Hamann or Mascherano. Just as you never see Rafa play Sissoko and Gerrard as a pair.

But no one is saying Alonso is cr@p or even that he is not a good player.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:46 am

peewee wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I don't really care if anyone thinks I overrate Xabi. I think the lad is superb, and I personally think some people are f*cking blind and/or thick not to see the utter class the lad has got.

Shameful, really.

can someone point me to the post where one of us said alonso wasnt class, or alonso is sh!t, i must have missed it. I am sure all thats been said is this season he hasnt been up to the high standards he has been previously

anyone who just puts blind faith in something even when its not quite right is blind/or thick.

we can all make ourselves sound forceful mate, no need for that comment really because we have slightly different opinions on one of our players, we are not even saying to get rid of him.

it comes to something when our fans are ready to accept poor performances, this is not about alonso now, this is about the sh!t excuses that we have had to read on here week after week when we look like a big pile of poo against teams that should be thanking god for just being on the same pitch as us.

however people want to dress this up, we have failed for nearly 20 years, 20 years guys and people are still finding excuses, oh its the world cup, oh we have to integrate new players, oh the players are tired, oh we dont have the money, oh players dont want to come here, oh chelsea are pricing everyone out of the market.

I'm sounding forceful because people don't want to listen as they've made their fickle f*cking minds up, so that's it. But I'll tell you this - I WILL be proved right.

Even if Xabi leaves, he will always be a better player (defensively and otherwise) than Mascherano, Hamann and Makelele. He's streets ahead of them past and present.

All f*cking season I've read utter b*llocks written by dull-witted gimps slagging our best player off for not hitting an 80-yard pass that or not managing to disposses someone in a 2 or 3-on-1 situation. People only see the event, rather than the build up to that event.
They see player X "miss-hitting" a pass to player Y, even though the pass was exactly where player Y asked for it to be delivered, only to change his run after the ball has been played.

They see Pepe conceding a goal, rather than the monumental f*ck up by the leftback (usually Riise) that caused it.

If it's not glaringly obvious, then it never happened in most peoples book on here. No, Gerrard wasn't out of position - it was all Xabi's fault for not being able to cover 2 players 20 yards apart.
Hyypia was W*nk one minute for letting someone go past him (who was, infact, the leftback's man), then he's the dogs b*llocks because Agger messed up.

"It was Agger's fault we conceded against Sh*tski in the CL", even though Riise was caught out of position, which meant Agger had to follow Drogba, leaving a gap that Carragher had to cover, and Arbeloa decided that sleeping was a better idea than defending and failed to notice Cole jink infront of him.

Look again... Who's fault? Riise's. It's a chain of events that began with John.

But why blame the real culprits when it's easier to play f*cking Catchphrase and say what you see?

Xabi has been holding this team together for the past 2 seasons, and now he's too f*cked to do it after nearly 2 years of solid football.
Fatigue drops your performance temporarily. Alonso will be back, then you'll all have to admit you were yakking out your sh*tboxes. (That's aimed at anyone who it refers to, but no-one specifically.)

THAT is why I am forceful, Peewee. Because there's a lot of people failing to appreciate the lad and the work he has put in, and a lot more spouting f*cking horse sh*t.

Give him a break you heartless b*stards.

by **Sabre** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:47 am

So it's a bit like a striker. A striker would be an "upfront lying attacking midfielder"?

Sorry for the joke, but where as everybody in the footwall world comments that Xabi ALonso is an exemplary holding midfielder, while Barcelona covets him for that position, and while Rafa said that until Mascherano Alonso was the only one to do the holding midfielder role, this deep-lying-playmaker concept has me troubled.

If you want to put it this way, explain me why Alonso IS NOT a holding midfielder. You mentioned before that Mascherano recovers sooner from a tackle he makes and has quicker feet (more or less) which is TRUE, and one of the few things in which he's better than Alonso. But, why do you discard Alonso as a holding midfielder? what features of his games makes you think this?

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