Liverpool FC Forum

by **gato_busta** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:27 pm

Kuyt is a good player. Crouch and Bellamy are good players also. The thing is, they are the type of players that need a natural goal scorer to play next to them. Crouch is very good at holding the ball and getting the midfield into attack. Bellamy is good at breaking defenses with his pace and setting up attack. Kuyt, as all of us know, acts more like a fifth midfielder also bringing other players into attack. We have three strikers that assist other players.

Now correct me if im wrong but in Feyenoord he played as a striker from the left side on a 4-3-3 formation, putting him sort of in a left winger role. I only saw a couple of Feyenoord games, my best friend is an Ajax fan and in the games against them, Kuyt seemed brilliant. The thing is, he plays trying to assist others and taking advantage of the chances he gets. He might also be adjusting to play with only one striker next to him or in some cases, to be a lone striker. In liverpool he is working more that in Feyenoord, backtracking and starting from deeper in the field.

We need another striker and that is something I think we all agree on. We already have three strikers that can help a real predator, we only need that predator for them to show their best.

by **MillyLFC** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:29 pm

This is what i posted in another thread, but for the relivence of this one... read below;

Raffa (when he has a striker he rates highly) is renowned for playing with one up, a playmaking midfielder with ability to score (Gerrard) behind him and two high class wingers pushing on creating chances and chipping in with their fair share of goals. He then likes two defensive midfielders (Mascherano, Alonso) sitting, breaking up the play and dispatching to more advanced players. All these playing infront of a solid back four (which we already have) and a goalkeeper whose agile and has good concentration levels.
None of our current strikers fit in to this system, that is why i believe Raffa will go all out for a out and out world class striker.

by **Sabre** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:32 pm

gato_busta wrote:Kuyt is a good player. Crouch and Bellamy are good players also. The thing is, they are the type of players that need a natural goal scorer to play next to them. Crouch is very good at holding the ball and getting the midfield into attack. Bellamy is good at breaking defenses with his pace and setting up attack. Kuyt, as all of us know, acts more like a fifth midfielder also bringing other players into attack. We have three strikers that assist other players.

Now correct me if im wrong but in Feyenoord he played as a striker from the left side on a 4-3-3 formation, putting him sort of in a left winger role. I only saw a couple of Feyenoord games, my best friend is an Ajax fan and in the games against them, Kuyt seemed brilliant. The thing is, he plays trying to assist others and taking advantage of the chances he gets. He might also be adjusting to play with only one striker next to him or in some cases, to be a lone striker. In liverpool he is working more that in Feyenoord, backtracking and starting from deeper in the field.

We need another striker and that is something I think we all agree on. We already have three strikers that can help a real predator, we only need that predator for them to show their best.

Nice post Mr. Gato Busta. Nice to see you writting here again :;):

I agree completely that except for Bellamy. While I think he's a decent squad player, I don't think he's that good in what he does. Meaning, I wouldn't find many Kuyts in the Spanish league, but I could find a handful of Bellamies at least.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:39 pm

I do like Kuyt, but at the moment he's basically like a less prolific Heskey.

If he hones his radar for the goal next season, maybe he'll have a Drogba-style renaissance, but it's a huge leap we're talking about. Definitely give him another season to see if his goalscoring form comes, but if it's another season of hard graft with minimal goal return to show for it, the summer after this one is about as far as we can afford to go with the guy.

by **MillyLFC** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:50 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:I do like Kuyt, but at the moment he's basically like a less prolific Heskey.

If he hones his radar for the goal next season, maybe he'll have a Drogba-style renaissance, but it's a huge leap we're talking about. Definitely give him another season to see if his goalscoring form comes, but if it's another season of hard graft with minimal goal return to show for it, the summer after this one is about as far as we can afford to go with the guy.

So then, lets say for instance Raffa does go to his more prefered system of one up front with a playmaking, goalscoring midlielder roaming behind him.

Do you still believe that Kuyt should be given one more season as first choice striker ?

I myself do not believe he is the man to lead our frontline.

I do believe that he is a tryer who has a certain amount of ability but look at it this way;

Chelsea have Drogba/Shevchenko
Man U have Rooney
Arsenal have Henry
We have my friends, Dirk Kuyt.

It's clear we need to invest in a world class frontman. Then it's a case of Raffa choosing who he will sell, picking from Kuyt, Crouch and Bellamy.
Me, i'd keep Crouch for his awkwardness and the difference he brings
Id keep Bellamy for his speed and ability to worry defenders with his running into space.
That leaves Dirk. What does he bring ? Hard work. Not enough i'm afraid.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:55 pm

To be fair, the guy has come from the Dutch league, which is absolutely woeful at the moment. It's been a huge leap, and he has - as we've seen - taken to the physical side admirably well.

I think he can still turn out to be a really good player for us, but he's looked limited at times, and without goals from him it does look an awful lot like a sh*tload of running and challenging for absolutely f*ck all.

One more season is fair I think.

by **gato_busta** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:56 pm

Bellamy is a tricky one, he's the player that never lived up to his potential. One game that comes to mind is the 0-1 defeat to Manchester in Anfield. I thought he was brilliant in that game, he made the mancs defense look very vulnerable. If he could put that performance every week he would be in the starting 11 more often. Unfortunately for us, he does not put that performance very often and that is why he is a squad player at best. He is constantly caught offside and doesnt finish the chances he gets.

With that said I do think he would be much better with someone alongside him who would finish the chances. As Bellamy stated in an interviewat the beggining of the season, he wanted to copy Henry. Not in the fact that he scores many goals but that he assists more than any other striker around. I do think he could be great in breaking into the box then setting up the ball to a natural finisher to set it in as I don not see him as a natural finsher.

I agree with you sabre that there are many players like him around, but he is the only one we have in the team at the moment. He's one of the few players with a lot of pace that we have (the only other fast player that comes to mind is Gonzo but that is a whole other subject). Once we get that poacher, they will all seem better players. My choice would be Huntelaar as the guy seems brilliant and IMO very fowleresque.

by **MillyLFC** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:01 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:To be fair, the guy has come from the Dutch league, which is absolutely woeful at the moment. It's been a huge leap, and he has - as we've seen - taken to the physical side admirably well.

I think he can still turn out to be a really good player for us, but he's looked limited at times, and without goals from him it does look an awful lot like a sh*tload of running and challenging for absolutely f*ck all.

One more season is fair I think.

Is that as first choice or as a squad player ?

Do you not think we should spend a lump of money on a Villa, Eto'o type of player ?

I don't believe Kuyt can score the goals or add the finnese that is needed to win the premiership. Look at recent teams to have won it. They all have that type of player. They haven't won it with good tackling, hard working frontman, which is what Kuyt is.

by **MillyLFC** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:10 pm

Gato - i myself have heard great things about Huntalaar, but again he plays in a very poor dutch league. Can we risk another dud ?
I just feel we should go for a proven talisman, a player with finnese and vision.
For me, and it's been said a thousand times before, it has to be one of David Villa or Samuel Eto'o.
Then for me, we stand a chance, otherwise we will find ourselves again, chasing the top two by November, hoping that one of our strikers will eventually turn out to be as good as we want them to be.

by **gato_busta** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:36 pm

Well, at this point any player is a gamble really. Even if we were to bring Eto'o or Villa, there is no way of knowing if they will adjust to the phisical nature of english football. I especially doubt Eto'o could adjust, as he is always whining about something. In england, if its not the constant tackles he would recieve it would be Liverpool's weather or something.

Ive seen Huntelaar play and he is nothing like Kuyt. Sure, Kuyt was one of the top scorers in the league but he was behind Huntelaar in goal count. He was amazing the 2005-2006 season when he signed for Ajax. before signing for them, he had already scored 21 goals in 21 games for SC Heerenveen and then scored 24 goals in 25 games. Thats 45 goals in 46 games which is very impresive in any league, especially with a very weak Ajax last season. This season he already has 31 goals in 43 games. If we dont snap him up another team will, probably Juventus or another italian giant.

by **RichardLFC1** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:31 am

Never doubted the lad. Hes looked great in most if not all his games. But next season he should be up against the likes of Drogba and Rooney competing for the golden boot

by **babu** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:44 am

RichardLFC1 wrote:Never doubted the lad. Hes looked great in most if not all his games. But next season he should be up against the likes of Drogba and Rooney competing for the golden boot

I think its dangerous setting your expectations so high. I expect him to knock in more goals, but in the running for golden boot? nah.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:03 am

The point Leon has made about him dropping into midfield when we dont have the ball is imo the reason why the lad hasnt scored as many goals as we thought he might.
Its Rafa's tactics, he wants the team to be compact and difficult to break down when we havent got the ball.
Our strikers are sacrificed thats why Dirk is so deep in so many games and why Bellamy is often in wide positions rather than playing on the shoulder like Owen used to.
He (Kuyt) has had a difficult time in the middle part of the season where he has looked a little bit like he is someone with bags of effort but little ability, i really believe that was due to the way he was being asked to play.
When he came on away to Reading he was supported by Gerrard, allowing him to stay up top, the result was the winning goal.
Saturday again he played further forward and looked far more comfortable and far happier. If that continues he could easily be nearer the top scorers in all competitions.
Its all down to tactics though.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:21 pm

Interesting read...

by **RedBlood** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:41 pm

yes its very interresing :sleep

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