Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:13 pm

After a short but heated discussion lately on Xabi in another thread, I just wondered if the unthinkable might now be a possibility and Xabi might not even make the eleven for Athens.

Before anyone thinks I am having a go at him, rest assured I think he's one of our best players, just that the form of Mascherano, the improved form of Pennant, and the imminent return of H.Kewell may make team selection for the final "interesting" to say the least.

In my opinion Xabi's form this season has failed to reach the level of his previous 2 seasons at Anfield. This is backed up statistically. First season 6 assists 2 goals (He was out for a large part of the season) Second season 7 assists 3 goals , whereas this season he has only made 1 assist 3goals. (Maybe because we are playing with wingers?)

Surprisingly left out of last nights starting line up, after a poor display at Chelsea, was this a wakeup call, a sign that Rafa is looking elsewhere or just a tactical decision.

When on form he is undoubtedly one of our best players but this season his form hasn't reached the dizzy heights as often as previously and maybe just maybe he may need to pull his socks up quickly if he wants to make the starting lineup.

by **Rafa D** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:24 pm

For me to see him left out yesterday was a major shock. He's Rafa's golden boy and seemed to be untouchable.

It just goes to show how much of an impact Maschereno has made in his short stay with this club. Last year Gerrard was moved to the right of the midfield to accomadate Momo and Xabi in the middle. This year Maschereno has surpassed there standards so far and is pushing them out of first team contention.

Are they all willing to fight for their place in the team?

Its going to be very interesting and makes me feel very confident with the strength of our midfield.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:31 pm

Well, obviously I was one of the ones defending him this past week and I still contend he did not have a shocker at Stamford Bridge. Having said that, he hasn't had quite the same impact for us this season and I'm not sure if there's a simple answer as to why not. That's for another discussion, however, as I'm interested in why he didn't play from the start last night.

IMHO, it was largely a tactical decision by Rafa, aided by the strong form of Mascherano. I think that Rafa recognized that Stevie did not have enough impact from wide right against Chelsea at the Bridge. So, he made the decision to move him into central midfield. Now, I think many of us would have predicted a 4-5-1 in those circumstances but Rafa was brave and went 4-4-2. That meant that one of either Alonso or Mascherano would have to miss out (Sissoko, I'm sure, was still very much in the frame to play as well despite not being in peak form but I think Rafa really was looking for a midfield holder to partner Gerrard rather than a ball hunter). On current form, I think Rafa was right to go with Mascherano. Tactically it made sense too because Mascherano has greater recovery pace than Xabi, because he's even more inclined to stay deep when Gerrard gets forward than Xabi and because he's also very tidy on the ball when he does win possession. I've felt since we signed him that Mascherano and Alonso would ultimately be competing for the same spot in the starting line-up and I'm pleased to see Rafa implement that approach rather than be overly cautious with two holding midfielders in a game where we needed to chase a goal.

Having said that, there is definitely still a place for Alonso in this squad and I won't be the least bit surprised if Rafa opts for him in Athens. It will, of course, depend on who we play and what tactics the gaffer has in mind. But those (not you Saint, BTW) who think Alonso's days are numbered here are wide of the mark, IMO.

by **KOPMATT** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:33 pm

I was shocked to see him ommitted from the starting line up last night, but did feel that he had a poor game last week @ the bridge. Gave the ball away far too much. I'M NOT SLATING HIM BY ANY MEANS! On form he's awesome but have to agree with Rafa-Dodd that Mascherano has excelled all expectations and would love Xabi to stay and fight for his place, fantastic quality for midfield competion @ the club.

by **metalhead** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:33 pm

It really depends on who we play in the final! It depends on the tactics Rafa will do.

Maybe Rafa wants creativity in the line up, so he will include xabi alonso in there, or maybe (like always) he will play a cautious game by including mascherano.

I think if we meet AC Milan, He will definetly include Mascherano to close on Kaka!

by **Sabre** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:36 pm

I will give my opinion, read others' opinion, but won't enter a discussion, because it's a matter of how you see it.

IMHO he didn't play poorly in Stamford Bridge and was one of the best 3 men, unlike yesterday, who wasn't one of the best 3 men.

I know the lad since he played in Segunda "B" with 18 years, and I know his coach when he was 16. When I was asked in this forum here when he came, I said, "don't expect goals" from him. Not that he doesn't make them, he has quite a lot goals in his career, but that's not his game.

His best game is without the ball, he's in the correct spot almost always, and he has improved his tackling in England. He simply gets right every decission of when to tackle, and when to hold a player instead.

His goal stats mean not much to me, nor the "assists" if assist means final pass. He's a holding midfielder. A "volante". A defensive midfielder. His shots a la yesterday when he shot from range and Czec couldn't block it, are just a bonus of his game.

About his football attributes, well. They're obvious, his long balls are not only usually accurate but have a backwards curl effect that made them easily controlable. And not many players in the league are capable of shooting from his own side and scoring, let alone sending the ball over the sticks. You need a powerful leg for that.

He hasn't been as brilliant as yesteryear, but he has been good for our team, IMHO.

If you ask him goals and "final assists" to assess his game, then fair enough. But I disagree. He's a Hamman with bonus quality attributes in my book. I would never compare to Gerrard because they're a whole different story.

As for the not lining up against Chelsea at home, from the beginning, it was not shocking to me. Rafa picks the best men for his idea, and his idea was to attack from moment one to get an early goal. As many times, he got that right. The holding midfielder rol came handy later in the game. And he was good in that again, IMHO.

I'm worried sick though because Barcelona are willing to sign him up. Hope Rafa isn't tempted to sell him. BTW the kind of teams that are behind him speaks well about what's his level.

In the final? I accept bets, that he'll be on the starting eleven. I'd bet a tenner at least.

by **KOPMATT** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:42 pm

Well put Sabre, your not entering into a Discussion and I seldom bet! But your probably right!

by **Juanka** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:42 pm

Hi!

I think that this player is very nice because he has demostrated it in the Real Sociedad FC in Spain and in other matchs with your team!

PD, Sorry but my english is not very noce because i`m spanish and I am starting speaking your language :laugh:

by **Emerald Red** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:50 pm

metalhead wrote:It really depends on who we play in the final! It depends on the tactics Rafa will do.

Maybe Rafa wants creativity in the line up, so he will include xabi alonso in there, or maybe (like always) he will play a cautious game by including mascherano.

I think if we meet AC Milan, He will definetly include Mascherano to close on Kaka!

Spot on. He's the closest thing we have to a Hamman at the moment. If we do get Milan, the key is to keep Kaka quiet. Alonso, as good as a holding player he is, just might not be up to the task.

Edit - hmm, after a rethink, It's actually the other way round. I can see both starting, with Gerard on the right.

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:54 pm

I havent read the other posts apart from the topic starters and just want to say it didnt surprise me that Xabi was left out last night, i actually predicted it after he played against Pompey.
It was the right decision as well and i will tell you why, Xabi has struggled all seasons in the higher tempo games, the likes of the derby Man United and Chelsea away, the reason being is that you dont get time on the ball.
He has looked like he is really struggling when someone is closing him down the second the ball reaches his feet. It takes away his passing game. Mascherano also struggled a little last night in similar circumstances with a few of hos passes under pressure going awry, but generally in posession he moves the ball quicker than Xabi.
Xabi still has a massive part to play at the club and imo will start the final no matter who we play due to the fact that we wont be 1-0 down from the start and needing to force the pace, so Stevie will more than likely be back on the right with Javier and Xabi in the middle.

by **Sabre** » Wed May 02, 2007 4:55 pm

I havent read the other posts apart from the topic starters and just want to say it didnt surprise me that Xabi was left out last night, i actually predicted it after he played against Pompey.

Yes you did. So did S@int. Well spotted.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:04 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:I havent read the other posts apart from the topic starters and just want to say it didnt surprise me that Xabi was left out last night, i actually predicted it after he played against Pompey.
It was the right decision as well and i will tell you why, Xabi has struggled all seasons in the higher tempo games, the likes of the derby Man United and Chelsea away, the reason being is that you dont get time on the ball.
He has looked like he is really struggling when someone is closing him down the second the ball reaches his feet. It takes away his passing game. Mascherano also struggled a little last night in similar circumstances with a few of hos passes under pressure going awry, but generally in posession he moves the ball quicker than Xabi.
Xabi still has a massive part to play at the club and imo will start the final no matter who we play due to the fact that we wont be 1-0 down from the start and needing to force the pace, so Stevie will more than likely be back on the right with Javier and Xabi in the middle.

Personally I think that if Pennant maintains ,or possibly improves his form, Xabi's place is more dependent on whether we play 1 or 2 up front. i.e.
2 up :-
Reina
Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Pennant Gerrard Masherano Kewell(hopefully

)

Crouch Kuyt

1 UP

Reina
Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Pennant Alonso Masherano Kewell(hopefully

)
Gerrard
Kuyt

That of course is dependent on Pennants form and Kewell's magical recovery!

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:04 pm

Its simple, Rafa doesn't take into account form (look at Sissoko playing and Kuyt staying in the side without scoring for ages for proof) he picks the side from his assembled squad with the specific task of winnign that game and that game only. Cliche I know but he really does only take it one game at a time.

by **Ade** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:09 pm

I think it was a smart tactical ploy by Rafa, and Mascherano proved him right by nullifying Lampard. Most of Chelsea's strength comes down the middle, and Masch is clearly a defensive midfielder of top quality. (Mikel's gonna be a monster too, by the looks of it.) They were reduced to humping long balls to Drogba, cos they couldn't get through.

I also think Rafa wanted to send a signal to Xabi - you've got to step it up mate.

Not sure what he'll do if it's Milan in the final, as although Maldini is at walking pace these days he is the master, so do you play pacey but slightly dopey Pennant wide right? If so, it's Gerrard and Masch in the middle for me, Masch to manmark Kaka. Alternative is to play Gerrard on the right flank and go for Maldini, and Xabi slightly forward of Masch, who can mark Kaka?.

If it's the Mancs, it's Gerrard right, to put the frighterners up Giggs and go at Evra, plus Xabi and Masch in the middle.

Happy headaches. Just hope those Manc zhite don't luck it tonight. Milan would be a cracking final

by **Ade** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:11 pm

s@int wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:I havent read the other posts apart from the topic starters and just want to say it didnt surprise me that Xabi was left out last night, i actually predicted it after he played against Pompey.
It was the right decision as well and i will tell you why, Xabi has struggled all seasons in the higher tempo games, the likes of the derby Man United and Chelsea away, the reason being is that you dont get time on the ball.
He has looked like he is really struggling when someone is closing him down the second the ball reaches his feet. It takes away his passing game. Mascherano also struggled a little last night in similar circumstances with a few of hos passes under pressure going awry, but generally in posession he moves the ball quicker than Xabi.
Xabi still has a massive part to play at the club and imo will start the final no matter who we play due to the fact that we wont be 1-0 down from the start and needing to force the pace, so Stevie will more than likely be back on the right with Javier and Xabi in the middle.

Personally I think that if Pennant maintains ,or possibly improves his form, Xabi's place is more dependent on whether we play 1 or 2 up front. i.e.
2 up :-
Reina
Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Pennant Gerrard Masherano Kewell(hopefully )

Crouch Kuyt

1 UP

Reina
Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Pennant Alonso Masherano Kewell(hopefully )
Gerrard
Kuyt

That of course is dependent on Pennants form and Kewell's magical recovery!

Saint, do you really want Kewell playing in the final in 3 weeks time? He will not be match fit, and a half-fit Harry is like carrying a left-winger on a stretcher.

If he was fit, i'd love to see him there, but he won't be.

Not sure what the other lads would make of it either to see him 'arriving late' for the final.

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