Liverpool FC Forum

by **babu** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:19 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:that was different mate, ferguson didnt engineer the move, he and van nistelrooy just fell out over allegedly van nistelrooys attitude to ronaldo.
remember v.nistelrooy and ronaldo having a punch up in training and remember van nistelrooy leaving old trafford before a live match shown on sky t.v to go home when he learnt he wasnt in the starting 11.
that incident embarresed ferguson no end because the camera`s were there to see ruud storm off in a huff.

Yeah there is that. To be honest i don't know much about the whole situation, but i thought it fit as an example.

by **Sabre** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:27 pm

kunilson wrote:thing with Alonso is that he has a good footballing brain. And i think that learning to be more intelligent about the game is a huge factor in developing as a player...
think about it, your skills can be improved but what you have won't be greatly improved over time(im talking initially after establishing yourself as a footballer, not as a youth), the WAY in which you use your strengths will....
Now for Alonso, he has learnt very quickly what his strengths are and how to improve his weaknesses, because he is clever in that way, i dont think he has peaked yet but he won't go on to improve THAT much when he peaks....if you get my drift....becuase i think he is the type of player who will be consistant over his career in terms of quality, confidence and such will give him better seasons than others.....but a different type of player will not be that great early on, but drastically improve because he will learn the game more because he wasn't as smart as ppl like alonso early on....

thats what i think, hope it makes sense

I see your point and I agree, I don't think his peak is that far away neither.

I'll complement what you say with a prediction, I think Xabi is the kind of footballer who'll be able to play footie lots of years, he's not explosive, he's not fast, and he's going to be able to do his stuff perfectly when he gets 32, IMHO. (just like other masters of his position like Donato or Mauro Silva the former Brazil squad player)

Of course time will tell.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 07, 2007 2:06 pm

I got the rumour off a mate, the same one who told me last year that Heighway had had a bust up with Benitez and would be leaving at Christmas. He got the bust up right, the leaving date wrong, but I was impressed anyway

. He has also been totally wrong on a couple of transfers but I can't remember which now.

I just think that everytime a player goes through a bad patch or perhaps doesn't quite reach the standard of previous years, rumours that would normally be dismissed out of hand become somehow more believable. Facts get twisted to fit the situation and we start to see things in their performance, body language etc that support the rumour not the truth.

Xabi in my opinion hasn't reached the standards this season that he set last season. This I believe is one of the reasons our season has been a disappointment. He was a vital part of the team last season mainly because if he didn't pass the ball who would, Momo? Thats not to say he hasn't played well this season, just not as well (for me anyway)as last season. I am sure he is probably as mystified and frustrated at his form as anyone. Which may explain the "body language" and the frequent "squaring up to opponents" previously mentioned. To be fair to Xabi in many games this season, quite a few of his team mates have performed much worse and received much less criticism ,maybe that shows the high regard we hold him in.

I no longer see selling Xabi as unthinkable, but I do believe its very unlikely.

by **Sabre** » Mon May 07, 2007 2:21 pm

Your post is fair as a whole S@int, but I'll pick a especific phrase I liked

To be fair to Xabi in many games this season, quite a few of his team mates have performed much worse and received much less criticism ,maybe that shows the high regard we hold him in.

I agree. And he's not the only one. IMHO Gerrard has been said to be below the standards more than one game in this season, and I think sometimes we lose the perspective. In my view, literally, Gerrard hasn't done a single poor game in the whole season. But since we're so USED TO his quality, we sometimes fall the trap of criticising when he isn't superb.

by **SuperScouser** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:05 pm

I think we shud sell Alonso next season we been offerd 10mil for him i would Take tht ..

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:33 pm

SuperScoucer wrote:I think we shud sell Alonso next season we been offerd 10mil for him i would Take tht ..

That is because you are a retard, and are too busy trying to lick your a*sehole to bother with watching or understanding football.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:50 pm

Top players have to live with much higher expectations. For example if Henry scores 15 goals in a season, he's had a bad season, for a lesser player it would be a great season.

Gerrard and Alonso have had poor seasons (perhaps a bit harsh) by their own high standards, thats not to say they have played poorly. Our expectations while perhaps unreasonable are set by how well we know they can play. One of the problems Xabi has is when his passing etc is off he can't make up for it as Gerrard can by hard running, charging around smashing into tackles, crashing in shots etc. Xabi is not the athelete that Gerrard is (Xabi also plays a more disciplined role) and hasn't the pace or mobility to offset any drop in performance in this way.

The one good thing is it shows just how well Mascherano has done in the short time since joining us! As with our strikers early last season, who would have thought it would be Morientes rather than Crouch who would be the failure.

by **LFC2007** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:57 pm

SuperScoucer wrote:I think we shud sell Alonso next season we been offerd 10mil for him i would Take tht ..

Alonso's agent speaking?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:02 pm

Rafa Benitez dropped Alonso for the Champions League semi-final against Chelsea, but how long will the Spaniard be prepared to sit on the bench? Meanwhile, Barcelona have a priceless commodity Liverpool would like to get their hands on.
Liverpool, if they let Alonso move to the Nou Camp, could work out a deal and jump to the head of the line for Eto'o I do not want Xabi Alonso to leave Anfield - he is one of the best midfielders in the world and if Liverpool are to truly compete for the Premiership title, they need two players in each position. If Steven Gerrard gets injured, there is no one that could fill his boots, but Alonso is as close as you will get.

Liverpool are at the dawn of a new era; cash is going to be made available to Rafa Benitez on a scale not seen before at the Merseyside club. He will be strenghtening all areas of the squad - but the positions with the most priority are the wings and up front. The flanks will be where the biggest transformation comes. I can actually see two players being bought, one for each wing, and these will not be players that have potential, but stars who have passed that stage of their career and are already able to compete at the highest level,

Jermaine Pennant and Mark Gonzalez will have to fight for their places in the starting line up with the new arrivals - and that is good, healthy competition for the club. Who these players are is anyone’s guess. The media give different names on any given day, but one thing is for sure: Rafa will bring players in to fix this Liverpool problem that has gone on for years.

But when we have two good natural wingers, where does that leave Gerrard? It means that his days on the wing are over and he is going to be playing in his natural position, central midfield - what Liverpool fans have been crying out for now for years.

The big question is who will play alongside Gerrard in this new-look Liverpool team. Most people would automatically say Alonso, but the Gerrard-Alonso combination has its problems. It’s a little bit similar to the England problem of Gerrard and Lampard, where people say they are too similar and cannot play together. Alonso and Gerrard have the same problem to a lesser degree, mainly because Alonso is a lot better player than Lampard and has learned to tackle and became tougher since he moved to Anfield.

There was no problem with the Alonso-Gerrard combination until Momo Sissoko arrived and then we saw how a real terrier such as Sissoko, with his tackles, breaking down play and non-stop running, helped our midfield performance. But with Sissoko, his distribution of the ball has got progressively worse, so lately there has not been much point playing him because as soon as he wins the ball he passes it straight back to the opposition!

However, the man Rafa picked to play alongside Gerrard in the Chelsea game has a mix of Alonso's and Sissoko`s talents. Javier Mascherano has it all - he can tackle, track back and even if his passes are not as visionary as Alonso's, he has the talent to spot the runs of the forwards and execute the pass.

It’s simple play but very effective and the plus of having a player that can do this but also tackle and break up play means it gives Gerrard the freedom to surge forward and be a menace to the other team - all the time knowing that Mascherano has his back covered but can also launch his own attack, given the opportunity.

It is no secret that Barcelona would love to sign Alonso, and it is also no secret that Benitez is a great admirer of Samuel Eto'o. He tried to sign him before Barcelona snapped him up. Because of Eto'o's relationship with Barca, all the top clubs in Europe will be interested in signing the Cameroon star this summer - but Liverpool, if they let Alonso move to the Nou Camp, could work out a deal and jump to the head of the line.

So, as unthinkable as it may seem, Mascherano is chosen as the best partner for Gerrard, as I think will happen, we have to ask ourselves what is better for Liverpool FC: a disgruntled Xabi Alonso sitting on the bench or Eto’o - in my opinion the best striker in the world - spreading fear among all Premiership defences.

Sportingo
link

More rumour surrounding Xabi

by **LFC2007** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:25 pm

Saint, a very good post btw.

I just have a couple of points.

1) Rafa has said he is trying to tie Alonso down to a long term contract, Alonso himself has said he wants to stay and in all likelihood I cannot see him moving anywhere in the near future.

2) Rumours about Etoo coming here in a deal that would see Alonso go in the other direction are wide of the mark in my opinion. If we're going to bring in Etoo it wouldn't be at the expense of Alonso, I think Rafa rates Alonso too highly to sanction this type of deal.

3) I agree with you about the winger situation, we need someone who is quality and is more experienced - not necessarily older.

4) The point about our central midfield combinations is valid. I would just point out that at some stage in the season each player will have a part to play i.e. we have a great deal of options there. I agree with you slightly about the Gerrard/Alonso combination, I don't think it's as incongruous as the Gerrard/Lampard combination is for England. Alonso is much more of a holding player, distributing the ball in all manner of ways and controlling the midfield. Lampard plays a more advanced role.

5) I agree with you about Mascherano and I think Alonso has a far greater range of passing. I'd also point out that in case of a dip in form, we have fantastic cover if any of our midfielders are underperforming, just as Sissoko has been recently.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:28 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Saint, a very good post btw.

I just have a couple of points.

1) Rafa has said he is trying to tie Alonso down to a long term contract, Alonso himself has said he wants to stay and in all likelihood I cannot see him moving anywhere in the near future.

2) Rumours about Etoo coming here in a deal that would see Alonso go in the other direction are wide of the mark in my opinion. If we're going to bring in Etoo it wouldn't be at the expense of Alonso, I think Rafa rates Alonso too highly to sanction this type of deal.

3) I agree with you about the winger situation, we need someone who is quality and is more experienced - not necessarily older.

4) The point about our central midfield combinations is valid. I would just point out that at some stage in the season each player will have a part to play i.e. we have a great deal of options there. I agree with you slightly about the Gerrard/Alonso combination, I don't think it's as incongruous as the Gerrard/Lampard combination is for England. Alonso is much more of a holding player, distributing the ball in all manner of ways and controlling the midfield. Lampard plays a more advanced role.

5) I agree with you about Mascherano and I think Alonso has a far greater range of passing. I'd also point out that in case of a dip in form, we have fantastic cover if any of our midfielders are underperforming, just as Sissoko has been recently.

You would say its a good post :down:

its not mine mate I just copied it

Thats why I put a link etc

by **LFC2007** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:37 pm

Oh?

Never mind.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:22 pm

Rubbish post, Saint...you can do much better, mate!

by **The Bench** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:56 pm

Not read the whole thread, sorry, but...............

Alonso is the most natural "footballer" we have. I believe that he is a favourite of benitez, and cos he was one of his earliest signings he sees him as a pivotal player in the masterplan.
Been said already many times that rafa likes 2 holding midfielders.

One of them has to be creative.
They both have to like a tackle.
One of them has to be able to do the unexpected from distance.

Xabi fits in to all these categories.

His biggest problem is that until mascherano arrived, he had no competition. He has now.

Watch the first half of the fulham game again, and you'll see he was the best player on the park by a mile. Even aftr the headbut, it didn't phase him. Still looking for the early ball, still looking for the right forward pass and still controlling the game. The fact he was lacking in options seems to be the main reason we lost.

Xabi Alonso has been here since 2005 and adapted brilliantly to the english game. While I agree this season has not been his best, many teams have already targeted him as the man to stop when playing against us. that says a lot about his ability.

He's here to stay, and as far as dangling him as a carrot for any other player we want to sign from spain thats bull :censored:

.

Get a decent right winger who can do the dirty yards that JP can't but SG can, and the Centre Mids we have are more than capable. Can see 2 from 3 of XA, JM, MO, with SG playing more in the hole, with two wingers and one striker. But hey what do I know.

But for any one to not see the quality we got for 10mil, is clearly dillusional.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:53 pm

I've only skated over a lot of this post, but anyone that thinks selling Alonso for anything less than world-beating money is off their f*cking nut.

I tore into the guy earlier in the season, but the bottom line is that he's one of the best players we have at the club. You don't assemble the most awe-inspiring quartet of central midfielders in football and then think about selling one of them.

To be honest, I think Rafa will either bench Alonso for the final, or else play 5 across the middle. Whichever way I look at it, Mascherano starts.

To be honest, my mouth absolutely drips when I think of a midfield five of Kewell, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Pennant. We've never seen it, and if Harry can get himself a little fitter in coming weeks, it could be a sight to see.

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